Polish refused job offer in favour of social welfare

memo_to_all

please dont let this decend into a typical non-national bashing thread.

Anyway..my company has been doing relatively well over the last couple of months. I currently employ 26 full time staff. but having captured a few new orders, got new lines up and running..the end result being I started a few people on a casual basis untill the new work established itself.

One guy over the past week looked pretty handy and did his work well. so today I offered him a full time job working roughly 45 hours a week...but he turned me down saying it would effect his social welfare..unless I could pay him cash!!!...which I quickly put him straight on.

The point I want to make or the question I want to know, is how our State has created the mechcanisims by which people can take advantage of our welfare systems such as this guy is doing.

leitrim lad

your very lucky, i had 50 employed at one stage in the (boom) down to 10 now and cant garuntee them a months work,
the answer i have to your question is stability, the money this person gets every week is stable, from socail, the income you generate and please dont take offence, could end after a couple of weeks, therefore would be classed by this person as unstable,
as they probably have literally fought for their social money and to give it up ,and then to have to go trough the hole process again of waiting 12 weeks for their claim again, i had a similar situation with a secratery, and she works 7 hours a week for me now

Kristopherus

Report him to DSFA. He'll be 1 less sciving off the state.

dh0661

And we have heard the stories, true or false.

The signs on building sites in Eastern Europe say NO IRISH NEED APPLY.

stepbar

memo_to_all wrote: »

please dont let this decend into a typical non-national bashing thread.

Anyway..my company has been doing relatively well over the last couple of months. I currently employ 26 full time staff. but having captured a few new orders, got new lines up and running..the end result being I started a few people on a casual basis untill the new work established itself.

One guy over the past week looked pretty handy and did his work well. so today I offered him a full time job working roughly 45 hours a week...but he turned me down saying it would effect his social welfare..unless I could pay him cash!!!...which I quickly put him straight on.

The point I want to make or the question I want to know, is how our State has created the mechcanisims by which people can take advantage of our welfare systems such as this guy is doing.

You should have reported him to the social for refusing to take a job when it was offered. I believe you can be cut from the dole for refusing to take a job if one is suitably qualified??

pcardin

Kristopherus wrote: »

Report him to DSFA. He'll be 1 less sciving off the state.

FFS!!! For what?! If you are on the dole you are allowed to work part time. He didn't do anything wrong refusing full time offer as he is more safe on the dole and didn't want to lose it. Reporter yobaniy! :mad:

Mr. Frost

memo_to_all wrote: »

please dont let this decend into a typical non-national bashing thread.

Then why mention the fact the guy's Polish? What difference does it really make? Plenty of skiving Irish too.

pcardin

dh0661 wrote: »

And we have heard the stories, true or false.

The signs on building sites in Eastern Europe say NO IRISH NEED APPLY.

Yes it is very sad truth. I've seen signs like this not only in Eastern Europe but also in Spain and Germany. Ask yourself, why?

dvpower

memo_to_all wrote: »

please dont let this decend into a typical non-national bashing thread.

If you didn't want this to descend into a typical non-national bashing thread, why identify the guy as Polish? You can be sure that the kind of behavior you outline isn't limited to Polish people. What has his nationality got to do with it at all?

pcardin

stepbar wrote: »

You should have reported him to the social for refusing to take a job when it was offered. I believe you can be cut from the dole for refusing to take a job if one is suitably qualified??

Imagine yourself being on dole and other benefits getting over 400 per week and then you have a job offer. Full time job for 20k pa. You do quick calculation in your head and guess what, you will stay on dole. And then comes me and reports you to Social Welfare....

jhegarty

pcardin wrote: »

FFS!!! For what?! If you are on the dole you are allowed to work part time. He didn't do anything wrong refusing full time offer as he is more safe on the dole and didn't want to lose it. Reporter yobaniy! :mad:

Because the dole is for people who are seeking work. Not for people who don't want a job.

dh0661

pcardin wrote: »

Yes it is very sad truth. I've seen signs like this not only in Eastern Europe but also in Spain and Germany. Ask yourself, why?

I'm not involved in construction. Buy I have heard of stories of Irish construction bosses and sub-contractors making life very hard for all immigrant workers.

pcardin

jhegarty wrote: »

Because the dole is for people who are seeking work. Not for people who don't want a job.

And what about yourself? Would you better have full time job with little money or dole with much higher income? This is not a case that he didn't want a job. He just did his calculation and realized that he will be better on dole moneywise. Maybe OP offered him 20k pa.

