Unemployed - no incentive to work

LegacyUser

This follows from the budget discussion threads.

I'm currently unemployed and living off €204 social welfare. I'm managing ok for now on this but only have myself to support.

I've never really had a well paid job despite having a degree. If I was to go back to work (in the unlikely event I could find a job) I'd probably get €300 if I was lucky. Then I would loose my medical card which is proving very helpful at the moment as I've needed a few fillings at the dentist and I have to visit the doctor regularly at the moment (bad asthma). Fillings cost around €70 each and with the GP visits recently I'm definitely better off on lower money and no medical bills.

I don't want to be the sort of burden on the taxpayer everyone is moaning about in the other threads. My motivation to work is to have a better standard of living. I want to go on holidays, buy expensive clothes, go out for meals, the usual things people who are working hope to do. But if I get a job I still won't be able to afford any of that so why would I?

I am making use of the free time. I failed my driving test today. If I was working I'd have had to take a day off to do it, most likely unpaid. I'll be doing a lesson a week for the next while and hoping to pass next time. I can barely afford to be doing this but I wouldn't be able to afford it much better if I was working for low pay.

I'm also going to college part time (FE1 Law exams). I paid for the course before I became unemployed. It requires a lot of study and due to the "current economic climate" job prospects are zero but like everyone else I hope this will improve by the time I'm finished. I would love to work in this area and am very motivated to do so. Again I feel that my time is better spent on this than working for minimum pay. I'm also free to do unpaid work experience which without the social welfare money I couldn't afford to do.

I'd like to add going to the gym to the things I'm using the free time for but I definitely can't afford that and the driving lessons. Ideally nobody should be able to afford either of the above on the dole but because I can there is again no big incentive to work. But I want an incentive to work.

I'm going to volunteer to help a charity but I haven't been unemployed for long so haven't got around to it yet. Again I feel that I could contribute much more to society by doing this than by working for minimum pay. Last week I did some babysitting for free and saved somebody else who's as poor as me the cost of a babysitter.


This is PI because it's worrying me a lot that there seems to be very little difference between my unemployed standard of living and that of past jobs. Going to work costs money (bus/train fares, work clothes, lunches, constant requests from collegues to sponsor them to this and that, contributions for gifts when people I barely know are leaving, having babies). I hate the idea of being unemployed, but in practice it's no worse than a low paid job. Surely this can't be right. Can someone please motivate me or offer some suggestions to change my situation.

Before I get attacked here I should mention that a lot of the money goes on bills, around €50 a week, €40 for food, €40 for driving lesson, €25 repayment on a loan (re-scheduled from the higher amount I paid when working) leaving €50 to cover everything else.

Ickle Magoo

In the current economic climate it can seem like working for nothing and social welfare can be fairly close your take home pay - but please remember that social welfare will only ever be the bare minimum payments, at least in employment you gain experience and can move up the ladder & be remunerated accordingly.

Maybe view this time to get qualifications in a profession you would enjoy and see where you could use that. The world doesn't start and end in Ireland, other countries are crying out for certain professions and some countries haven't been affected so badly by the global downturn.

I'm sorry you failed your diving test and are feeling generally quite down about things, try making a time line of things you want to do & the time you will take to do them so you can see you are making progress? Offering to do charity work is a very worthwhile way to give your time to others and it often has the added benefit of reminding us that regardless of how bad things look, they are always others much worse off.

Best of luck.

LegacyUser

Thank you for your kind reply. Ya I am kind of depressed about the situation. I'm already behind on the time line, I had hoped to pass driving test before now but nothing I can do except try again. If I had a job that would let me do a few lessons together instead of one a week that would help. A job that lets me continue with 1 lesson a week won't help.

People have problems at the moment a million times worse than me. I'm lucky to be managing so much on so little money but it's not really what I want. I'm sort of living like a student again but without the network of friends and classmates that comes with that. I'm a bit isolated from not being at work.

I do get out and I'm busy with the driving lessons, college course, I go for coffee some mornings, I live in a city so there are things to do but I'm worried that if I continue like this I'll be isolated. But still I'm not motivated to work for minimum pay. I have done plenty of times in the past when I was a student so didn't get social welfare but apart from buying food and paying the bills it never added to my self worth in any way.

