"Vdot" / vo2 max / training types discussion

silverside

Hi

"Vdot" is a number summing up vo2 max (aerobic fitness) and can be used to determine training paces. It is calculated from a race performance.

Attackpoint VDot calculator

Do any of you guys use this method , and do you find it useful? Do you feel that it is a good way of scaling race results from distance to distance?

I'm interested because I read the lactate thread - this seems a less complicated way to get paces, although not as exact - I'm interested in starting a discussion on the right mix of training (and how to find it) - for me it's speed endurance i want so will be doing a lot of threshold runs / intervals.

--amadeus--

For anyone who hasn't read Daniels a quick bit of background...

Vo2 max is a measure of your ability to move and use oxygen during exercise. The average male between 30 and 40 would have a VO2 max of 39-48 (from here, a good explanation article). Gebrselassie on the other hand is estimated to have a VO2max in the mid 80s! VO2 max is thought to be the absolute performance limiter (you can't run faster than you consume o2) and - while it can be trained to an extent - it is genetically fixed.

Vdot is a term coined by Daniels and it is a calculated value based on your actual race results. As such it combines your theoretical VO2Max value with other things like your LT, economy and even your willingness to endure pain. Explanation here.

I read Daniels recently and I wasn't blown away by his training plans (P&D are still streets ahead for me) but I thought Vdot and predicting paces based off it were really interesting so I'd ike to hear from anyone who is using it in practice.

tunney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

For anyone who hasn't read Daniels a quick bit of background...

Vo2 max is a measure of your ability to move and use oxygen during exercise. The average male between 30 and 40 would have a VO2 max of 39-48 (from here, a good explanation article). Gebrselassie on the other hand is estimated to have a VO2max in the mid 80s! VO2 max is thought to be the absolute performance limiter (you can't run faster than you consume o2) and - while it can be trained to an extent - it is genetically fixed.

Vdot is a term coined by Daniels and it is a calculated value based on your actual race results. As such it combines your theoretical VO2Max value with other things like your LT, economy and even your willingness to endure pain. Explanation here.

I read Daniels recently and I wasn't blown away by his training plans (P&D are still streets ahead for me) but I thought Vdot and predicting paces based off it were really interesting so I'd ike to hear from anyone who is using it in practice.

Aye - would agree too. read his stuff and found it wanting.

Genghis

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I read Daniels recently and I wasn't blown away by his training plans (P&D are still streets ahead for me) but I thought Vdot and predicting paces based off it were really interesting so I'd ike to hear from anyone who is using it in practice.

LOL, training advice from "Jack Daniels" . But P&D ... cád é?

Krusty_Clown

Genghis wrote: »

LOL, training advice from "Jack Daniels" . But P&D ... cád é?

Sin é: Pfitzinger and Douglas Advanced Marathoning agus Road racing for serious runners.

Running Bing

I use Jack Daniels VDOT and training programme for the simple reason I find it very easy to understand and apply.


Im relatively new to running (and very new to speedwork) so pretty much anything I do is going to improve me...I imagine a fair few people are in that boat and even more experienced marathoners, used to one pace training, could benefit too. For this reason the Daniels programmes are very accessible and really cement the idea's behind different types of training and doing them at the correct paces (i.e. not to fast or too slow). It really focuses on what you should be trying to achieve with each session.

That is why I find it so valuable. P&D might have a lot more info and be more scientifically based but maybe it doesnt spell the basic concepts out as clearly as JD and newer runners could find the more basic important concepts going over their heads.


If your a more experienced runner, looking to eek out small improvements (like going for a sub 17 5k etc.) then you probably know a lot of the stuff in Daniels and should be looking at something more solid to base training on like the lab tests described in the thread on tempo running.

asimonov

Babybing wrote: »

I use Jack Daniels VDOT and training programme for the simple reason I find it very easy to understand and apply.


Im relatively new to running (and very new to speedwork) so pretty much anything I do is going to improve me...I imagine a fair few people are in that boat and even more experienced marathoners, used to one pace training, could benefit too. For this reason the Daniels programmes are very accessible and really cement the idea's behind different types of training and doing them at the correct paces (i.e. not to fast or too slow). It really focuses on what you should be trying to achieve with each session.

That is why I find it so valuable. P&D might have a lot more info and be more scientifically based but maybe it doesnt spell the basic concepts out as clearly as JD and newer runners could find the more basic important concepts going over their heads.

+1 on this; i haven't read P&D so i can't compare; but as a novice runner coming from zero knowledge, VDOT makes it easy for me to understand the basics of having appropriate pacing targets and having a balanced training schedule which combines these different paces. But rather than talking in general about pacing (ie conversational pace) it gives me a specific pace target to focus on.

It also gives me targets to aim for at races that are an alternative to the mcmillan ones.

In effect i feel its the same basic message as per RF on threshold training last week, but in an accessible format that i can measure with the tools that i have to hand i.e. some books and a garmin. No doubt as i get more experienced and knowledgeable i might look for more technical ways of identifying the various paces i should be training at and how to combine them to optimise training effectiveness, but it does me for now.