Left behind in the rat race

LegacyUser

Let me pre-empt the naysayers saying I'm lucky to have a job. I'm wish you the best in your job search too.

Have a good job and like it.......or used to at least.
I'm not going to claim I'm brilliant at it. I get averagish annual reviews and since I started a few people after me have gone for internal jobs and gotten promotions.
I've more time served but didn't apply as maybe I didn't feel confident enough, this had been said to me in reviews.
I'm not bitter, fair play to everyone who got promotions I say!

I saw a new emerging opportunity and applied for it three times over a 7 month period. There weren't interviews or a vacancy as it was new but I asked my team leaders and manager could I go for it and was told yes, but we're busy so we'll sort this later.
Two staff there less time then me got this new position and lots of training. Well done to them. But if management knew I wasn't going to get this, why tell me yes and leave me in false hope??
My former teammate got this job despite no qualifications, I was raging and when I said so they haven't talked to me in 4 months, hope I didn't offend them, I'm a nice person but it seems I have....... Hey they sit beside me so talk about an unconformable atmosphere every day!

It's a bitchy workplace, I wish it wasn't. I've been told several times I've have great ideas but I don't put them forward due to lack of confidence. Possibly, when in a meeting of twenty, it's not easy to jump in. Or when I do I get talked over.

Served my time, work longer hours then most, doing my best but getting passed over by people with less technical skills then me but more interpersonal skills and confidence and better at getting noticed.

I've two choices. Either stop working 12 hour days and watch other pass me by or push myself forward and do my best.
Advice apprecited thought and I hope it's not I'm lucky to have a job. Unreg here but I give advice in Work and State Benefits forum to be fair

bluecell99

Sometimes others get ahead for reasons nothing to do with ability.Happens in the public service all the time.Not just a private sector phenomenon.You're beating you head off the wall.

My advice?You've pushed yourself enough.Sit back and take the money.

Let the others do what they want.You should not have to prove yourself.

Believe me 12 hour days will seriously affect your health going forward and no money can buy that.

Prioritise your life elsewhere .The job pays your bills.

SheRa

roadtonowhere? wrote: »

Let me pre-empt the naysayers saying I'm lucky to have a job. I'm wish you the best in your job search too.

Have a good job and like it.......or used to at least.
I'm not going to claim I'm brilliant at it. I get averagish annual reviews and since I started a few people after me have gone for internal jobs and gotten promotions.
I've more time served but didn't apply as maybe I didn't feel confident enough, this had been said to me in reviews.
I'm not bitter, fair play to everyone who got promotions I say!

I saw a new emerging opportunity and applied for it three times over a 7 month period. There weren't interviews or a vacancy as it was new but I asked my team leaders and manager could I go for it and was told yes, but we're busy so we'll sort this later.
Two staff there less time then me got this new position and lots of training. Well done to them. But if management knew I wasn't going to get this, why tell me yes and leave me in false hope??
My former teammate got this job despite no qualifications, I was raging and when I said so they haven't talked to me in 4 months, hope I didn't offend them, I'm a nice person but it seems I have....... Hey they sit beside me so talk about an unconformable atmosphere every day!

It's a bitchy workplace, I wish it wasn't. I've been told several times I've have great ideas but I don't put them forward due to lack of confidence. Possibly, when in a meeting of twenty, it's not easy to jump in. Or when I do I get talked over.

Served my time, work longer hours then most, doing my best but getting passed over by people with less technical skills then me but more interpersonal skills and confidence and better at getting noticed.

I've two choices. Either stop working 12 hour days and watch other pass me by or push myself forward and do my best.
Advice apprecited thought and I hope it's not I'm lucky to have a job. Unreg here but I give advice in Work and State Benefits forum to be fair

Mmm a few things strike me from this post. You mention that you didn't get a promotion despite having more time served than others who did. Thankfully, as a youngish civil servant myself, the time served in the job is not the main reason for giving someone a promotion anymore in the civil service. The interviews are tough competency based ones where you have to show your experience, and depending on what grade you are going for, put it in the context of relevant Government policy and the positive outcome for the customer/public etc. You should see about going on a training course or getting some mentoring from a supervisor to help you progress there.

Regarding the new position that you applied for 3 times in 7 months. What exactly did you hope to achieve by doing that? You say that you mentioned it to management and they said to leave it for the time being. That should be enough, at least they know that you are interested. Im a supervisor and being asked twice more after that would be irritating at the very least and could be seen as misjudging the situation or pestering management. Now of course that by itself isn't a reason why you wouldnt get the job, but it could highlight your lack of interpersonal skills.

You do need to sit down with your manager and ask them why you didn't get it and what you can do to improve.

