BNP writes article on the state of the Irish Economy

Iwasfrozen

I don't often find myself agreeing the Far-Right, Anti European, Pompous controversial machine that is the British Nationalist Party. But allot of this article is hard to argue with.
http://bnp.org.uk/2009/04/the-european-union-has-poisoned-the-celtic-tiger/
What are your thoughts on the BNP's summary and more importantly their suggestion to leave the EU.
Personally I think leaving the EU would be economic sucide but reclaiming the Punt ? That may just be what we need right now.

Benedict XVI

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't often find myself agreeing the Far-Right, Anti European, Pompous controversial machine that is the British Nationalist Party. But allot of this article is hard to argue with.
http://bnp.org.uk/2009/04/the-european-union-has-poisoned-the-celtic-tiger/
What are your thoughts on the BNP's summary and more importantly their suggestion to leave the EU.
Personally I think leaving the EU would be economic sucide but reclaiming the Punt ? That may just be what we need right now.

Read it, what a load of bo**ix

I can't remember Britain devaluing the Pound

The answer would be to devalue the currency as Britain has done, by a third against the Euro and the dollar in six months.

Oh and interest rates are actually being cut, has the author not noticed

Nor can the Irish Government, unlike ours, bring down interest rates. Or even print money

Alun

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I can't remember Britain devaluing the Pound

Harold Wilson did it in 1967. They got pretty close in 1992 too on Black Wednesday.

r0nanf

I could argue with a lot of it, but I'll just highlight this one piece:

BNP rag report wrote:

Ireland needs to get out of the Euro and out of the European Union. It needs to provide Irish jobs for Irish workers in an economy run by Irish people for Irish people.

Thats the solution from the BNP. Quote a whole load of stats, couple them with hearsay borrowed from Irish rag newspapers (single cigarettes, like they ever went away) and the solution is leave the EU and and EMU, and stop foreign nationals working here. Read it again, they don't actually back up their solution with any reasoning bar devaluing the currency. It's rubbish. I know you aren't advocating joining the BNP but it is total sh*te.

The comments below the article are hilarious by the way:

wrote:

Not to mention the "Act to Prohibit Incitement to Hatred on Account of Sexual Orientation" that has given rise to the shocking statistic of a 10% homosexual population in Ireland.

Written by f*cktards for f*cktards

Benedict XVI

Alun wrote: »

Harold Wilson did it in 1967. They got pretty close in 1992 too on Black Wednesday.

Yea I was aware of that but the article implies it was done in the last few months, which is not correct.

The answer would be to devalue the currency as Britain has done, by a third against the Euro and the dollar in six months

r0nanf

Exactly they didn't devalue it, it devalued. Investors pulled their money out due to lowering interest rates and lack of confidence.

SeanW

That article is way off the mark. The Sterling has fallen not so much because the government actually devalued the GBP, but because the markets have little faith in the U.K. economy.

See this video, of Conservative MEP Daniel Hannon talking about the UK economy and government spending with American pundit Glenn Beck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL39wuM-Eng
particularly from 4:00

"Printing money" as the BNP suggests, is not the way create wealth.

Furthermore, the setup for our economic collapse were paved not by the European Central Bank, although their interest rate cuts during our boom were dangerously pro-cyclical for us, so too were Charlie McCreevy's and later Finance ministers pro cyclical budgets, which drove inflation upward and imperiled the public finances.

We let these muppets create this mess, and we reelected them to do more in 2002 and 2007.

ECB rules at least require us to maintain some semblence of fiscal responsibility, which is absent in the U.K and the U.S, where the same socialist nonsense, of borrowing too much, spending too much, inflating too much, printing money too much, regulating too much, all this crap that caused the boom and bust and the worldwide economic freefall, is now being seen as the wonderful solution to all the problems the same policies created.

A bit like trying to cure a hangover by drinking more beer.

Mad Finn

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Yea I was aware of that but the article implies it was done in the last few months, which is not correct.

Sterling has fallen hugely against the euro over the last few months. Remember, it was British banks and building societies (eg Northern Rock) that had to be baled out before Irish ones.

IT has recovered a litle in recent weeks but it is still way down compared to about a year ago. This is not a deliberate action on the part of the government. They can't set the exchange rate. They can influence it, by adjusting interest rates, for example, which we can't do anymore because we don't have our own currency.

In general the article is a pile of disingenuous nonsense. Like where it implies that it was Eastern European immigrants are responsible for our drug abuse culture. Yeah, right!

The fact is that we live in an increasinly small world. Communications and transport technology means that interaction between various countries is much more readily achieved than before. That is something we have to live with. Autarky is not an option for us.

Fratton Fred

Didn't read it. I don't care if the BNP comes up with the ultimate plan to end the redession, they are scum.

mike65

The final solution for the recession?

