Trevor Horn says ...

PaulBrewer

'Most of the new producers are nothing more than DJs who were in the right place at the right time,,,They havent got a clue about harmony,,,'

Discuss ?

studiorat

Trevor Horn that purveyor of integrity and high art?
The thing about DJ's is they know what makes people dance, or most do anyway. Biff Stanard will be the first to say he knows **** all about music but knows a good groove when he hears it, I know I asked!!!

You don't need to be Tchaikovsky to understand harmony, it either works or it doesn't.

DamagedTrax

depends who he's talking about really i guess... its quite a vague statement. i presume he's talking pop since thats his area?

ive never been a huge fan of trevors output to be honest (i just never got into "yes" at all). fair enough he did some well respected recordings (art, grace jones, etc) but other than the tatoo album (which i think he only did a small amount of work on) i wouldnt listen to most of it anyway.

Seziertisch

Kind of has a point, long gone are the days when the producer was the most capable musician in the room, able to play a number of instruments, score a string section (or even orchestra) etc. While all this was going on many of the engineers at the time were capable of designing and building world class mic pres/eqs/comps etc.

The system is completely different nowadays. Nobody is walking in cold and getting an apprenticeship working for and with the greats (both artists and those behind the desk). Even those with qualifications aren't getting these opportunities (generally). That said there are probably infinitely more "qualified" recording engineers out there these days. Before you either got an apprenticeship or you didn't. Now you pay your money, do your time and you are "qualified" (to learn more). In one way there is a generation gap resulting in knowledge not being passed down.

That said, the other side of the coin is the Internet. Masses of great info available (in many cases directly from the greats). Obviously the signal to noise ratio leaves a lot to be desired some of the time, so you might have to do some trawling. Also there are a number of quite good publications out there. Tape Op - completely free, good tech tips, interesting interviews etc. Sound on Sound - kind of advertising oriented but still a lot of good info to be had from it. The list goes on. These media have granted people access to knowledge previously inaccessible. The only way to find out about how a certain album was made would have been to ask the horse directly. Depending on where you were geographically that would have been next to impossible 20 years ago, nowadays this is not the case. Even if the horse can't be reached directly somebody will have had the chance and will hopefully share what they heard.

PaulBrewer

Well it was on Twitter ....

frobisher

Replace 'producer' with indie-band/pop-starlet/singer-songwriter and you'd still be as wrong or right. No biggie. That's the way the business works, the only difference is that the great unwashed now have a direct route into the producers hot seat straight from the bedroom.

Rockshamrover

I was watching a documentary the other day about the recording of "goodbye yellow brick road" by Elton John and his band. He was saying that things got done a lot quicker back then (1970s) He reckons technology slows things down.

Maybe the newer guys have lots more technology to become expert at. Maybe there is to much gear (equipment) now.

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

I was watching a documentary the other day about the recording of "goodbye yellow brick road" by Elton John and his band. He was saying that things got done a lot quicker back then (1970s) He reckons technology slows things down.

Maybe the newer guys have lots more technology to become expert at. Maybe there is to much gear (equipment) now.

Yes, too many options! I agree.
The flip side of that is that bands lean on technology too much.

I rarely come across a band that can cut it in the studio.

I love what the new 'producers' are turning out - I just pre-ordered my Esser album on iTunes and Dizee and Calvin's Dance Wiv me was one of my singles of '08!

As always there's room for everyone .... once you're not shyte.;)

PaulBrewer

Seziertisch wrote: »

In one way there is a generation gap resulting in knowledge not being passed down.

.

Well put - records like the Frankie's singles output, Grace Jones' Slave to the Rhythm and The Art of Noise (all Trevor Horn's) can't be made by the inexperienced, no matter how talented.

' The only ones who have disdain for knowledge are those without it ' Oscar Wilde

Mr Alan

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I rarely come across a band that can cut it in the studio.

I'm curious, but what do you mean by cut it?

PaulBrewer

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm curious, but what do you mean by cut it?

All play together well. Singing in Tune .... that kinda thing

That's not even playing well in the traditional technical sense, just playing together.


p.s. Big Ole play count on your MySpace ... well done!

Mr Alan

PaulBrewer wrote: »

All play together well. Singing in Tune .... that kinda thing

That's not even playing well in the traditional technical sense, just playing together.


p.s. Big Ole play count on your MySpace ... well done!

Singing in tune?! i can't believe you said that! my secret shame!

spent the day jamming today with some new tunes, really shaping up well with a few cracking little new tunes, i'll send you on demos when we get them done.