I live in what what would be perceived to be a great area but it's not very friendly. I know nobody around here. The time-plan again, I have this fantasy that in about 18months/2 years (post recession hopefully) when I have done my FE1 exams that I can get a training place somewhere way out the country like Tipperary or Leitrim. I've been city based for years and would love a different lifestyle and I find people in the country so friendly. I'd need to be comfortable with driving before I could move away from the city though and I think the city is a better place to live when unemployed.

aare

Don't sweat it...

People are forgetting that we still have the most unequal society in Europe, even if we are all equally scr*wed...and you are caught at the rough end of that...

You seem to be making far better use of your time on unemployment, working towards a future, than many would, stay with it, and consider trying to qualify as a solicitor???

Mostly, I think failing the driving test is a BIG downer (Like the budget helped cheer you up too? :rolleyes:)

If it helps, at all, I failed mine first time, and I had been driving for 12 years on a provisional licence...

It is NOT the end of the world...it just means you have no real aptitude for driving tests...you'll get it next time...

McCrack

Reading your posts I'd say to study and finish the FE1s, they are bastard exams and if you have an opportunity to commit full time between now and the next sitting in October use it and pass them.

Secondly I'd suggest trying to volunteer in a FLAC or other legal community orientated service to both gain experience and contacts for when you go looking for that apprenticeship (which are like gold-dust) or even volunteer a day a week in a local solicitors office.

I mean doing the above will give your a focus over the next few months and you wont feel so bad about not working.

Law is very tough at the minute so any experience will be worthwhile in the long-run.

LegacyUser

Thanks guys, probably is the driving test that has me in bad form today. I only did my first driving lesson last August, got the car in November, so if I can pass before August 09 that would be a major achievement for me. I'm well aware that a driving test is a very minor issue compared with the people out there who are in danger of loosing their homes, etc but it's upsetting me.

Law isn't my background from college but I've become really interested in it. I enjoy studying it and have no plans to drop out but almost every day I think "this is a very expensive hobby" because I'm well aware that the chances of an apprenticeship
are almost zero at the moment. I'd love to do an apprenticeship in a small town out the country--the sort of place that would have had trouble getting anybody during the boom years. But with this recession business a modest expectation like that mightn't even be possible.

I can manage on the low pay as well, I'm used to it and it would be ok if I enjoyed the job. Im not motivated by money but by the prospect of a better lifestyle. It's bothering me that the dole pays almost as much as so many other things. I keep seeing suitable jobs that I could apply for but they all seem to be part-time 20 hours a week, €10 an hour admin type work. I can't see any reason to dedicate my time to something like that when it isn't even of financial benefit to me.


Would the FLAC be in need of volunteers or do that have loads of unemployed legal people all queing up for the experience? I'm working on the first 4 exams so I wouldn't know that much that would be useful to anybody, but I'm happy to do menial jobs, photocopying, tea making, reception type work. It's a helpful suggestion, thank you.

LegacyUser

McCrack wrote: »

Secondly I'd suggest trying to volunteer in a FLAC or other legal community orientated service to both gain experience and contacts

Checked out the website myself, the volunteers they need are qualified with experience barristers and solicitors. Where I live (not Dublin) FLAC is available to the public 1 evening a week for 1 hour. They aren't likely to need many admin/phone answering/tea making volunteers for that hour.

I've heard a few people lately say they've volunteered to help but the organisations just don't need them or they are getting so many applications they are being very picky. Before you suggested FLAC I was thinking of SVP, they claim to be very busy just now and my local meals on wheels have had ads in local newsletters asking for help recently.

mikemac

You are right about FLAC OP.
They only take qualified barristers and solicitors.

www.volunteer.ie
This shows openings around the country.

Best of luck

EastWallGirl

Hi

I am pretty much in the same position as you.

I had a job it was awful and I had made plans to do something else and it all came to a head and myself and the company agreed to part ways.

The course I started was the CELTA course and it really is alot of work and very hard, so I have decided for the remainder of the course to focus on that.

I have contributed to the tax system for 5 years, my husband who is self employed has contributed for the last 12 years, so I have no problem claiming. I plan to put back, it is not my fault that the government has less fiscal responsibility then the average pensioner (my MIL would have it sorted in a week).

You have contributed, you plan to contribute again and your parents have contributed, this was done in the belief that you could/should/would have access to the money if needed.

But learn this you do not need expensive clothes and holidays, just good family and friends, good company is priceless.

There are issues with the relative affordability of things on low wages, but jsut becasue you ar good at budgeting your dole is not a bad thing, far better that you spend it on driving lessons then booze and cigarettes.

Good luck with your studies, DO NOT give up if that is what you want to do.

