[Article] 'Sheer madness, grossly unfair and discriminatory’ on county residents

IIMII

Meath Chronicle, Saturday, 11th April, 2009

MOTORISTS will have to pay a road toll on their way into the new railway station at Pace when they are exiting the new M3 motorway next year, a councillor claimed this week.
Independent Cllr Brian Fitzgerald yesterday (Tuesday) launched a fierce attack on the planned tolling system for the county, saying that it was “grossly unfair and discriminatory” on the people of the county.
He described as “sheer madness” the planned opening of the toll station at Pace. He said that there was no admission to the train station other than by paying a toll. “Whoever thought this one up should be put on a toy train and shunted into a siding somewhere,” he said,
He called on Minister for Transport and local TD Noel Dempsey to “call a halt to this crazy situation”.
“It looks like we are going into a scenario in which a person with the good sense to leave the car behind and take the train will have to pay a toll on top of his/her train fare - and I suppose down the line the person will be asked to pay a parking fee as well,” he said.
He gave examples of how some motorists will escape or pay very little tolling, depending on the road they take. “Take a landmark like the Liffey Valley roundabout,” he said. “If a person leaving that roundabout wants to go to Rosslare, they will have a motorway practically all the way - and pay no toll. If another person leaving the Liffey Valley roundabout wants to go to Athlone - a distance of about 60 miles - they will pay only one toll [€2.90 for a car at present rates]. If a person is driving from Liffey Valley to south of Portlaoise, they will pay no toll.
“However, if a person leaves the Liffey Valley roundabout next year and wants to go to Kells via the M3, he or she will pay three tolls - one the M50, one at Pace, and one North of Navan. Then if you’re coming from Kells or Cavan and want to use the motorway towards Dublin so that you can get on the train at Pace [park and ride], you will have to pay a toll north of Navan and pay another toll on the way into the station.”
He said that there was no other way to get into the train station. “If you want to get the train there, you will have to pay a toll on the way in. And having done your business in Dublin and you head back to Pace by train so you can move on to Kells or Cavan, you will have to pay a toll coming out of the station.
“British Rail used to have a slogan 'Go to work on an egg’. In this case, you’d be better getting up on the back of a chicken - because if you don’t, you’ll have to fork up for four tolls in that single return journey.”
He called on Minister Dempsey to intervene “immediately” to stop what he called “excess tolling” and “tolling madness” in Meath. “That toll station at Pace is being built, the foundations are in. The apparatus to screw the drivers of Meath is being put in unless they raise their vocies - and make sure they are heard.”
The Cllr said that the toll measures would become “completely counterproductive” in taking cars and trucks off the roads. “It is wrong, for instance, that we should be paying two tolls on the M3 for less than 30 miles while other people will be getting away with paying no tolls for longer distances.”
Cllr Fitzgerald also attacked the design and planning of the motorway. “There is no provision to physically take the railway farther than Paceland. There is no provision to go under the motorway at Pace.
“If a decision is made to take the railway on to Navan, as the Minister keeps saying he wants to, then the whole damn shoot will have to be dug up again. It’s a disgrace and a total and absolute waste of money and somebody should be held to account for it.”
He asked why there was no provision for motorists to leave the motorway at Pace. “Drivers will have to go seven to eight miles to Blundellstown in one direction and Pace seven -eight miles in the other direction to get off the M3 so that you can go into Dunshaughlin.
“We have gone toll made in Meath. I wouldn’t mind if there was fairness and equality in all this but there isn’t. The Minister cannot sit idly by – he has to rectify these situations. He is the Minister and he has the power.”

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/articles/1/38111/

Victor

While he might have a point, being ambigious, selective and (in places) plain wrong doesn't help his argument.


One should also note that this is a Meath County Council scheme and that the councillor is up for re-election in June.

AlekSmart

Interesting little spat indeed.
More so when one notes the identity of the relevant Minister

I hope this gives a somewhat clearer view of the current Bus Èireann/Bus Atha Cliath "dispute" situation which centres around the WITHDRAWAL of Public Transport resources at a time when most folks would consider they are becoming MORE relevant.

Instead,Minister Dempsey has pursued a course directly conflicting with the ethos of Transport 21 and the various "Sustainable Alternative Transport" initiatives which his Government propose.

Councillor Fitzgerald is scratching at a nasty little boil which may yet yield some very pungent PPP puss. :eek:

Watch this space :rolleyes:

kaizersoze

Victor wrote: »

One should also note that this is a Meath County Council scheme and that the councillor is up for re-election in June.

Very true.
Why didn't he start whining about this 3/4 years ago while on the council and before a sod was turned.:rolleyes:

IIMII

Because they were too busy defending the M3 in the currently almost completed format to critique the other serious flaws in the project. For example, in the original M3 plans, the site of the currently being built station at Pace would have been buried beneath an M3 intersection, and it was only an An Bord Pleanála condition that changed that. Much of what he is saying is correct, it's just that he ignored it until it was safe to bring it up, lest he be accused of being anti-M3. All party reps were as bad, even the ones that raiesed it did it tokenistally. Interesting to note that Shane McEntee was elected on a scrap the M3 tolls mandate originally, so if FG are elected to Govt I wonder can we expect him to persue this? :rolleyes:

Chris_533976

kaizersoze wrote: »

Very true.
Why didn't he start whining about this 3/4 years ago while on the council and before a sod was turned.:rolleyes:

Exactly, hes harping on about it now yet we knew about this years ago on this forum.

DWCommuter

kaizersoze wrote: »

Very true.
Why didn't he start whining about this 3/4 years ago while on the council and before a sod was turned.:rolleyes:

Very true.

While I was doing a radio interview nearly 4 years ago with Barry Kenny, he defended this tolling decision. Furthermore the original feasibility study into the pace reopening recommended that IE come to an arrangement with the toll operator. I doubt this will happen. The same report also stated that reopening to Navan was a non-runner.

When one looks closely at this whole M3/Pace railway scheme, it is easy to deduce why I have never believed that the line to Navan will reopen. It appears that the powers that be are quite happy to have Navan people drive 17 miles to a P+R at Pace, pay a rail fare, car parking charge and a road toll. Its a neat little cash cow, that would be blown out of the water if the line to Navan was built. The sewer main, M3 impediments and the locally campaigned for (and irrelevent) rail structure at Cannistown (nearly forgotten anyway) is all the evidence needed to clearly demonstrate that blatant lies are being told about this project and there was never any intention to reopen it. It is nothing more than a blind promise. Im also happy to see that at last notice is being given to the fact that the M3 blocks the alignment. I know some people will talk all sorts of engineering wonders, but quite honestly you would be merely clutching at straws. Personally I will never forget the reaction at a public meeting to my presentation that questioned the wisdom of placing a sewer main on an alignment that they claimed was being reopened. I was silenced by the councillors in attendence. Dominic Hannigan was particularly condescending. If your're reading councillor, keep looking over your shoulder, because you have failed in your duty where this alignment is concerned.

Navan is getting its railway. It starts at Pace and you will need to drive your car along a toll road to get there.

Enjoy it.

Amtmann

One of the NRA's supposed "key considerations" regarding toll roads is that an alternative route is always available. I don't know the area at all; is there seriously no alternative to the M3 for those wishing to access the new station?

DWCommuter

Furet wrote: »

One of the NRA's supposed "key considerations" regarding toll roads is that an alternative route is always available. I don't know the area at all; is there seriously no alternative to the M3 for those wishing to access the new station?

All evidence to date suggests there isn't. Im open to being mistaken.IIMII should have the exact details. But I agree with what you have said. For example L-Drivers can't use the M3. Therefore if the station can only be accessed from the M3, they can't use the P+R. Realistically one may have to use Dunboyne station instead.

Ham'nd'egger

DWCommuter wrote: »

All evidence to date suggests there isn't. Im open to being mistaken.IIMII should have the exact details. But I agree with what you have said. For example L-Drivers can't use the M3. Therefore if the station can only be accessed from the M3, they can't use the P+R. Realistically one may have to use Dunboyne station instead.

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Property%20Plans/Property%20Plan%20No%20P008.pdf

From this first map, there is a road at the bottom that appears to take on the current N3 alignment and route.

http://www.m3motorway.ie/RelatedContent/file,13987,en.pdf

From this second map, it shows this road to run from Dunshaughlin along the current N3 to the Pace interchange and hence adjacent to the M3 and onwards to a roundabout. At the roundabout, it meets the R154/155, this being the junction for Fairyhouse, Ratoath and Trim. It also shows a road that feeds the Park and Ride and onwards to the south of Dunboyne where it crosses the R156 and R 157.

Assuming these roads to be correct as shown and opened in time, they will give the Park and Ride access to most of Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Dunboyne and the Trim/Kilmessan road hinterland without the need to pass through the toll plaza.

Of course, L plate drivers won't be driving to the Park and Ride as it's illegal;)

DWCommuter

Hamndegger wrote: »

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Property%20Plans/Property%20Plan%20No%20P008.pdf

From this first map, there is a road at the bottom that appears to take on the current N3 alignment and route.

http://www.m3motorway.ie/RelatedContent/file,13987,en.pdf

From this second map, it shows this road to run from Dunshaughlin along the current N3 to the Pace interchange and hence adjacent to the M3 and onwards to a roundabout. At the roundabout, it meets the R154/155, this being the junction for Fairyhouse, Ratoath and Trim. It also shows a road that feeds the Park and Ride and onwards to the south of Dunboyne where it crosses the R156 and R 157.

Assuming these roads to be correct as shown and opened in time, they will give the Park and Ride access to most of Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Dunboyne and the Trim/Kilmessan road hinterland without the need to pass through the toll plaza.

Of course, L plate drivers won't be driving to the Park and Ride as it's illegal;)

I looked at that map alright and it does indeed show what you describe. Time will reveal all.

Victor

DWCommuter wrote: »

All evidence to date suggests there isn't. Im open to being mistaken.IIMII should have the exact details. But I agree with what you have said. For example L-Drivers can't use the M3. Therefore if the station can only be accessed from the M3, they can't use the P+R. Realistically one may have to use Dunboyne station instead.

As shown, access isn't only via the M3. There are lots of misturths in the original piece - the councilor forgets there is an exit at Dunboyne.

Of course L-drivers are meants to be supervised, so instead of supervising, the supervising driver can drive the motorway bits instead of the L-driver.

DWCommuter

What is conclusive is that M3 users travelling from the Navan direction will have to pay a toll. The maps show other access points to Pace P+R from local roads. But until the work is further advanced, it hard to tell what the exact set up will be. But I do realise that its highly unlikely that the entire facility will be ring fenced by a toll. Of course.....