Lobelia Overhill

stepbar wrote: »

You should have reported him to the social for refusing to take a job when it was offered. I believe you can be cut from the dole for refusing to take a job if one is suitably qualified??

Yes, but you are allowed to work and claim dole, for instance if you worked a 3 day week, you can claim for the other 3 days (you don't get dole for Sundays for some reason [unless it's changed now?]) there isn't[wasnt'] any restriction on what the job was, or how much you earned, so if you were a lecturer getting 15 quid an hour twice a week ... :eek:

IIRC when I signed on the dole (back in the 90s) I was told I was allowed to earn some amount of money a week without it affecting my dole - I can't remember how much it was, but I do remember being stunned!

Apparently you can't do voluntary work when you're on the dole as it stops you taking up a proper job offer ...

T'is a quare system to be sure. Needs a bit of a shake up.

jhegarty

pcardin wrote: »

And what about yourself? Would you better have full time job with little money or dole with much higher income? This is not a case that he didn't want a job. He just did his calculation and realized that he will be better on dole moneywise. Maybe OP offered him 20k pa.

Of course. I can't imagine ever choosing not to work.

pcardin

jhegarty wrote: »

Of course. I can't imagine ever choosing not to work.

So you better get 200e per week than 400e? Is that what you're saying? :eek:

albert-bundy

report him simple as that

Kristopherus wrote: »

Report him to DSFA. He'll be 1 less sciving off the state.

DubTony

memo_to_all wrote: »

The point I want to make or the question I want to know, is how our State has created the mechcanisims by which people can take advantage of our welfare systems such as this guy is doing.

So let's address the question.

This has been going on for a very long time. In 1988 my father opened a small shop in Crumlin. As the business grew we tried to hire people to fill a few positions. OK, I'm talking about shop assistant work here, not exactly top of the earning scale, but a job nonetheless. At a rough guess I'd say that about 75% of applicants for jobs over the next 5 years weren't actually job applicants at all, but simply people looking for us to stamp a form to "prove" they'd looked for a job.

The next amazing thing was the number of people who'd come in with a welfare cheque made out to DID (or another electrical retailer), and ask us to cash it. The cheque was from the relieving officer who was paying for a new cooker / washing machine for this welfare recipient.

An ex-employee of mine recently got a council house (while earning €22K a year) and was given €3,500 to furnish it while paying less than €4K a year rent.

The problem is that over the years (at least 3 decades) the state has allowed welfare to get out of control. It has to be remembered that after Haughey told us to tighten our belts in the early 80's his government went on to borrow money to pay social welfare payments instead of addressing the issue. The psyche is all wrong, and that's not just the people who claim, it's also the people who pay. As a result too many people are born into the welfare system and know it so well that they quickly realise that they need never work. A recent example I heard was a traveller woman collecting over €45K a year in legitimate welfare entitlements. Unfortunately it may never be fixed. Political suicide is a topic for another forum.

albert-bundy

True the polish think the irish are no good useless people and need them because we can not do the jobs...they never understood we did not want most of those jobs but do now so bye bye pawel bye bye magda thank you for your time but the happy days are over enjoy your flight

dh0661 wrote: »

And we have heard the stories, true or false.

The signs on building sites in Eastern Europe say NO IRISH NEED APPLY.

pcardin

albert-bundy wrote: »

True the polish think the irish are no good useless people and need them because we can not do the jobs...they never understood we did not want most of those jobs but do now so bye bye pawel bye bye magda thank you for your time but the happy days are over enjoy your flight

Dear Albert Bundy,

It is time to go away from Ireland. Thank you so much for the time we spent together and thank you for undeceiving our eyes and show us reality. Now we can clearly see that actually irish are not nice people as we were thinking and their hospitality is a myth.They are very selfish, envious and ambivalent.Thank you for everything you have take from us and thank you for reporting us everywhere and for everything. And please dear Albert do not come and visit us as my mother want us to avoid any contacts with dorky guys. Goodbye Albert.