You mention that you are working 12 hour days. I know of a few senior managers that are temporarily working 12 hour days at the moment because of legisation that is being drafted but it would be extremely rare on an ongoing basis. It points to bad time management that the job can't be done in say even 9 hours. Also from a legal point of view, you are contravening the working time act.

Sorry I really dont mean to be so negative to you:o, I do hope you take it as constructive advice.

P.S Im not surprised that when you told the person that got the promotion that you wanted, that you were surprised that they got it without qualifications, that they are no longer speaking to you. Now granted they are being childish and unprofessional by not speaking to you, but they were probably deeply offended.

Qualifications are of course important (well relevant ones and Im assuming in this case that yours is) and do give you extra points in an public service interview, but interpersonal skills, experience and being good at a job are much more important.

P.P.S For some reason I get the impression that you are in the public service, but even if you aren't my advice still stands.

pwd

Doing 12 hour days regularly will wreck you. I think if you did them over any sort of extended period, you would end up getting less work done, than you would if you worked 8 hour days for the same period.
Company politics are a pain. They're a fact of life though. Might as well accept that. If you feel you are being treated too unfairly (which seems fairly likely if you're working 12 hour days tbh), then look into finding a new job external to the company.

LegacyUser

OP here
Thanks for replies

SheRa wrote: »

Regarding the new position that you applied for 3 times in 7 months. What exactly did you hope to achieve by doing that? You say that you mentioned it to management and they said to leave it for the time being. That should be enough, at least they know that you are interested. Im a supervisor and being asked twice more after that would be irritating at the very least and could be seen as misjudging the situation or pestering management. Now of course that by itself isn't a reason why you wouldnt get the job, but it could highlight your lack of interpersonal skills.

You do need to sit down with your manager and ask them why you didn't get it and what you can do to improve.

The role didn't exist back then
I didn't apply or waste supervisors time. It was more like, got a minute? I saw this area is expanding, we have nobody on this role at the minute which means clients will be affected. I'd like to learn the position, I'm willing to do more but I need training, can it be arranged over the next few months? And I'd be told yes! Took two minutes at best.
But two others got it ahead of me.

SheRa wrote: »

You mention that you are working 12 hour days. I know of a few senior managers that are temporarily working 12 hour days at the moment because of legisation that is being drafted but it would be extremely rare on an ongoing basis. It points to bad time management that the job can't be done in say even 9 hours. Also from a legal point of view, you are contravening the working time act.

Agreed, my time management skills aren't the best, but working at it and have improved. I never claimed to be brilliant at my job, I do my best and ask for training and feedback where I can.

SheRa wrote: »

P.S Im not surprised that when you told the person that got the promotion that you wanted, that you were surprised that they got it without qualifications, that they are no longer speaking to you. Now granted they are being childish and unprofessional by not speaking to you, but they were probably deeply offended.

Ah here now, I never told I told the person I was better or pointed at their lack of qualifiactions. Just said I was dissapointed, that's all.
It's gone beyond what I said, bitchy workplace and all that!

zxcvbnm1

Ya - i think doing those 12 hour days when other people are doing only 7 or 8 could actualy be backfiring.

Managers may be asking them selveswhy you need to be there 50% more time than everyone else to get the same job done.

Saying that you may also be getting 50% more work done - but i doubt it seeing as you didn't get the promotions.

I thin if it bothers you this much what you shoudl do at you next reviw/interim review is express your concerns to your line manager and ask for advice/assistance on setting achievable goals.

Looks like confidence is your main problem though.

don't be too hard on yourself though.

There are many bright spars out there who don't go as far as they could/should due to lacking in confidence.

joejoem

roadtonowhere? wrote: »

Let me pre-empt the naysayers saying I'm lucky to have a job. I'm wish you the best in your job search too.

Have a good job and like it.......or used to at least.
I'm not going to claim I'm brilliant at it. I get averagish annual reviews and since I started a few people after me have gone for internal jobs and gotten promotions.
I've more time served but didn't apply as maybe I didn't feel confident enough, this had been said to me in reviews.
I'm not bitter, fair play to everyone who got promotions I say!

I saw a new emerging opportunity and applied for it three times over a 7 month period. There weren't interviews or a vacancy as it was new but I asked my team leaders and manager could I go for it and was told yes, but we're busy so we'll sort this later.
Two staff there less time then me got this new position and lots of training. Well done to them. But if management knew I wasn't going to get this, why tell me yes and leave me in false hope??
My former teammate got this job despite no qualifications, I was raging and when I said so they haven't talked to me in 4 months, hope I didn't offend them, I'm a nice person but it seems I have....... Hey they sit beside me so talk about an unconformable atmosphere every day!