Fratton Fred

Quick, buy shares in anyone who makes zyklon B

Woger

Ireland leave the EU, are people so stupid they don't realise that the EU more or less paid for most of our new roads? And wasn't the low interest rates due to rates being dictated by the ECB?
The sooner people realise that Ireland is very small fry the better.

nuac

The BNP article is one of series of pieces running down our economy, not to be taken seriously.

We would be like Iceland if we had had a separate currency - economic madness.

segaBOY

Absolute rubbish.

Where to begin?

motorways joining nowhere to nowhere else but adorned with huge “built with EU Regional Aid Funds” signs, etc.

Dublin to Belfast? Dublin to Cork (which will be completed soon)-nowhere to nowhere?

Unemployment has risen to over 12%, the highest for generations.

AFAIK it's currently 11% and 1996 was generations ago?? I'm 24 and I remember then, I must be a great grandfather at this stage if it is the highest for "generations".

All the Irish Government can do is make matters worse by cutting public spending and wages and raising taxes, desperately trying to plug a €20 billion hole in the public purse.

Well anyone who has a bit of sense would have seen how public spending was out of control even back in boom times, needs to be cut imo.

Unemployment in estates around Dublin and other larger Irish towns is soaring past 70% and shops are being reduced to selling single cigarettes and teabags.
120,000 people marched through Dublin recently demanding action and the reversing of public sector wage cuts of 10%

May be true with estates in Dublin but unaware as of yet many larger towns that have such levels of unemployment.
Wasn't aware of any shop selling single teabags (such a stereotype, may be true but look at them playing on our stereotype) or cigarettes apart from those ran by 70 year old men? Thought selling single cigarettes was illegal no?

Also I wasn't aware the pension levy was 10%? Nice bit of sensationalism.

Ireland needs to get out of the Euro and out of the European Union.

Yes and make the punt so valueless that we become a mini Iceland?

This is just rubbish.

O'Coonassa

The BNP think we're just a type of white monkey. I wouldn't pay any mind to them, somebody should DDOS them off the face of the web.

eoinbn

Devaluing might help save a few jobs but it would also drive the price of goods that we import up. It is no silver bullet, if it was then why are britain in the mess that they are in?

futurehope

r0nanf said:

The comments below the article are hilarious by the way:

Not to mention the "Act to Prohibit Incitement to Hatred on Account of Sexual Orientation" that has given rise to the shocking statistic of a 10% homosexual population in Ireland.

Ye, I always thought the figure was much higher...

trailerparkboy

Very good read, thanks for posting.

MikeC101

O'Coonassa wrote: »

The BNP think we're just a type of white monkey. I wouldn't pay any mind to them, somebody should DDOS them off the face of the web.

I'd think it much better to let them air their views in public, and point out the inaccuracies and make fun of the rubbish they spout than give them any kind of basis to complain about opression.

pablomakaveli

The BNP are an absolute joke of an organization. Not too long ago they despised the Irish and now they are calling us (to quote one of the posters below the article) "our Irish cousins".

I despise the BNP and the fact they are using us to push their own agendas is a disgrace.

That article is just pure tripe.

Lizzykins

Ethnic minorities 12% of the population? Wouldn't have thought so but maybe someone would have the figures offhand? It's too late for me to trawl through the last census figures to check.
I hate the BNP.

deadhead13

The BNP may have undergone a PR facelift in recent times, but they are still the same knuckle dragging fascist thugs they have always been.

Op you claim "alot of this article is hard to argue with" - your right. Pure unadultrated bulls**t is, in fact, hard to argue with due to the utter pointlessness of doing so.

jank

Stupid threads make baby jesus cry

deadhead13

jank wrote: »

Stupid threads make baby jesus cry

How does he feel about stupid posts?

CSC

In the same line about immigration from Nigeria and Eastern Europe they talk about soaring crime rates. The BNP never change and that article is way off the mark.

CiaranC

Its uncomfortably close to the stuff you hear trotted out on Boards day after day though.

turgon

To the OP: what parts of this article were hard to argue with?

Was it the part where both Dublin, Galway and Cork were described as "nowhere"?

Or where it suggested we put yet another dent in our competitiveness by withdrawing fro the single currency?

The part where is suggested fags are being sold in 1's? Thats illegal, not that the BNP takes much heed to law and order.

Please clarify OP.

jank

deadhead13 wrote: »

How does he feel about stupid posts?

If you want to waste your time discussing this thread fine but I tend to ignore stuff that was written by a party that prides itself on much the same mantra as the Nazi's.

Boston

Then ignore it. This is politics not after hours, you don't get to decide which threads should be derailed and which shouldn't.

r0nanf

CiaranC wrote: »

Its uncomfortably close to the stuff you hear trotted out on Boards day after day though.

