RSA & SGS - First Time Pass?

ironclaw

Just wanted to get a rough idea of pass rates. From talking to about 15 friends (all male, 18 - 20 yrs old):

10 of them passed first time with SGS

5 of them failed first time with the RSA then all sunsequently passed 2nd time round (Rathgar / Churchtown)

Now, saying that it could be chance but the more I talk to people the more it seems that the RSA fail more male drivers first time than SGS. Do testers know how many times you have taken a test?

Oh, and 4 of the girlfriends passed first time with SGS.

brian076

No, testers don't know how many times you've sat your test, but if you've gained more experience between tests you're probably going to have a better chance of passing 2nd time.

Also, many of the applicants that SGS were allocated were on their 2nd or subsequent licence so even if it was their 1st test they were probably experienced enough to pass.

As SGS are closing this Friday I suppose this argument is now irrelevent.

Burtchaell

I passed first time with SGS and as it was said above its pretty much irrelevant unless your being tested this week.:D

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

driverite

I dont think you can compare like with like, sgs had a very different approach to dealing with people, welcoming them and putting them at ease (with a few exceptions i've heard about).

Rsa has a very gruff manner when dealing with people which doesnt help when you are going out to drive ( in my own case my licence was thrown at me across the table when returning it to me at my test, And when i was been trained as a tester the same guy told us to replace the licence in the plastic and be polite etc etc)

And a lot of the sgs test routes were very easy compared with rsa routes.
For example Arklow had a pass rate of 88% clonmel had to be closed because it was 95%. Bray was 82%.

ironclaw

All very good points folks. I don't want to start or get consumed by an arguement but everyone who I know who passed first time with SGS was:

On a 1st licence, driving up to or less than 6 months (from scratch). So the arguement that SGS got "better, more experienced" drivers is defunct in my eyes.

WIth regards to more polite dealing by SGS, couldn't agree more. I could type what my tester said to me at the end. It was horrendous and for a goverment employee it was way out of line.

Without going of thread, I know a guy who kits out rally cars with camera's for events, is there any laws against video recording your test?

Dave H

From my own experience, I don't think it makes a difference.I did my first test in Fonthill with SGS and failed, then a couple of months later I did it with RSA in Naas and passed. Both testers were courteous, made me feel at ease and were decent chaps.
Maybe the reason for people failing their driving tests is, wait for it, yis were'nt good enough in the test to pass,regardless of whether it's RSA or SGS.
How's about that?

dollybird09

I started learning to drive in September, did my test last week for first time with SGS in Baldoyle and passed :-)

I don't have my own car so passed on 20 lessons...

ironclaw

Dave H wrote: »

yis were'nt good enough in the test to pass,regardless of whether it's RSA or SGS.

Totally disagree. There are plenty of people out there who failed or passed, that shouldn't have. Our countrys death toll and general driving ability reflect that.

Dave H

ironclaw wrote: »

Totally disagree. There are plenty of people out there who failed or passed, that shouldn't have. Our countrys death toll and general driving ability reflect that.

Sorry, should have specified. I meant on the day of the test. I'm saying this because on my first test I was totally unprepared and failed, and deserved to fail but on the second one I knew where I was at.
It's just that since the thread was about the tests and not road statistics I assumed everyone'd get my point.
We cool now?:P;)

ironclaw

Dave H wrote: »

Sorry, should have specified. I meant on the day of the test. I'm saying this because on my first test I was totally unprepared and failed, and deserved to fail but on the second one I knew where I was at.
It's just that since the thread was about the tests and not road statistics I assumed everyone'd get my point.
We cool now?:P;)

No problem. It just annoys me when it seems all the lads are failing first time.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

NukaCola

ironclaw wrote: »

No problem. It just annoys me when it seems all the lads are failing first time.

So your saying that the RSA are failing male drivers for no reason other than they are under 20 years of age on the basis of people you know? What did they fail for exactly?

Dave H

Yeah, I gotta wonder about that aswell.
I was 28 doing a test with SGS and failed.
I have a cousin who's 19, did the test with RSA and passed,first time round.
Like I said before, the reason these people are'nt passing the test is because they were'nt good enough in the test.Simple really, nothing to do with age.
Question, for all your mates that failed, did they say how many grade 2 and 3 faults they got? Did the tester tell them what areas caused them to fail, ie go through the test sheet with them thoroughly?

Richie15

Dave H wrote: »

Did the tester tell them what areas caused them to fail, ie go through the test sheet with them thoroughly?

Are they supposed to go through your faults if you pass? My tester just mentioned one or two of them (I had a few grade ones and three or four grade twos I think).

brian076

Richie15 wrote: »

Are they supposed to go through your faults if you pass? My tester just mentioned one or two of them (I had a few grade ones and three or four grade twos I think).