Neurojazz

Bands definitely produce and hone songs quicker - have noticed that recently.

PaulBrewer

Mr Alan wrote: »

Singing in tune?! i can't believe you said that! my secret shame!

spent the day jamming today with some new tunes, really shaping up well with a few cracking little new tunes, i'll send you on demos when we get them done.

Do please! The rougher the demo the better.
Pity the David Byrne support didn't materialize - perhaps next time

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Yes, too many options! I agree.
The flip side of that is that bands lean on technology too much.

I rarely come across a band that can cut it in the studio.

I love what the new 'producers' are turning out - I just pre-ordered my Esser album on iTunes and Dizee and Calvin's Dance Wiv me was one of my singles of '08!

As always there's room for everyone .... once you're not shyte.;)

One mans Shyte is another mans shinola.

How's that book coming along?

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

How's that book coming along?

Yer all in it ...

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Yer all in it ...

The book or shyte:D

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

The book or shyte:D

Boom Boom!:D

BumbleB

Where did he say that Paul ,just interested ?.

I didn't think you been into the likes of Calvin Harris productions.I'm not really gone on Harris as a producer though .


pn the other hand Trevor Horn is a genius in my book, did you ever read on SOS and how he produced "Relax" absolutely amazing .

There's another comment here saying thats bands are making albums quicker and I think thats because the musicians are infinitely better than they were 10 ,15 years ago. You tube, the internet in general has opened the door for anybody to become masters at whatever they want, guitarist ,producer etc the info is all there.

Most 18 year olds can play better (technically not feel wise though) guitar than people I know who are a lot older.

I think he may have been pointing the finger at Timbaland and hip hop in general here.

PaulBrewer

BumbleB wrote: »

Where did he say that Paul ,just interested ?.

I didn't think you been into the likes of Calvin Harris productions.I'm not really gone on Harris as a producer though .


pn the other hand Trevor Horn is a genius in my book, did you ever read on SOS and how he produced "Relax" absolutely amazing .

There's another comment here saying thats bands are making albums quicker and I think thats because the musicians are infinitely better than they were 10 ,15 years ago. .

On Twitter, I'm trying to establish is it actually him, but I'm guessing it is by the content and sarcasm. The SSL boys are checking for me!
http://twitter.com/trevorhorn

I like Calvin, not so much the new single but I liked the energy of his stuff. Someone described his Ting Tings remix as sounding like the Ting Tings mixed by Calvin Harris !

That's as it should be to my mind, keeping the essence of Ting Tings mixed with his identifiable touches.

I think yer man Esser is going to be huge this year too...
http://www.esserhq.com/

I disagree with the (young) 'musicians are better' line though - DAWs have made it so's you can get it near enough and Pro-Tools guy will time, tune and copy though..... They know they have that safety net, so don't try to nail it.

That wasn't an option in Ye Olde Days ...

eoin5

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Discuss ?

Ugh, flashbacks of LC English.

Anyways you get prog rock drummers producing punk albums, I dont see how DJs are so much further removed. I mean the job description is just to talk a lot and eat sushi, how hard is that .

i57dwun4yb1pt8

re "
Most 18 year olds can play better (technically not feel wise though) guitar than people I know who are a lot older. "


this actually means that most 18 year olds cant play - believe it or not
if you cannot get an emotional feel across , then you may as well give up - its the whole point of the process.
any idiot can play scales out the ying yang , but few can make someone cry with two well played notes - or even one well played note

and stating that a prog rock drummer
( a musician - they all play more than drums you know - 99% of the top drummers play other instruments ) )

is like a DJ
( a non musician who is basically a sound engineer with a turntable )

is nieve in the extreme .


and i agree with trevor horn

PaulBrewer

eoin5 wrote: »

I mean the job description is just to talk a lot and eat sushi, how hard is that .

:cool:

DublinWriter

BumbleB wrote: »

pn the other hand Trevor Horn is a genius in my book, did you ever read on SOS and how he produced "Relax" absolutely amazing .

He certainly is. It was amazing how he could take a frothy pop act like 'Dollar' and make them sound like the sound track to the second coming of Christ.

I also loved his production work with ABC and Yes.

woodsdenis

PaulBrewer wrote: »

On Twitter, I'm trying to establish is it actually him, but I'm guessing it is by the content and sarcasm. The SSL boys are checking for me!
http://twitter.com/trevorhorn

.

I really don't think it is the real person. A good fake though.

jtsuited

who the hell is he referring to?

dj is a term that could mean anything.