+1 Sadly I can't disagree with you

deadhead13

jank wrote: »

If you want to waste your time discussing this thread fine but I tend to ignore stuff that was written by a party that prides itself on much the same mantra as the Nazi's.

It is my time to waste.......

I have no problem with this thread. By linking the article, all the OP has done is to expose the BNP for what they really are, ie. idiotic to the extreme.

And there isn't much discussion going on, since the OP seems to have disappeared.

jank

Boston wrote: »

Then ignore it. This is politics not after hours, you don't get to decide which threads should be derailed and which shouldn't.

Fair enough, derailing wasnt my intention. Ill leave this thread to grow to 15 pages with endless arguments about immigration, the EU and whatnot.

jank

deadhead13 wrote: »

And their isn't much discussion going on, since the OP seems to have disappeared.

Hence my post stating it was a stupid thread in the first place and essentially a wind up.

Iwasfrozen

Wow, allot of replies.
Lets see if I can answer all questions thrown at me.
@turgon:

Was it the part where both Dublin, Galway and Cork were described as "nowhere"?

Compared to London or other big cities Dublin is "nowhere" never mind the so called "cities" of Galway and Cork.

Or where it suggested we put yet another dent in our competitiveness by withdrawing from the single currency?

How is it uncompetitive ? China has devalued her currency in order to keep up competition. Is China not competitive enough ?

The part where is suggested fags are being sold in 1's? Thats illegal, not that the BNP takes much heed to law and order.

Have you been around the estates in Dublin recently. I haven't, for all we know they may be selling fags illegaly in units but the Garda don't care.
Not liking your tone turgon, you are very quick to attack the ideals of others.
(Not saying I support the BNP, to be honest I can't stand them but I did agree with this article.)
@deadhead13:
If you don't want to waste your time then by all means don't, it will save me the time of replying to you.

I have no problem with this thread. By linking the article, all the OP has done is to expose the BNP for what they really are, ie. idiotic to the extreme.

That wasn't exactly my intension but I respect others opinions.
P.S I haven't "disappeared" I simply didn't log on for one day.
The rest of the respones aren't worth replying to to be honest, I'm going to thrawl through pages and see if I can find a point to worth arguing.
@Jank

Hence my post stating it was a stupid thread in the first place and essentially a wind up.

Your time is the last thing I want to waste Jank, But just in case you do feel that your useless Off-Topic responeses are being ignored please do not feel obliged to remain.

Can'tseeme

Same old BNP using an economic downturn to peddle their xenophobic filth. Just to let people know their future idea for the republic, this is taken from there website:

"In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles."

Notice the use of the term of Eire and Ulster as if they're two different parts of Ireland. Shows the depth of knowledge they have of the geography of Ireland.:rolleyes:

futurehope

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Same old BNP using an economic downturn to peddle their xenophobic filth. Just to let people know their future idea for the republic, this is taken from there website:

"In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles."

Notice the use of the term of Eire and Ulster as if they're two different parts of Ireland. Shows the depth of knowledge they have of the geography of Ireland.:rolleyes:

Yes, it's good to have that clarified Can'tseeme. The BNP policy is to welcome Eire as a fifth home nation in addition to England, Scotland, Wales and Ulster. It will not create a United Ireland. For some reason some Unionists in Ulster (and on the mainland) still persist in peddling the myth that The BNP want a United Ireland of some description. I wonder why they might do that...

Iwasfrozen

"In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles."

I have seen this statement and I want to clarify, I in no way indorse the BNP or agree with any of their policies. I merely wish to introduce a debate on the avocation of certain policies related to the BNP, such as a cut in immigration levels, leaving the monetary union etc.

turgon

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Compared to London or other big cities Dublin is "nowhere" never mind the so called "cities" of Galway and Cork.

So are you saying that Cork and Galway dont merit to be joined by motorways to Dublin?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How is it uncompetitive ? China has devalued her currency in order to keep up competition. Is China not competitive enough ?

Obviously the fact the China has more than 200 times the population and influence than Ireland skipped your mind. Its a ridiculous comparison.

China is big enough to merit its own currency. Ireland is not. See?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I haven't, for all we know they may be selling fags illegaly in units but the Garda don't care.

For all we know Willie O'Dea flew to the moon, but I certainly wouldnt blame the budget shortfall on the huge amount of oil this would-be-event might have entailed. In other words one cant base economic conditions on things one has conjured up.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not liking your tone turgon, you are very quick to attack the ideals of others.

What ideals? Racism? Protectionism? The BNP is the shining light of ideals.

Iwasfrozen

So are you saying that Cork and Galway dont merit to be joined by motorways to Dublin?

As a decentralised country, a high quality transportation service is mandatory for Ireland, of course they merit a motorway. The people in Cork and Galway deserve to be linked to their own Capital, even if said Capital is "nowhere".