LegacyUser

OP here again, thanks for the replies.

Not feeling any happier after the weekend. Had to sign at the dole office today. The place was absolutely packed. I felt so ashamed to be standing in the queue. Thankfully I was only there for about 15 minutes but all I could think was "the country really can't afford this, the money probably will run out soon". Strange thing was the people signing were 98% male (I'm female). According to the media females make up a much bigger proportion of the unemployed than that but it wasn't reflected in what I saw at the dole office today.

After I walked the city for a short while, the shops were all empty.

Now I'm even more stressed about my situation from being part of the long dole queue and looking at the shop assistants with absolutely nothing to do. In this sort of economic environment I can't see any realistic chance of building myself a career in law which is the one thing that has been giving me a sense of purpose recently.

I can't sustain living on €204 long term, it's ok for day to day things for now but as soon as something like car insurance comes up I'll be using the credit card which is dangerous when there aren't any job prospects. There aren't even shelf stacking jobs available just now.

I don't have a plan B, staying home to study will work for a while but if there's still no jobs, what then?

East Wall Girl good luck with your studies. I expect a lot of people are in this situation including all the students doing final exams next month.

StormWarrior

Tbh I would prob do the same in your situation. You are studying and learning to drive and want to work with your qualification when you have it. I don't really see the problem. Just study hard so you have more chance of getting a good job at the end of it. If I was you, I would consider my studying my job for the time being. When you're earning a good wage you'll pay it back through taxes anyway. It's not like you're some bum who never wants to work.

Oasis44

I'm in a similar(ish) situation albeit I am qualified and have experience in my work area. My company ceased trading in March and of course initially I was panicking. But then I got out mr. calculator and worked out that between savings, benefits, payment protection policies etc I was pretty comfortable financially and could easily see out the rest of 2009 without having to work. On top of this the budget from hell meant I'd have to be earning a minumum of €45k to make it worth my while going back to work. Now dont get me wrong I'm on the job sites every day but jobs in my area are few and far between right now. Guess I'm lucky that I dont have to take some **** job to get by and can afford to wait till a good one comes up. If I do end up 'off work' for the majority of the year I certainly wont lose any sleep about sponging off the 'workers of Ireland' - I have paid my taxes for 10 years and this is my first time on welfare so good luck!

sunnyside

There 's a letter in todays Indo from a guy who says he's enjoying playing golf now that he's unemployed . Like you OP he appeared to be making the best of a bad situation. I agree with you, there isn't much incentive to work just now. There was also an article about the teacher living on €94 a week after bills.

What's worrying about this is that a lot of people who definitely aren't wasters are choosing to take advantage of the generous welfare system.

OP maybe you could look for a part time or 3 day week job, you'd still get welfare payment for the other 2 days and have free time to study.

Good luck.

dny123456

You can't blame them to be honest. We'd all do the same, if faced with the same situation. They (gov) will have to reduce social welfare, to bring back some balance I'm afraid. There should be an advantage to working.

LegacyUser

I'm in the same boat, its scary and depressing. I haven't even got a penny of my dole yet and I've been out of work since end of January. They wouldn't give me anything without my P45 and that didn't arrive until 6 weeks after I finished. I am getting nervouse now that I may not get anything off them as its been so long. I work one day a week and have been submitting casual dockets to this effect. Anyone else had to wait this long?

LegacyUser

OP here again, thanks for the replies, I can't believe so many people are agreeing that this is ok. The idea of part time work would suit me, if I can even get any. I feel guilty for choosing to not work even though it's not a long term plan. Don't know why I feel guilty, loads of "unemployed" tradespeople are working for cash in hand and I doubt any of the bankers feel guilty.

I keep worrying that the money will run out because so few people are paying tax. I recall them saying in the budget that 40% of the workforce don't pay any tax, the minimum wage people, etc. Probably less than half the population work and loads of them are now on 3 day week, earning less therefore paying less tax. People are buying less so less revenue there too.

I don't want to work for a high income to have nearly half of it taken off me in tax. I know I shouldn't be saying that seeing as it's precisely those people who are paying my dole just now. I don't like the idea of working hard especially at a job I don't like and for half of my salary being used to pay for someone else to stay in bed late and watch daytime tv. The system is just so wrong. Surely it will work against the government taxing such a small percentage of the overall population so heavily? I've been reading the new economy forum, everyone over there seems angry with people like me. I'd probably get banned for posting a thread like this over there.