It's a bitchy workplace, I wish it wasn't. I've been told several times I've have great ideas but I don't put them forward due to lack of confidence. Possibly, when in a meeting of twenty, it's not easy to jump in. Or when I do I get talked over.

Served my time, work longer hours then most, doing my best but getting passed over by people with less technical skills then me but more interpersonal skills and confidence and better at getting noticed.

I've two choices. Either stop working 12 hour days and watch other pass me by or push myself forward and do my best.
Advice apprecited thought and I hope it's not I'm lucky to have a job. Unreg here but I give advice in Work and State Benefits forum to be fair

Dude, your letting guys piss ahead of you. You gotta go piss your pants, let them know your serious. Feel the pain, make the stain.

SheRa

roadtonowhere? wrote: »

My former teammate got this job despite no qualifications, I was raging and when I said so they haven't talked to me in 4 months

Op this post would lead me to believe that you did say something to them, but if I misread it fair enough.

Good luck in future promotions:) and I hope that you do take some of my advice on board. And fair play for asking for feedback.

Darragh29

Sounds to me OP like you are working in a corrupt workplace. If bullsh*t and "power talk" and the utterance of politically coded highly charged bullsh*t in meetings are the core criteria when seeking promotion where you work, then the issue is not you, as you have clearly come to believe, but the issue is in fact your current workplace.

Unfortunately for you, this unobjective and untransparent manner of promotion is extraordinarily rampant in Ireland, due to the high volume of unqualified and incapable individuals who are appointed to people management positions in Ireland.

Times being what they are, it's no time to be looking for a job, so I'd stay put if I was you, but I worked in a similar workplace before, and for a long time, I thought I was the problem with my career path, when in fact all along, it was the place where I worked. All the things you have mentioned above, no job advertisements, no interviews, when you see this kind of sh*te in the workplace, you know you are in the company of incompetent idiots, who promote with the "nod and the wink" career promotion system.

Wibbs

joejoem, take a break for a week. Your tone of posting is not welcome here in it's current form. Read the charter of this forum.

Terodil

OP, it seems to me that you are tripping yourself over tbh. Please note that I can only give my personal, general impressions here and keep in mind I know neither you, nor the company you work for, nor your immediate work environment.

Responsible positions come with their own requirements list; the higher you get in the hierarchy the less you need specific expert knowledge, but the more you need general management skills, i.e. communication, focus, ability to make decisions, etc. No offense meant (!), but almost everything you wrote in your post smells of something else. You seem to have a problem to focus -- *regular* 12h days are definitely a sign of that (yes we all have peaks from time to time, but long-term this is a no-no). You seem to have a problem to communicate effectively (talking about a possible job switch for 2 minutes on the corridor is wrong! you also don't really seem to communicate your strengths, achievements etc. properly -- self-confidence issue, as you say). And you do not really seem to analyse your situation and options properly, let alone act decisively.

I'm not trying to put you down here, please don't misunderstand me. I'm trying to help you understand why you didn't get promoted and others were. It's your manager's task to consider all these points and his/her responsibility to make the right choice for the company. S/He needs to maximise the chances of success, otherwise s/he's doing a bad job. It's evident that 'contribution' or 'time spent working for the dept/company' is only a minor factor if at all in this consideration.

So how do you proceed from here? Take this as a learning experience. I agree with the previous poster, ask your manager why you weren't considered or invited for a longer interview. Don't try to use that talk as a selling talk, listen, write the points down, take them back with you and think about them, hard. Then identify your problems, and work on them. None of the above deficiencies are uncurable, many of them can be trained -- but that's the point, you cannot really *train* them per se, the most important aspect of it is to get into the right mindframe for them, they need to become a second nature, no conscious process that can be 'trained' by going to trainings.

Now it's also important, I think, for you to make sure that such kind of position is actually what you want. If you continuously fail to make progress or simply cannot identify with the mindset, then it might be a sign that subconsciously, you do not want such a job. That's fine! We do not all need to become managers, VPs, board members. I know several people who didn't ask themselves this question and allowed themselves to be promoted to unhappiness.

CDfm

roadtonowhere? wrote: »

I'm not bitter, fair play to everyone who got promotions I say!

You are bitter

I saw a new emerging opportunity and applied for it three times over a 7 month period. There weren't interviews or a vacancy as it was new but I asked my team leaders and manager could I go for it and was told yes, but we're busy so we'll sort this later.

Two staff there less time then me got this new position and lots of training. Well done to them. But if management knew I wasn't going to get this, why tell me yes and leave me in false hope??