Obviously the fact the China has more than 200 times the population and influence than Ireland skipped your mind. Its a ridiculous comparison.

China is big enough to merit its own currency. Ireland is not. See?

So the fact that Ireland had her own currency 20 years before joining the Euro didn't cross your mind either ?
As for the influence, Ireland will still be a member of the EU and as such will be safe from Protectionism.
I'm not advocating leaving the Union, such a move would be economic suicide, but what I am advocating is reclaiming our own currency.

For all we know Willie O'Dea flew to the moon, but I certainly wouldnt blame the budget shortfall on the huge amount of oil this would-be-event might have entailed. In other words one cant base economic conditions on things one has conjured up.

I don't remember anyone "blaming" the economic conditions on the sale of single fags, simply that it is a sign of the times one is living in.

What ideals? Racism? Protectionism? The BNP is the shining light of ideals.

Regardless of their Ideals we still have to respect them, sucks I know but thats the problem with living in a free country.

turgon

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As a decentralised country, a high quality transportation service is mandatory for Ireland, of course they merit a motorway.

So you agree the relevant BNP argument is ridiculous?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So the fact that Ireland had her own currency 20 years before joining the Euro didn't cross your mind either?

And Ireland was such an economic success 20 years ago :rolleyes:

Do you think having our own currency would help competitiveness? By forcing MNC's to pay transaction fees on everything they do when based in Ireland? Or are you under the illusion that Ireland can sustain its own economy without any MNC?

Iwasfrozen

So you agree the relevant BNP argument is ridiculous?

I think the BNP is ridiculous, you would know this if you had bothered to read my previous posts in which I made that quite clear.
There are however certain points in the article, such as cutting down on immigration, reclaiming our own monetary system etc. that I find quite appealing.

And Ireland was such an economic success 20 years ago

Do you think having our own currency would help competitiveness?

From wiki:

Celtic Tiger is a term used to describe the period of rapid economic growth in Ireland that began in the 1990s and slowed in 2001.

Ireland joined the euro in 2002, The Tiger slowed in 2001.
See a picture ?

By forcing MNC's to pay transaction fees on everything they do when based in Ireland? Or are you under the illusion that Ireland can sustain its own economy without any MNC?

I am not aware of such transition fees, could you please elaborate ?

turgon

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ireland joined the euro in 2002, The Tiger slowed in 2001.

Its called the .com bubble. Celtic TTiger slowed in 2001, but certainly speeded up again since then. Do you honestly believe this slowdown stated 8 years ago?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I am not aware of such transition fees, could you please elaborate ?

Currency exchange fees?

Iwasfrozen

Its called the .com bubble. Celtic TTiger slowed in 2001, but certainly speeded up again since then. Do you honestly believe this slowdown stated 8 years ago?

You believe that being tied to the Euro has been good for this country ? what about Britain, I don't see their economy going off the rails, or Sweden, I don't see their economy falling as far as ours.
As for the TMC, they are the reason we are in a down turn in the first place. They employ as few people as possible, write off all expenses against tax so they can get away with paying as little tax as possible, and when the going gets tough, they feck off to a country where they can pay much lower wages with dirty conditions. You think we are better off with these people ?

Currency exchange fees?

European Currency Unit?

turgon

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You believe that being tied to the Euro has been good for this country ? what about Britain, I don't see their economy going off the rails, or Sweden

Firstly Britains exchange rate has effectively collapsed relative to the Euro. Secondly sterling is a major currency, which cannot be said of the old Irish punt. The UK has some 65 million people in it, and is a major economy, unlike Ireland.

Sweden appears to have it own internal businesses, whereas Ireland relies on outside companies...

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You think we are better off with these people ?

Whats the alternative, unemployment?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

European Currency Unit?

So you want to be tied to Euro, but not apart of the Euro?

Iwasfrozen

So you want to be tied to Euro, but not apart of the Euro?

No not pegged to the euro, apart from the euro and free to set our own currencies valuation but free from protectionism thanks to eu membership.

Whats the alternative, unemployment?

No, I suggest a Nordic based services economy, where we have small to medium businesses employing our people, not ignorent American TNC's

deadhead13

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

what about Britain, I don't see their economy going off the rails

Economic forecasters Ernst & young Predicts in 2009 - a 2.7% fall in the UK's GDP, business investment to fall by 17% and over 500,000 people will lose their jobs. Housing market expecting to decline by 25% from peak to trough.

Woger

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No not pegged to the euro, apart from the euro and free to set our own currencies valuation but free from protectionism thanks to eu membership.

No, I suggest a Nordic based services economy, where we have small to medium businesses employing our people, not ignorent American TNC's

Quick go to the government with your idea for the good of the country, go now.
Seriously, we need industries where we don't have to rely on multi nationals but I really don't see it happening.