Begrudgery and the "09 Car" stigma

Piste

In the Irish Times hot or not (don't laugh!) today they had undr "not" the 09 car stigma, people being made almost ashamed of their 09 cars. I;ve noticed on boards people talk in a very begrudging tone about holiday homes and fancy cars and whatnot, so I'm wondering, do you begrudge people these things?

Begrudging is slightly different to feeling smug that they're getting their comeuppance for taking out a massive loan on a car and remortgaging their house to buy an appartment in Spain, do you actually feel that people shouldn't have these things?

For anyone who has an 09 car or holiday home, do you feel slightly stigmatised by it? Do you try not to mention it in company? Does it annoy you when you see various posts on boards saying "oh maybe people will have to sell their luxury home boo hoo"?

I'm sorry I can't think of concrete examples from boards of this begrudgery, if I see any (they're usually on After Hours) I'll post them up.

It annoys me a bit (I have neither ar not home- being 18) that people feel almost glad that other people have to give up the luxuries they've worked hard for.

aare

I've driven a mid range, '09 car around (not my own) a few times, including this evening, and I honestly haven't felt the smallest bit of 'tude...

I also, admittedly, haven't seen a whole lot of OTHER '09 cars...

mikemac

People begrudging isn't new, it's happened when times were good and it'll exist even now.
I don't think it'll increase, it'll only stay the same.

I don't know much about cars so I can't explain a 09 phemonem.
Though my moped is 08 and I don't think anyone is jealous of it.

I've seen very, very few 09 cars though.

Piste

I only made a distinction cos I was trying to stop people coming on saying "well it's their fault for taking out loans they couldn't possibly repay", begrudgery and smugness does tend to be mixed up together.

Birdie086

Begrudgery is a sad feature of Irish culture in my opinion. Its not my fault I was made redundant - the business ceased to operate just as its not others fault they still have good jobs and can afford the finer things ie new car etc. OK so I'm now on the dole, my sons father does not support him blah blah that is just my circumstances. To be honest I personally am glad to hear of someone being able to upgrade their car/holiday home/etc
Thats just me though, but I do hear what your saying. Recently a friend of mine was complaing about her job and I had to stop myself from saying 'you should be glad you have one'

mikemac

Birdie086 wrote: »

Recently a friend of mine was complaing about her job and I had to stop myself from saying 'you should be glad you have one'

In fairness, some people are bullied at work, some are overworked and it's normal for them to complain to their friends, hoping for someone to listen. Maybe they don't know what to do.

You can't use the lucky to have a job line to everyone.
Now I'm not saying you're not a good friend

Birdie086

You can't use the lucky to have a job line to everyone.
Now I'm not saying you're not a good friend [/quote]

Thats why I stopped myself. Its wasn't her fault she was having a rough few days at work. I was feeling down because I wasn't working. As I said earlier glad to see anyone getting on or in these times simply hanging on to what they have.

amacachi

Well I will say that the 09 drivers seem very mannerly compared with 08 and 07 drivers at the start of the last few years.

gcgirl

To be quite honest i have not seen many 09 Cars around, just a handfull really!!

aare

gcgirl wrote: »

To be quite honest i have not seen many 09 Cars around, just a handfull really!!

You would be really surprised how many '09 cars of similar color and model there actually are when you walk out of Tesco with a bursting bag and can't remember where you put the blessed thing...

gcgirl

aare wrote: »

You would be really surprised how many '09 cars of similar color and model there actually are when you walk out of Tesco with a bursting bag and can't remember where you put the blessed thing...

Hit the remote locking When you see the flashing lights your sorted!!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I see a few in our car park, and a good few in my dads work place, I say fair play and congrats to those who can afford it. Why should they feel ashamed for spending their money? It is their money after all, right?

I would love to be in a position to buy anything, let a lone a new car :P

aare

gcgirl wrote: »

Hit the remote locking When you see the flashing lights your sorted!!

I forgot that:o...like I said, it's not my car...and all I have of the remote control of my own beloved "batteredmobile" is a legend that it will come back when the Sons of Erin are in their darkest hour...which won't be until at LEAST next Friday...

aare

Renee Quiet Yo-yo wrote: »

I see a few in our car park, and a good few in my dads work place, I say fair play and congrats to those who can afford it. Why should they feel ashamed for spending their money? It is their money after all, right?

I would love to be in a position to buy anything, let a lone a new car :P

Exactly...why envy anyone anything? The one I got to drive belongs to a pensioner who saved up since '99 to buy it, cash...

gcgirl

A few friends are downgrading the jeeps and getting cars !! I never actually think people would be singing tha praises of a 1.1 over a 2ltr!!

gcgirl

aare wrote: »

Exactly...why envy anyone anything? The one I got to drive belongs to a pensioner who saved up since '99 to buy it, cash...

I was mildly envious of a friend bring up a 120,000 lexus to training one night but it was sex on wheels:p

aare

gcgirl wrote: »

I was mildly envious of a friend bring up a 120,000 lexus to training one night but it was sex on wheels:p

Ah but I think that is more of an *emotional* than a *material* issue really, isn't it?

gcgirl

aare wrote: »

Ah but I think that is more of an *emotional* than a *material* issue really, isn't it?

Words cannot describe it !! As a friend of mine would have put it '' I think i just came on my keyboard'' moment:D totally Emotional !!

jprender

No begrudgery at all from me.

fair play to you if you want something new and shiny and can afford it. I have loved buying a new car in the past. I wouldnt do it again though, regardless of affordability.

I just dont think it is a clever move though when you consider how quickly a car depreciates and couple that with the value there is to be had in used cars.



ps, where are all the begrudgers ??

seanybiker

op i actually didnt read all your post i just read until ya said do people have a problem with 09 cars.
I have been somewhat poor since before the recession and am still the same now. I love the recession. The amount of my street that bought new cars every year and got stuff done to their houses is funny cos now they are paying it off and dont have the money. Its not the government that messed it up it was us irish trying to be better than others around us. Nobody saved . I am so happy people are like me now. I have enough money to keep my bike on the road and pay tax etc. Same as always but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed. Best thing ever to happen in my opinion.

NewDubliner

Piste wrote: »

In the Irish Times hot or not (don't laugh!) today they had undr "not" the 09 car stigma, people being made almost ashamed of their 09 cars. I;ve noticed on boards people talk in a very begrudging tone about holiday homes and fancy cars and whatnot, so I'm wondering, do you begrudge people these things?

It depends on the circumstances. Clearly anyone who buys a new car when there's such good value and quality on the second-hand market has money to burn.

I was cycling home from work on Thursday when, I got cut up by an large blue-coloured 09 SUV which barged out of the Dept of Environment's offices at the Custom House and blocked one lane of traffic while trying to force his way into another. If the window had been down, the civil servant driving it would've had my economic advice for free.

jprender

seanybiker wrote: »

op i actually didnt read all your post i just read until ya said do people have a problem with 09 cars.
I have been somewhat poor since before the recession and am still the same now. I love the recession. The amount of my street that bought new cars every year and got stuff done to their houses is funny cos now they are paying it off and dont have the money. Its not the government that messed it up it was us irish trying to be better than others around us. Nobody saved . I am so happy people are like me now. I have enough money to keep my bike on the road and pay tax etc. Same as always but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed. Best thing ever to happen in my opinion.

Ah, here they come !!

Hobbes

After wandering into a dealers a few days ago getting an 09 car is a lot less painful then getting an 08 car last year. The dealers are hurting and offering insane discounts/trade-ins then ever before.

The only issue I have with 09 cars (or any 96-98 or earlier) is that they tend to be driven by people who seem to not have fully grasped how to drive. Statistically that is.

bauderline

seanybiker wrote: »

op i actually didnt read all your post i just read until ya said do people have a problem with 09 cars.
I have been somewhat poor since before the recession and am still the same now. I love the recession. The amount of my street that bought new cars every year and got stuff done to their houses is funny cos now they are paying it off and dont have the money. Its not the government that messed it up it was us irish trying to be better than others around us. Nobody saved . I am so happy people are like me now. I have enough money to keep my bike on the road and pay tax etc. Same as always but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed. Best thing ever to happen in my opinion.

.... The gas thing is that the people you are scoffing at will by and large get over their current issues in the next 2,3,4,5 years max.... as will the banks... as will the markets... as will the governments... and you'll be still riding around on your clapped out bike...

Princess Jade

aare wrote: »

You would be really surprised how many '09 cars of similar color and model there actually are when you walk out of Tesco with a bursting bag and can't remember where you put the blessed thing...

Very true:)


/heads off whistling innocently .........

seanybiker wrote: »

but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed.

Not true dahling It's the latest fad. Are you not keeping up with what is hot and wot is not?

holly1

seanybiker wrote: »

op i actually didnt read all your post i just read until ya said do people have a problem with 09 cars.
I have been somewhat poor since before the recession and am still the same now. I love the recession. The amount of my street that bought new cars every year and got stuff done to their houses is funny cos now they are paying it off and dont have the money. Its not the government that messed it up it was us irish trying to be better than others around us. Nobody saved . I am so happy people are like me now. I have enough money to keep my bike on the road and pay tax etc. Same as always but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed. Best thing ever to happen in my opinion.

Well thats begrudgery if I ever heard it:rolleyes:,live and let live you will feel better not worring what others have or dont have;).

bobbbb

seanybiker wrote: »

op i actually didnt read all your post i just read until ya said do people have a problem with 09 cars.
I have been somewhat poor since before the recession and am still the same now. I love the recession. The amount of my street that bought new cars every year and got stuff done to their houses is funny cos now they are paying it off and dont have the money. Its not the government that messed it up it was us irish trying to be better than others around us. Nobody saved . I am so happy people are like me now. I have enough money to keep my bike on the road and pay tax etc. Same as always but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed. Best thing ever to happen in my opinion.

I wonder do you live on the same road as me. I didnt borrow for my car. I saved the money for it. Hate borrowing. Havent borrowed in 20 years, Since i borrowed €2000 to buy my first banger.
But you were looking at me scoffing and saying "Ha, now he has to pay that off, ha , ha." - Wrong. Not everyone borrows.

mikemac

Hobbes wrote: »

The only issue I have with 09 cars (or any 96-98 or earlier) is that they tend to be driven by people who seem to not have fully grasped how to drive.

amacachi wrote: »

Well I will say that the 09 drivers seem very mannerly compared with 08 and 07 drivers at the start of the last few years.

Talk about generalizations

So which is it? Are drivers with the 09 cars the best or the worst, the two of you can argue over it

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

seanybiker wrote: »

op i actually didnt read all your post i just read until ya said do people have a problem with 09 cars.
I have been somewhat poor since before the recession and am still the same now. I love the recession. The amount of my street that bought new cars every year and got stuff done to their houses is funny cos now they are paying it off and dont have the money. Its not the government that messed it up it was us irish trying to be better than others around us. Nobody saved . I am so happy people are like me now. I have enough money to keep my bike on the road and pay tax etc. Same as always but the posh people are shopping in aldi now but they feel ashamed. Best thing ever to happen in my opinion.

It's attitudes like this that got us into the mess. Begrudgers... people that are jealous of that others have. We bought a brand new car in 1999. We still have it Has only ever had one owner and has nearly 200,000 miles on the clock. I personally wouldn't buy a new car, would look at a car that's a year or two old though.

If people are allowed borrow, then why blame them? If you were offered money so easily, wouldn't you take it? It's not the peoples fault, it's the banks fault.

aare

Well, we went out in the '09 this afternoon, looking for a nice quiet game of "ram the begrudger", but nobody seemed to want to play.

Most upsetting...

There was one guy in a "British Racing Green" 10 year old Rover who's need to overtake seemed to be challenging his survival instinct, but apart from that, everybody was just the same as usual.

ninty9er

Renee Quiet Yo-yo wrote: »

If people are allowed borrow, then why blame them? If you were offered money so easily, wouldn't you take it? It's not the peoples fault, it's the banks fault.

People get offered cocaine and ecstasy too. Would it be the dealers fault if they accepted and died??

All they needed to do was say no.

Mr. Frost

Piste wrote: »

In the Irish Times hot or not (don't laugh!) today they had undr "not" the 09 car stigma, people being made almost ashamed of their 09 cars. I;ve noticed on boards people talk in a very begrudging tone about holiday homes and fancy cars and whatnot, so I'm wondering, do you begrudge people these things?

Begrudging is slightly different to feeling smug that they're getting their comeuppance for taking out a massive loan on a car and remortgaging their house to buy an appartment in Spain, do you actually feel that people shouldn't have these things?

For anyone who has an 09 car or holiday home, do you feel slightly stigmatised by it? Do you try not to mention it in company? Does it annoy you when you see various posts on boards saying "oh maybe people will have to sell their luxury home boo hoo"?

I'm sorry I can't think of concrete examples from boards of this begrudgery, if I see any (they're usually on After Hours) I'll post them up.

It annoys me a bit (I have neither ar not home- being 18) that people feel almost glad that other people have to give up the luxuries they've worked hard for.

This is typical of Irish people imo. I'd certainly never begrudge anyone. Infact if I see a 09 I think 'fair play to them'. A nation of begrudgers is Ireland. I've plenty of money and I'm not ashamed of it either. I just happened to work my way into that position. Of course that could change and I do feel sorry for some people, but I don't feel sorry for the begrudgers. That's just my 2cents.

gcgirl

I'd forget about the Stigma of a 09 car, What about the Stigma of having a ticket to the HEC semi in Croker !!

aare

gcgirl wrote: »

I'd forget about the Stigma of a 09 car, What about the Stigma of having a ticket to the HEC semi in Croker !!

Ah but THAT stigma is hardly recession related...

Disease Ridden

I say fair play to anybody with an '09 car.

It's obvious that if you're driving an '09 car you've earned that privellage by either not having squandered during the boom years or by having involved yourself in an industry that was a wise choice in the long-term.

It shows that you're spending your money the way you want, regardless of all the over-coverage of the dire economic situation of the country by the media. It shows us that at least the economy hasnt grinded to a complete halt!

It lets the rest of us see that the natural order of society is being brought back, whereby not everybody is able to afford the best things, which gives the rest of us something to strive towards; what incentive to work hard is there if the best you can hope for is to be striving to "keep up with the joneses".

Madame Razz

I'm driving an 09 jeep....getting really tired of the smart comments tbh...

I'd be a really wealthy woman if I had a euro for everyone of them:rolleyes:

I bought it because I had to because of my work.....but these days I seem to spend my time trying to hide the damn thing. I'm even tempted to draw a circle onto the 9 to make it an 8.

Have even had random strangers comment, it's nuts.

Hobbes

mikemac wrote: »

So which is it? Are drivers with the 09 cars the best or the worst, the two of you can argue over it

Most of the current year reg drivers tend to fall into "company car" or "learner driver with their new car". At least they like they don't know how or don't care. Which is why I generally give those and 98* or lower a width berth.

* people with 98 or somewhat earlier reg tend to fall into the "This is my first car for learning to drive" as they can destroy the thing without much worry of loosing any serious money.

If you bought an 09 car. Fair play to you.

mike65

I was getting uncomfortable in my 96 reg car, now I'm quite happy - it turns out I was ahead of the curve.

ejmaztec

I was driving behind what I though was an 08 car, but it was only when I stopped behind it at traffic lights that I realised that it was 09. I don't know whether the owner mistakenly or intentionally used black plastic bolts, instead of white ones to hold the plate on, but it certainly looked like a precision job with the bolt turning a 9 into an 8.

yaynay

ejmaztec wrote: »

I was driving behind what I though was an 08 car, but it was only when I stopped behind it at traffic lights that I realised that it was 09. I don't know whether the owner mistakenly or intentionally used black plastic bolts, instead of white ones to hold the plate on, but it certainly looked like a precision job with the bolt turning a 9 into an 8.

