come all ye skeptics - Physics, Parallel Universes, String Theory and the Paranormal

iamhunted

This is great stuff. Three hours of video (in 10 min clips) about the string theory in physics and how it ties in with parallel universes.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Skeptics (as in how the word is used round these parts) - what is going on here? Is this info wrong or is it showing that maybe there is more going on than we understand?

Zombrex

iamhunted wrote: »

This is great stuff. Three hours of video (in 10 min clips) about the string theory in physics and how it ties in with parallel universes.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Skeptics (as in how the word is used round these parts) - what is going on here? Is this info wrong or is it showing that maybe there is more going on than we understand?

What is going on here is that scientists are attempting to figure out the fundamental forces that make up the universe and are increasingly finding out that the universe is very weird and often defies human intuition. And there is a heck of a lot of stuff going on at the core levels of the universe that we do not understand.

Why do you think sceptics would be some how opposed to that? |Every time science discoveres that the universe works in a very weird way it simply demonstrates the silliness of humans trying to explain unexplained phenomena by merely guessing at explanations (which is basically what "the paranormal" is), since we tend to guess things within a limited range of our own personal experience and this often has nothing to do with what is going on in the universe.

So that is exactly the type of thing sceptics rail against, people making up explanations for things without backing them up in any proper fashion. If someone sees a strange light that is being cased by the decay of exotic particles they are far more likely to say "that is a ghost!" than they are to say (or understand) the decay of some exotic particle field.

sink

Watched it a while ago. It's also available in 3 hour long parts on google video.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

What has this got to do with the paranormal?

iamhunted

whats parallell universes got to do with the paranormal? Are you in the right forum?

"Why do you think sceptics would be some how opposed to that?"

Skeptics by the true sense of the word wouldnt be, but the cynics in the skeptics forum have a habit of thinking that a line of thought cant exist until science points the way. Deep thinking obviously isnt a top subject round these parts.

iamhunted

i do love the way though that all of a sudden parallell universes arent paranormal. you crack me up in here yous do.

Zombrex

What "line of thought" are you thinking of?

Which branch of paranormal claims do you think this research vindicates?

iamhunted

oh right - skeptics have never claimed other dimensions to be paranormal or am I mistaken? How complicated is this in reality that I have to seem to be explaining so much?

Vindicates nothing btw. It does show though that most of science isnt as closed and small minded as many cynics are (i think some call themselves 'skeptics' - obviously dont understand the difference).

Why do you need black and white, yes or no answers to things? It really comes down to are you going to keep open minded, have an idea that things could go one way or the other (the skeptical point of view) or will you assume that everything is make believe until science says its ok to believe in it? (the cynical point of view)

A lot of people in this 'skeptics' forum are the last one.

sink

Paranormal is a general term that describes unusual experiences that lack a scientific explanation e.g. ghosts, telepathy, alien abductions. Individuals claim to have experience of these phenomena without any scientific evidence to back them up. Parallel universes are not based upon any sort of experience of unexplained phenomena encountered by people in their daily lives, they are instead based upon philosophical and scientific hypothesis which have made their way into popular culture.

iamhunted

lots of things happen without scientific information to back it up. We still havent worked out the big bang but that doesnt mean we dont exist. Going by your theory there, since we cant back up the big bang then really, its effects shouldnt be happening. That makes no sense at all.

iamhunted

sink wrote: »

Parallel universes are not based upon any sort of experience of unexplained phenomena encountered by people in their daily lives, they are instead based upon philosophical and scientific hypothesis which have made their way into popular culture.

That shouldbe framed as here we now witness how a 'skeptic' is currently trying to change the rules. move the goalposts and pretend no-one viewed parallell universes (dimensions really) as paranormal. Einstein didnt, but then people thought he was a bit funny anyway with his theories on quantum physics.

I must be living in a different world as where I come from, parallell worlds where the thing of sci fi movies - but i think this really outlines how little 'skeptics' (again, not real skeptics, but in terms of this forum) seem to actually understand about the paranormal community more than anything else.

bubonicus

String THEORY and parallel universes are testable claims, Actually now going to be tested at CERN(whenever it gets ramped up).

I don't see the issue.

sink

iamhunted wrote: »

That shouldbe framed as here we now witness how a 'skeptic' is currently trying to change the rules. move the goalposts and pretend no-one viewed parallell universes (dimensions really) as paranormal. Einstein didnt, but then people thought he was a bit funny anyway with his theories on quantum physics.

