Planning Application and Social Housing rules - Bit dull and technical..!

Badboybobby

hi guys

my first time on boards and this is my first posting. I've got a query re: seeking planning permisson and the social housing requirements. My parents have a sizeable garden (c. 2.5 acres). As my father turns 60 in a few months, I've been on to them to seek planning permission to build some houses at the bottom of the garden.

My query is how do we get around the social housing rules in doing so. My father seems to think if he builds two houses/sells two plots to begin with, he would then need to wait 5 years before then doing the same again. This sneaks around the rules for the social housing. Is this correct?

Thanks for reading

BBB

Jimbo

The social and affordable housing regulations only require one in every five houses - not one in every three.

I'm not sure how long you would have to wait before the previous houses built are not considered but in this economic climate it could be hard enough to sell just one house. Maybe just apply for the four for the meantime.

Badboybobby

Thanks for the reply.

I'm aware that the requirement is 20% for social housing. However, as far as I am also aware, this only applies to specified "developments" i.e. if you build over a certain number of units it is viewed as property development and it falls under the social housing requirements.

At first I thought if they built 4 houses and walled off the top acre of the garden (where their house lies), they could sell these off and then in turn, possibly 10 years later, subdivide their reduced garden to build another 1/2 houses.

One more query, are local authorities still accepting cash in lieu of a house/apartment/unit as was originally envisaged under the guidelines? I've been looking around on the internet for further info in this area and have not had much luck. Section 5 of some act (the Planning Act?) seems to hold the key.

Cheers - informed opinions appreciated.

Jimbo

Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000 is the relevant legislation.
Although it is aimed at planning authoritites, there's alot of useful info in this document.

Different planning authorities have different interpretations of the act and some will be stricter than others. If they think that you are trying to avoid it, they can refuse issuing an exemption certificate and you will not be able to apply for permission.


Although the Dept. of Environment are generally against the idea of cash in lieu of housing units as the cash would probably never be used for social housing, some local authorities will accept it in certain situations.
From a developers point of view, you might be better off donating units instead of cash when the housing market is poor.

Badboybobby

Thanks Jimbo. That's very helpful. I owe you an Easter Egg.

You seem to know a bit about this - a developer or solicitor perhaps? I wasn't aware it would fall to each individual council. They don't seem in any rush to make any moves but no harm in planning ahead in any event. I'd tend to agree with you re: trading a house in the current market but I doubt anything will happen any time soon.

I see your point re: having an exemption issued. What I had in mind is to build a few houses and wall/fence off the top lawn next to my parents house, then in 5-10 years perhaps they could build another retirement house for themselves thus not falling under the rules. Given where the live, the garden has an intrinsic value worth a lot more then the house itself.

BBB

Jimbo

No problem. I'm an engineer generally working with planning applications.

Section 97 deals with exemptions to to social housing provisions.
Your understanding of legal text might be better than mine but there seems to be a limitation of 5 years from previous applications, i.e. if you wait 5 years before building the second group of houses, they can't take the previously built houses into account.

Badboybobby

Thanks Jimbo. I've had a look at section 97 and my fathers seems to have done some of his own enquiries as he mentioned 4 houses/units to me already. My reading of it would be build 4, wait 5 years and then reapply for further planning. My parents are of the idea that 4 very generous houses with some garden are as much as they'd want to build in any event.

Cheers, I'm starting to like this boards.ie website already.

Badboybobby

Actually, I've got a separate but similar question now that we are on the planning thread.

My parents have a 4.5 acre piece of land nearby and he was granted planning permission last May for 39 houses. Bad timing, I know.... Given the current market, I doubt he is going to do anything with this site for some time - 5 years + perhaps. The planning was contested by the neighbouring properties therefore it went to An Board Plenala before being granted. Given it has to be "substantially built on" (started??) within the 5 years, he will no doubt be back seeking a regrant of the permission in 4.5 years. What is the perdicament in this case given An Board Pleanala already grated the permission.

A) Is it likely they'll simply regrant the existing permission provided there has been no material change surrounding the piece of land? This will be the case due to the layout of the neighbouring properties.

Will the existing permisson be completely expunged and he will need to go through the same process all over, beginning at local level?


Thanks

BBB

Badboybobby

And lastly, what is your understanding of to have "substantially built on"... I am not sure if these are the accurate legislative words but as long as a someone has begun building on a site, the planning permission granted is valid. Clearly it takes some time from start to finish to build 39 units.

Jimbo

You would have to go through the exact same process again if the planning runs out and neighbours would be given the same chance again to appeal.

It would probably be easier to get the planning given the history of the site but if there were changes in planning policy in the area in the meantime they would have to be observed by the planners - so it's not guaranteed.(e.g. change of zoning, etc)

Substantially built means all external walls completed, i.e. built to wallplate level(for all houses).

Badboybobby

Thanks. That's helpful but not really what I was hoping to hear. My father was wondering if there was some sort of dispensation/extension that An Board Pleanala could give under the circumstances so that the entire process doesnt need to be repeated. Aside from a change in zoning (highly unlikely I'd imagine), I don't envisage any material change in the circumstances for the neighbours to reappeal. Two sides are large country houses with walled gardens, the third side is walled to a public road and the 4th side is walled to adjoining agricultural lands which are unlikley to change until this site is built on.

I also thought the rules surrounding "substantially built" were more lax but take your point.

jdivision

you can apply for a social housing exemption certificate. If you don't plan on building the houses yourself what's the problem with one of them being s&a?

Badboybobby

There were two separate issues being discussed above regarding separate pieces of land.

In terms of the 4.5 acre field, there is no way to get around the social housing issue. The issue was with the planning application itself and whether an extension/renewal would be granted automatically. Given there is currently planning for 39 units, there will be debate with the council on social housing, perhaps 5-6 units. The planning is valid until summer 2003 however presently it seems unlikely any building will take place given the economic crisis.

The second and original topic was the question of getting around the social housing requirements in my parents garden. I think Jimbo provided the relevant answers/details. It seems they could apply for up to 4 houses without tripping the social housing rules. Wether they could then reapply in 5-10 years for more housing on the remaining part of the garden is debatable. The local council may deem them to be trying to get around the rules.