I think it would be a pretty sad state of affairs if one would intentionally do this. Not everyone is suffering during this recession, so why would they feel ashamed if they have a job, etc.?

Personally, I was considering getting an 09 car for a number of reasons. i) We are hoping to extend our family soon and will need a bigger car. ii) I have worked extremely hard resulting in me getting another (well deserved!) promotion last week.

I've had my eye on this particular car since it arrived on the market in 07 and decided with my next promotion I would treat myself for working hard.

Should I be ashamed of this? I work in an industry which is continuing to grow during the recession, so job security isn't an issue.

ejmaztec

yaynay wrote: »

I think it would be a pretty sad state of affairs if one would intentionally do this. Not everyone is suffering during this recession, so why would they feel ashamed if they have a job, etc.?

Personally, I was considering getting an 09 car for a number of reasons. i) We are hoping to extend our family soon and will need a bigger car. ii) I have worked extremely hard resulting in me getting another (well deserved!) promotion last week.

I've had my eye on this particular car since it arrived on the market in 07 and decided with my next promotion I would treat myself for working hard.

Should I be ashamed of this? I work in an industry which is continuing to grow during the recession, so job security isn't an issue.

If you've got it flaunt it.


in fact, there should be a new model released for these times - Mitsubishi Stigma.

Madame Razz

ejmaztec wrote: »

I was driving behind what I though was an 08 car, but it was only when I stopped behind it at traffic lights that I realised that it was 09. I don't know whether the owner mistakenly or intentionally used black plastic bolts, instead of white ones to hold the plate on, but it certainly looked like a precision job with the bolt turning a 9 into an 8.

If I could do this, I would.

The peace I would have would be lovely!!!

ejmaztec

Madame Razz wrote: »

If I could do this, I would.

The peace I would have would be lovely!!!

Never mind, next January you can start waving your fist at the 10s (if you can find it).:pac:

Madame Razz

ejmaztec wrote: »

you can start waving your fist at the 10s (if you can find it).:pac:

ejmaztec

Madame Razz wrote: »

as in 09 reg cars will not draw the same attention next year.....

Madame Razz

ejmaztec wrote: »

as in 09 reg cars will not draw the same attention next year.....

It was more the 'fist' comment that confused me tbh...

sunnyside

I LOVE seeing other people with 09 cars, it's a reminder that the economy isn't quite as bad as the media likes to tell us. To me the 09 cars represent hope for the future because they show that some people can still afford stuff.

I only learned to drive in August last year and failed my 1st attempt at the driving test so I'm happy that I have any car. My car is a 05 focus but if I was shopping for the car now I'd get something smaller and cheaper. I have no particular interest in cars anyway, I'd prefer to be buying clothes or going on holidays but I honestly am happy to see 09 cars.

I couldn't afford one myself but I think a country where all signs of luxury and wealth had disappeared would be much worse than the present situation.

lmimmfn

id commend anyone with a 09, and long as its not some stupid 60,000 euro merc crap.

Theres a begrugery thats developed here since the late nineties and is one of the reasons we're in this mess, everyone competing with everyone else and everyone ripping off the next person. Irish people were always community oriented and since we got all this cash in the past 10 years we've changed, i very much regret what we've changed into and living abroad several times in the past 10 years for 6 months to 1 year stints and coming back i considered moving abroad permantly due to the money madness thats become the be all and end all of this country.

I remember what this country stood for and what it used to be like and i hope we get back there again.

NewDubliner

sunnyside wrote: »

I couldn't afford one myself but I think a country where all signs of luxury and wealth had disappeared would be much worse than the present situation.

I disagree.

We need common sense and thrift.

Ignore the Indo, it represents big business & they're scared we'll see through the consumerist illusion & stop buying over-priced houses and cars.