Some testers do but they're advised not to in case it develops into an argument. Most testers will just refer to the marking sheet and advise the applicant to discuss it with their instructor

Dave H

Yeah but the thing is that they do go through it with you,even if it's just the main faults. I can't imagine them failing someone just because of their age.

brian076

No they're not going to fail you because of your age, but generaly the RSA testers won't go thru the marking sheet with you. What they will say is:

"I'm afraid you haven't been successful today, the faults which occurred on your test are marked on the driving test report and you should pay particular attention to these when prepring for your next test, without neglecting any other aspects of your driving"
During training, testers are specifically advised not to discuss any individual faults which occur during the test, in case it develops into an argument, but some testers may give more feedback than others.

Sunjammer

From the RSA website FAQ list:

"
Q. What happens if I fail the test?

A. The tester will present you with a report detailing aspects of your driving that led you to fail the test. You will also receive a Certificate indicating that you failed the test; you should retain this as you may require it when renewing your provisional licence. Unfortunately, the tester is not permitted to discuss your test results with you. If you wish to apply for a further test, application forms are available at test centres or you can apply online on this website."

timmywex

If anyone wants the reason as to why they failed, make a data protection act claim to ballina seeking all info held about you, including the report written by the examiner after the test!

See here;
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=392

springo

ironclaw wrote: »

Totally disagree. There are plenty of people out there who failed or passed, that shouldn't have. Our countrys death toll and general driving ability reflect that.

I'm a bit baffled about the testing system here. I went through a graduated licensing system (incidentally when I first arrived in Ireland, I read media reports as to how GOOD the licensing system in the country I did my tests in was). Passed each test first time in my country.

Discovered that I couldn't exchange my license here (although an Irish license holder doesn't have this restriction in my country), and went about applying for the test etc. Took lessons etc, and ended up failing by 1 point :mad: Left/right turns are what I failed on. So, I have to drive accompanied here as I've been here more than 12 months, but the minute I cross the border into Northern Ireland, or mainland UK, I'm able to drive unaccompanied.......

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Have reapplied (JUST before the driving test fee increase).
Won't be using that particular company for driving lessons again.

brian076

timmywex wrote: »

If anyone wants the reason as to why they failed, make a data protection act claim to ballina seeking all info held about you, including the report written by the examiner after the test!

See here;
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=392

There won't be always a report written. The tester will only write a report if you get a grade 3 fault or if something unusual happened on the test. So if you fail with 9 grade 2's there's unlikely to be any report except a copy of the Driving Test Marking Sheet

Buffman

Richie15 wrote: »

Are they supposed to go through your faults if you pass? My tester just mentioned one or two of them (I had a few grade ones and three or four grade twos I think).

As others have said officially they're not. I had a really sound RSA tester who went into good detail explaining to me where I picked up my grade's. This was after he told me I had passed aswell.
It was first time BTW so I don't think age or SGS/RSA makes any difference, it's your driving for that 20-30 min that counts.

ironclaw

Richie15 wrote: »

Are they supposed to go through your faults if you pass? My tester just mentioned one or two of them (I had a few grade ones and three or four grade twos I think).

It specifically mentions on the sheet that the tester cannot discuss the test with you. Imagine if a doctor wasn't at liberty to dsicuss your operation? Or a Garda had no right to discuss you arrest? It just went on say-so. Ludicrious in my eyes.

but the overall statistics show no evidence whatsoever of widespread discrimination against young men.

I don't believe those statistics for one minute. There done by the RSA with no independent oversight.Sorry, but I'm a complete cynic.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Richie15

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Simple question I always put to conspiracy theorists, "why would they?"

ironclaw

Hi Folks,

Ok, before we get into a heated debate. As the saying goes, it ain't worth it

Well, those are completely different situations, ethically and legally.

Very true and couldn't agree more. I just feel they should talk to each person about their test. I'd be all for Video playback. I may be wrong but they do it in the UK? How much better would someone feel if they knew exactly where they went wrong? I know I would have.

You believe that the RSA is systematically discriminating against young male drivers and then covering its tracks by issuing fabricated statistics?

No, not entirely. The national average is circa 57.2%. Thats near as makes very little difference of 3 in 5 people pass. That seems abit too neat a figure to me. The average also is never over 70%. So that means for every 5 people, two of which fail and repeat, the RSA now make €525 (Assuming each person is Cat

Now, in a recession, wouldn't it make sense to fail a person than pass them?

Imagine, You need to keep your job, so as long as there is a demand (A backlog) you'll keep it. A stockbroker would be fairly useless if everyone in the world could naturally trade and read the market. But not everyone can, so you have a demand on your job. Hence you keep it.

So would it not make more sense to fail the odd person, as most will re-apply. Hence maintaining a backlog. Hence the RSA don't care how long you wait. You pay up front so the money is earning interest for the 8 weeks.

Just my two cents and its by now means a dictation, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

NukaCola

ironclaw wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Ok, before we get into a heated debate. As the saying goes, it ain't worth it


Very true and couldn't agree more. I just feel they should talk to each person about their test. I'd be all for Video playback. I may be wrong but they do it in the UK? How much better would someone feel if they knew exactly where they went wrong? I know I would have.


No, not entirely. The national average is circa 57.2%. Thats near as makes very little difference of 3 in 5 people pass. That seems abit too neat a figure to me. The average also is never over 70%. So that means for every 5 people, two of which fail and repeat, the RSA now make €525 (Assuming each person is Cat

Now, in a recession, wouldn't it make sense to fail a person than pass them?

Imagine, You need to keep your job, so as long as there is a demand (A backlog) you'll keep it. A stockbroker would be fairly useless if everyone in the world could naturally trade and read the market. But not everyone can, so you have a demand on your job. Hence you keep it.

So would it not make more sense to fail the odd person, as most will re-apply. Hence maintaining a backlog. Hence the RSA don't care how long you wait. You pay up front so the money is earning interest for the 8 weeks.

Just my two cents and its by now means a dictation, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

It doesnt really make any sense unless you have a very warped view on it

timmywex

ironclaw wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Ok, before we get into a heated debate. As the saying goes, it ain't worth it


Very true and couldn't agree more. I just feel they should talk to each person about their test. I'd be all for Video playback. I may be wrong but they do it in the UK? How much better would someone feel if they knew exactly where they went wrong? I know I would have.


No, not entirely. The national average is circa 57.2%. Thats near as makes very little difference of 3 in 5 people pass. That seems abit too neat a figure to me. The average also is never over 70%. So that means for every 5 people, two of which fail and repeat, the RSA now make €525 (Assuming each person is Cat

Now, in a recession, wouldn't it make sense to fail a person than pass them?

Imagine, You need to keep your job, so as long as there is a demand (A backlog) you'll keep it. A stockbroker would be fairly useless if everyone in the world could naturally trade and read the market. But not everyone can, so you have a demand on your job. Hence you keep it.

So would it not make more sense to fail the odd person, as most will re-apply. Hence maintaining a backlog. Hence the RSA don't care how long you wait. You pay up front so the money is earning interest for the 8 weeks.

Just my two cents and its by now means a dictation, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Now, one problem with that, the rsa lose money on every test, even at the higher €75 rate!

Simon Jester

I would think that the 120 euro figure is BS. There is no possible way that the test could cost that much (unless they happen to be stocking the toilet roll dispensers with 50s)

brian076

Simon Jester wrote: »

I would think that the 120 euro figure is BS. There is no possible way that the test could cost that much (unless they happen to be stocking the toilet roll dispensers with 50s)

If you consider the cost of paying 150 testers, 50 back-up office staff and the running & upkeep of 50+ test centres it could be close to €120. When you also consider that this is a public service body, it would not be the most cost efficient organisation in Ireland, so €120 per test is definitely a possibility

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

driverite

yep brian,I also heard €120ish per test that sgs were getting per test, but they would only get paid if the test was conducted so any non conducted tests and no shows. I worked a saturday one time and out of 9 tests, 1 person turned up,

So with the test fee gone up, people will have to take it more seriously than they have already.

Sunjammer

driverite wrote: »

yep brian,I also heard €120ish per test that sgs were getting per test, but they would only get paid if the test was conducted so any non conducted tests and no shows. I worked a saturday one time and out of 9 tests, 1 person turned up,

So with the test fee gone up, people will have to take it more seriously than they have already.

I doubt that €75 will have any real effect on test "no shows" its only an extra €37 a year to those people who make the habit of not showing up in order to get another 12 month LP. The simple solution would be to create a zero tolerance or lets say a 2 strike rule where by a no show = no new LP and it may help reduce waiting times by cutting out this nonsense of no shows

Simon Jester

If they were really serious about no-shows they would ask for a deposit, maybe 100 euro that is refunded after taking a test (whether pass or fail).

John Mason

I failed first time with SGS, so a completely stupid reason - i feel.

and passed then with RSA. The RSA man shouted at me for about 5 minutes on why he didnt want to pass me and why i was a bad driver - i got 5 random blue marks

Buffman

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

The RSA man shouted at me for about 5 minutes on why he didnt want to pass me and why i was a bad driver - i got 5 random blue marks

Surely he wouldn't have passed you if he taught you were that bad. Did he really shout at you?

John Mason

Buffman wrote: »

Surely he wouldn't have passed you if he taught you were that bad. Did he really shout at you?

yip, he nearly had me in tears. (which is a hard thing to do )

he main problem was not slowing whenever i seen a pedestrian in case they ran out in front of me.

greyc

Sunjammer wrote: »

I doubt that €75 will have any real effect on test "no shows" its only an extra €37 a year to those people who make the habit of not showing up in order to get another 12 month LP. The simple solution would be to create a zero tolerance or lets say a 2 strike rule where by a no show = no new LP and it may help reduce waiting times by cutting out this nonsense of no shows

I think where it might help is that you're not going to get people sending in 3 or 4 applications for tests to try and beat the backlog and then not turn up or notify the RSA if they pass 1st time

Sunjammer

greyc wrote: »

I think where it might help is that you're not going to get people sending in 3 or 4 applications for tests to try and beat the backlog and then not turn up or notify the RSA if they pass 1st time

Surely the RSA could stop that practice too by only allowing one application per "driver number" on their system at any one time, It should not be too difficult for their computer system to handle in this day and age.... or would it? :rolleyes::)