I must be living in a different world as where I come from, parallell worlds where the thing of sci fi movies - but i think this really outlines how little 'skeptics' seem to actually understand about the paranormal community more than anything else.

Sci-fi does not necessarily have anything to do with paranormal hence the name science-fiction. Good Sci-fi is always based upon real or possible scientific hypothesis. But I'll grant you that a lot of sci-fi does crossover to paranormal and fantasy.

iamhunted

would you have said the same thing 10 years ago before it was a testable claim? I think not ...... (thanks for proving my point btw)

iamhunted

sink wrote: »

Sci-fi does not necessarily have anything to do with paranormal hence the name science-fiction. Good Sci-fi is always based upon real or possible scientific hypothesis. But I'll grant you that a lot of sci-fi does crossover to paranormal and fantasy.

Im not really into this tit for tat posting, but are you really telling me youve never heard the theory that ghosts are people from another universe? Shouldnt you educate yourself about paranormal theories before starting such an argument?

sink

iamhunted wrote: »

would you have said the same thing 10 years ago before it was a testable claim? I think not ...... (thanks for proving my point btw)

Paranormal includes Cryptozoology, Forteana, Ghosts, Haunted locations, Mysticism, New Age, Occult, Parapsychology, Psychics, Supernatural, UFOs, USO, UFO sightings, Ghost Stations. It does not include nor has it ever included theoretical physics.

Oh and forgot to add in my last post, parallel universes and extra dimensions are completely different in theoretical physics.

bubonicus

iamhunted wrote: »

would you have said the same thing 10 years ago before it was a testable claim? I think not ...... (thanks for proving my point btw)

I wouldn't have drawn a conlcusion either way....I would have accepted it as a thing of Science FICTION simply because it hadn't been tested. which it still is.

sink

iamhunted wrote: »

Im not really into this tit for tat posting, but are you really telling me youve never heard the theory that ghosts are people from another universe? Shouldnt you educate yourself about paranormal theories before starting such an argument?

Ghosts from parallel universes is definitely paranormal gibberish and has little to do with the models from theoretical physics beyond robbing the name.

Zombrex

iamhunted wrote: »

oh right - skeptics have never claimed other dimensions to be paranormal or am I mistaken? How complicated is this in reality that I have to seem to be explaining so much?

Sceptics don't tend to make claims about other dimensions that are undetectable.

They do tend to expect evidence of said dimensions when others claim they exist. That is what being a sceptic is, someone who is sceptical of claims made by others and expects such claims to be backed up by something tangible.

iamhunted wrote: »

Vindicates nothing btw. It does show though that most of science isnt as closed and small minded as many cynics are (i think some call themselves 'skeptics' - obviously dont understand the difference).

I'm not sure what you mean?

Science expects, pretty much demands, that claims about a phenomena are backed up by rigorous examination and testing to a high standard (the scientific method).

So do sceptics.

Until this happens both science and sceptics in general remain sceptical of claims made about said phenomena.

iamhunted wrote: »

Why do you need black and white, yes or no answers to things? It really comes down to are you going to keep open minded, have an idea that things could go one way or the other (the sceptical point of view) or will you assume that everything is make believe until science says its ok to believe in it? (the cynical point of view)

Well in my experience there is a difference between being open minded ("I don't know what that was") and being set on believing a particular explanation without justifiable reason ("That was a ghost"), which to me is a form of close mindedness.

The most open minded thing a person can say about an unexplained phenomena is that the phenomena is unexplained.

That though tends to be rarely what believers in the paranormal do though, they tend to embrace explanations that they cannot back up.

This is what sceptics argue against. Not that the phenomena isn't explained by the explanation put forward but that those putting forward the explanation don't have anything to back that up with.

And thus sceptics are sceptical of said explanation.

The fact that science is getting close to discovering if other dimensions exist or not doesn't in anyway vindicate say someone 10 years ago claiming that "ghosts" are "spirits" trapped in other dimensions.

That person didn't know that to be true back then and he doesn't know that to be true now. They were guessing back then and still guess now. That is the problem with paranormal explanations, they are just guesses. Even if someone by accident happens to guess about something that later it turns out actually might exist, it was still just a guess.