PaulBrewer

DublinWriter wrote: »

He certainly is. It was amazing how he could take a frothy pop act like 'Dollar' and make them sound like the sound track to the second coming of Christ.

I also loved his production work with ABC and Yes.

ABC!
It was around that time I found out what the word 'Lexicon' meant, and I don't mean the reverbs ...

11811

BumbleB wrote: »

I think he may have been pointing the finger at Timbaland and hip hop in general here.

I imagine so as well, does Timbaland actually do much in the way of producing or is he just like a brand name to put on tracks to make them sell?

BumbleB

11811 wrote: »

I imagine so as well, does Timbaland actually do much in the way of producing or is he just like a brand name to put on tracks to make them sell?

You've a point there, nobody knows for sure .I was talking to a producer who worked for bad boy records and he told me P.diddy has f *** a** to do with alot of the stuff that goes out under his name .

PaulBrewer

BumbleB wrote: »

You've a point there, nobody knows for sure .I was talking to a producer who worked for bad boy records and he told me P.diddy has f *** a** to do with alot of the stuff that goes out under his name .

That's called 'Executive' Producing ...

jtsuited

11811 wrote: »

I imagine so as well, does Timbaland actually do much in the way of producing or is he just like a brand name to put on tracks to make them sell?

I was reading SOS a while ago and it had one of those 'Inside Tracks' with one of his mix engineers (can't remember her name, it was a female).

Apparently she was one of at least 10 (if I remember correctly) mix engineers he gets to do mixes. Then he listens to the finished product and makes whatever changes he wants.
Fairly common practice for producers.

Timbaland does actually know his stuff (in a musical sense anyways) as I saw something about the making of that Kanye West track Stronger and they had had 11 different mix engineers have a go at it to no avail.

Kanye West brought in timbaland and in 5 minutes he identified what the problem was and hey presto everyone was happy - if you're curious, it was a bassline and kick drum compositional issue.

Timbaland is fairly unique is his sound and musical structure so I don't think they're just whackin his name on anything. That being said, I believe he has a right hand man who is the real brains behind the whole operation.
Again not very rare these days.

11811

jtsuited wrote: »

I was reading SOS a while ago and it had one of those 'Inside Tracks' with one of his mix engineers (can't remember her name, it was a female).

Apparently she was one of at least 10 (if I remember correctly) mix engineers he gets to do mixes. Then he listens to the finished product and makes whatever changes he wants.
Fairly common practice for producers.

Really? To be honest I've never heard of too many producers doing this, most of those I would rate would also do a fair bit of mixing duties too.
Having 10+ mix engineers is just crazy in my opinion...

BumbleB

jtsuited wrote: »

I was reading SOS a while ago and it had one of those 'Inside Tracks' with one of his mix engineers (can't remember her name, it was a female).

Apparently she was one of at least 10 (if I remember correctly) mix engineers he gets to do mixes. Then he listens to the finished product and makes whatever changes he wants.
Fairly common practice for producers.

Timbaland does actually know his stuff (in a musical sense anyways) as I saw something about the making of that Kanye West track Stronger and they had had 11 different mix engineers have a go at it to no avail.

Kanye West brought in timbaland and in 5 minutes he identified what the problem was and hey presto everyone was happy - if you're curious, it was a bassline and kick drum compositional issue.

Timbaland is fairly unique is his sound and musical structure so I don't think they're just whackin his name on anything. That being said, I believe he has a right hand man who is the real brains behind the whole operation.
Again not very rare these days.

Agreed, Timbaland is excellent , I think I saw that video, Kanye West looks like an amateur in that one.

studiorat

woodsdenis wrote: »

I really don't think it is the real person. A good fake though.

ho ho ho !
There's a good bit of that going on alright.

Seziertisch

jtsuited wrote: »

I was reading SOS a while ago and it had one of those 'Inside Tracks' with one of his mix engineers (can't remember her name, it was a female).

Apparently she was one of at least 10 (if I remember correctly) mix engineers he gets to do mixes. Then he listens to the finished product and makes whatever changes he wants.
Fairly common practice for producers.

Timbaland does actually know his stuff (in a musical sense anyways) as I saw something about the making of that Kanye West track Stronger and they had had 11 different mix engineers have a go at it to no avail.

Kanye West brought in timbaland and in 5 minutes he identified what the problem was and hey presto everyone was happy - if you're curious, it was a bassline and kick drum compositional issue.

Timbaland is fairly unique is his sound and musical structure so I don't think they're just whackin his name on anything. That being said, I believe he has a right hand man who is the real brains behind the whole operation.
Again not very rare these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDghOVNedsM