Breaking OTB - usb/fw mixer question

Neurojazz

Does anyone have experience with usb/firewire analog mixing desks (seems to be a new thing)

If in theory i dumped my FW edirol in favor of a decent spec outboard desk linked by FW/usb i could start expanding gear as my machine is loaded.

At the moment i have crappy mixer - just used to attenuate the volume from the edirol.

Max budget / 1000e - would be wondering about the usb V fw quality if it's relevant...

Welease

Neurojazz wrote: »

Does anyone have experience with usb/firewire analog mixing desks (seems to be a new thing)

If in theory i dumped my FW edirol in favor of a decent spec outboard desk linked by FW/usb i could start expanding gear as my machine is loaded.

At the moment i have crappy mixer - just used to attenuate the volume from the edirol.

Max budget / 1000e - would be wondering about the usb V fw quality if it's relevant...

I have a Phonic 16 channel firewire desk, but its probably lower quality than you would be using.. works great..
The only thing i noticed when i was looking around before purchasing was a lot of the USB desks only sent 2 channels (L & R) across the USB regardless of how many channels the mixer had (the Alesis ones for example).. Apparently this is less common now, but worth keeping an eye out for just in case.

Edit - probably worth adding as a downside it obviously doesnt control the DAW.. so while it's nice to record multiple inputs etc at the same time after that its pretty useless.. playback doesnt come out via the same channels over firewire (at least with mine), so I can't control anythign that way, i can't pan (and if i do Pan on the mixer, Cubase doesnt get told that it's panned left for example and to set the corresponding pan pot to left), change volume etc. After it has been used as the input it provides zero functionality.. So i guess it depends on what you want to use it for.

studiorat

Hmmm! I wonder do those Mackies or desks like that let you go from computer back into the desk? I don't think they have 8 or 16 D/A converters.

Dravokivich

studiorat wrote: »

Hmmm! I wonder do those Mackies or desks like that let you go from computer back into the desk? I don't think they have 8 or 16 D/A converters.

The Onyx range only received back a L/R mix from PC's.

Neurojazz

Ok, thinking about it - ideally i'd need just L/R to and from the computer - not worried about DAW control at all.

I need just the computer output and would be great if when i select a channel to goto the record output it is piped back to the computer for recording - no other fancy stuff.

I'd prefer USB as it would be a load off my machine and i get a slot back and free up some resources.

madtheory

Are you thinking that mixing OTB would free up resources? Compression, eq and summing don't use much processor power. but reverb does. Maybe you'd be better off investing in an outboard reverb? I have two outboard effects units hooked in to my system, works great.

Welease

Neurojazz wrote: »

Ok, thinking about it - ideally i'd need just L/R to and from the computer - not worried about DAW control at all.

I need just the computer output and would be great if when i select a channel to goto the record output it is piped back to the computer for recording - no other fancy stuff.

I'd prefer USB as it would be a load off my machine and i get a slot back and free up some resources.

Without trying to sound dumb, wouldnt a patch bay into the edirol give you what i think you want? The ability to swap effects and instruments in and out as you need.. quickly and efficiently..

As you mainly do (and forgive my ignorance on the specific styles ) electronic/dance music, I assume you are rarely recording multiple instruments at once (this is the only advantage my desk gives me).. If my assumption is wrong, then ignore this post

Edit - Just posted then I realised you might also want to tweak the hardware based effects after you have recorded them? Is that why you want stereo out's back to the desk?

Neurojazz

madtheory wrote: »

Are you thinking that mixing OTB would free up resources? Compression, eq and summing don't use much processor power. but reverb does. Maybe you'd be better off investing in an outboard reverb? I have two outboard effects units hooked in to my system, works great.

It's not a CPU issue, no problem with that stuff - the problem lies in the amount of DSP devices causing conflicts powercore/duende/edirol - if i could take the edirol away and either get a simpler device with less channels and even off the FW card altogether then the machine would benefit stability wise.

I think i'm planning on doing writing and mastering on separate machines soon - would save so much bother.

Seziertisch

Presuming that you are hoping to gain something soundwise, I'd imagine that conversion would be one of the swords you would live or die by in a situation like this. If you have 8 or 16 channels of reasonable conversion and a good sounding desk of some sort that would be ideal. I have found though that unless what you are sending the stuff out to sounds particularly good, you end up losing more than you gain in the D/A/D.

Otherwise some sort of stereo summing with good conversion would be the way to go. I have heard of a lot of guys running ITB mixes through stereo mic pres, a hardware stereo eq and compressor to warm things up.

In terms of conversion with mojo, the Universal Audio 2192 gets talked about quite a bit, although it costs an arm and a leg over here (I think it recently took a price jump of 800 or 900 Euro). Supposedly it adds quite a bit of tape like colour and weight to things.

Neurojazz

I sum ITB, but need an external desk for other computers in the room to use - and rarely i'd be recording 1 mike and maybe a stereo pair tops.

The problem with the edirol is that there's little control over the volume if the system or that device crashes - and digital white noise at 650w is'nt fun - so i use a little analog desk between my edirol at the moment - but would prefer to get both 'in one' - keeping the desk analog so faders can be wacked down when there's crash/error. This may seem bizarre, but my speakers have no volume control that's accessible!