Thats gotta hurt

My former teammate got this job despite no qualifications, I was raging and when I said so they haven't talked to me in 4 months, hope I didn't offend them, I'm a nice person but it seems I have....... Hey they sit beside me so talk about an unconformable atmosphere every day!

Too right you were pissed off

It's a bitchy workplace, I wish it wasn't. I've been told several times I've have great ideas but I don't put them forward due to lack of confidence. Possibly, when in a meeting of twenty, it's not easy to jump in. Or when I do I get talked over.

Well start to take it personally

Served my time, work longer hours then most, doing my best but getting passed over by people with less technical skills then me but more interpersonal skills and confidence and better at getting noticed.

You are good at what you do. Develop outside interests to work on your skills

I've two choices. Either stop working 12 hour days and watch other pass me by or push myself forward and do my best

.

12 hour days havent worked -try to do your work in the 8 hours alloted. Why should someone move you if you are doing such a good job.

Advice apprecited thought and I hope it's not I'm lucky to have a job. Unreg here but I give advice in Work and State Benefits forum to be fair

At your next review raise the issue you have tried the 12 hour stints. The 12 hour stints should stop now.

Ishindar

Darragh29 wrote: »

Sounds to me OP like you are working in a corrupt workplace. If bullsh*t and "power talk" and the utterance of politically coded highly charged bullsh*t in meetings are the core criteria when seeking promotion where you work, then the issue is not you, as you have clearly come to believe, but the issue is in fact your current workplace.

Unfortunately for you, this unobjective and untransparent manner of promotion is extraordinarily rampant in Ireland, due to the high volume of unqualified and incapable individuals who are appointed to people management positions in Ireland.

Times being what they are, it's no time to be looking for a job, so I'd stay put if I was you, but I worked in a similar workplace before, and for a long time, I thought I was the problem with my career path, when in fact all along, it was the place where I worked. All the things you have mentioned above, no job advertisements, no interviews, when you see this kind of sh*te in the workplace, you know you are in the company of incompetent idiots, who promote with the "nod and the wink" career promotion system.

i gota agree with the above. work your set hours, take the money and put more focus on your personal life. when the jobs market recovers, move to a company with normal people in it

ArphaRima

Take some night courses. Especially in something that will develop your confidence. Maybe debating/public speaking.
If you lack confidence then people will not entrust you with any position of authority. Period.

Any other courses that develop your CV and make you more useful in your field will help too. You cant just wait for a promotion. Hours worked wont do it either. Develop and expand on your skillbase.

"Chicks dig skills" -ND

PK2008

Not sure what you're industry is but I work in professional services and if you get passed over for a promotion its usually a fairly strong indication that you're progress within the firm has ceased- they cant come out and say that but once a person is passed over they're usually gone in a few months.

You have 2 ways of dealing with it- ask your superior or HR person for feedback- ie why did I not get it and what can I do to get it the next time

or

start looking elsewhere

LegacyUser

why not just take the paycheck each week? Does this make you happy? Prioritize your personal life not your working life. I was like yourself once but you know what its not worth it. A job is a job. It pays the bills. It's not your life. I see some people here at my work killing themselves, staying on in the evenings for nothing. I've never ever been happier at work just tipping away. I guy there are 2 types of people, the people who live to work and the people who work to live. In the long run you will be happier with the latter.

gerry28

Hi OP

Work at coming across as competant and reliable. Show an ability to get on well with workmates, bosses and clients and you will be in a better position and frame of mind to really go for a promotion.

Take it easy for a while at work, you really don't want to be coming across as juvenile or desperate (i'm not saying you are).

One more thing if your education is not specific to the job you are applying for or the skill set required then it will not be enough alone to bounce you into a promotion. The others you mention who got promotions are either coming across very well or as another poster mentioned it could be a corrupt/crony setup.

Good luck and take it easy.

Darragh29

gerry28 wrote: »

Hi OP

Work at coming across as competant and reliable. Show an ability to get on well with workmates, bosses and clients and you will be in a better position and frame of mind to really go for a promotion.

Take it easy for a while at work, you really don't want to be coming across as juvenile or desperate (i'm not saying you are).

One more thing if your education is not specific to the job you are applying for or the skill set required then it will not be enough alone to bounce you into a promotion. The others you mention who got promotions are either coming across very well or as another poster mentioned it could be a corrupt/crony setup.

Good luck and take it easy.

Sounds to me like the OP is already doing that successfully. If the OP is working in a place where there are not fair employment rules in operation, then he/she is p*ssing into the wind in terms of trying to progress their career within that organisation. Any attempt to improve his/her performance will only result in more failed expectations and more anguish, based on my own experience.