Yours sincerely,
Pawel and Magda

albert-bundy

dear pawel and magda
bye bye you will be so missed for your sense of humor and honesty ................may i suggest you open a comedy club in poland you people love a good laugh ..........oh sorry getting you mixed up with the russians again funny guys those ivans

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

albert-bundy

ah can you read the thread above mine where the irish are referred to in several not very nice manners or is that acceptable and please its albert not bundy

pcardin

albert-bundy wrote: »

dear pawel and magda
bye bye you will be so missed for your sense of humor and honesty ................may i suggest you open a comedy club in poland you people love a good laugh ..........oh sorry getting you mixed up with the russians again funny guys those ivans

Nice!
I'm not Russian. And I'm not polish either. I'm not even from Eastern Europe. And the fact that you can't differ polish from russians or spanish from portuguese is a long time no breaking news for me. Oh Albert, you should live in US actually.

albert-bundy

ah ok truce lets not start on america ok

gags89

just on them signs that a joke i didnt pick up on or is that actually going on??

anyone care to discuss why?

leitrim lad

i have heard of those signs aswell,
you could however put it to him in such a way to either take the extra hours, or no job,or course give him notice, and then he has a choice if he takes the job, he drops the dole, if he doesnt take the job then consider reporting it to the socail,
you can also use the economic down turn to tell him that there are a line of people ready to fill his position, if he doesnt want the hours

pcardin

leitrim lad wrote: »

i have heard of those signs aswell,
you could however put it to him in such a way to either take the extra hours, or no job,or course give him notice, and then he has a choice if he takes the job, he drops the dole, if he doesnt take the job then consider reporting it to the socail,
you can also use the economic down turn to tell him that there are a line of people ready to fill his position, if he doesnt want the hours

He just wanted to get any salary higher than dole, don't you get it?! You would do the same and don't tell me you wouldn't. Maybe OP offered him salary way less than he is geting from social welfare. Do your own calculation and think what would you do in such situation. There is no scam. He still has his bills that need to be paid and there is difference if you can get 400e from social welfare and be at home or take a full time job for 200e + spend money for tansport to get to job. You can't blame him that he refused job offer with so low salary that even social welfare is paying more. :mad:

An Capall Dubh

This guy's got to be reported!! There's no way we should put up with paying for these kind of people's living anymore (that's regardless of their race, colour, religion etc.). This guy is just plain lazy. If was offered 45hrs a week that would put him on circa 20K a year on minimum wage which is what a lot of people out there earn and don't complain about and especially don't sit on their holes and draw the dole.

Do your duty as a taxpayer and not a tax waster, REPORT HIM!!!!!!

leitrim lad

as an employer and a tax payer myself , i have to say i agree with an capall dubh

and im sure few or none of us would get away with this , in poland , the land paddy paid for but was refused entry

albert-bundy

see you well know that a full time job in ireland pays a minimum of 330 odd euro a week your just stirring it bashing irish at every chance and then reporting us when we react to your posts. no one is in full time job getting anything like 200 euro

pcardin wrote: »

He just wanted to get any salary higher than dole, don't you get it?! You would do the same and don't tell me you wouldn't. Maybe OP offered him salary way less than he is geting from social welfare. Do your own calculation and think what would you do in such situation. There is no scam. He still has his bills that need to be paid and there is difference if you can get 400e from social welfare and be at home or take a full time job for 200e + spend money for tansport to get to job. You can't blame him that he refused job offer with so low salary that even social welfare is paying more. :mad:

delllat

Mr. Frost wrote: »

Then why mention the fact the guy's Polish? What difference does it really make? Plenty of skiving Irish too.

the reason it makes a differnce is that our own irish scum are our problem

eastern european spongers arent our problem,they came in to "work" so we shouldnt have to support them when they decide the irish dole is plenty high to live comfortably on

delllat

pcardin wrote: »

So you better get 200e per week than 400e? Is that what you're saying? :eek:

if a man gets 205 on the social and another 70-80 for rent every week do you really think hes going to jump at a minimum wage job?

when u break it down hes doing those 40hours of work for an extra 50quid

so hes making about 1.50 an hour for the work

would you work `40hours for €50? anyone ?

axer

delllat wrote: »

if a man gets 205 on the social and another 70-80 for rent every week do you really think hes going to jump at a minimum wage job?

when u break it down hes doing those 40hours of work for an extra 50quid

so hes making about 1.50 an hour for the work

would you work `40hours for €50? anyone ?

Thats the crux of it. There is no incentive for this guy to take the job no matter what nationality he is.

This is a failure of government - the guy is just using his head.

An Capall Dubh

Is €50 a week not incentive enough, when every cent means a lot more now than it did 4-5 years ago. It's time to stop living in the lazy land of money for nothing attitudes and time for us to cop on and realise that we all should contribute to society, not take from it at other peoples expense.

albert-bundy

guys been old enough to remember the 80s do not under estimate the effect sitting at home on your arse will have on a person its soul destroying you think its using your head sorry but its the opposite,and incentive is pride and a feeling of been useful .its early days yet these are massive social problems yet to be realised this time around

axer wrote: »

Thats the crux of it. There is no incentive for this guy to take the job no matter what nationality he is.

This is a failure of government - the guy is just using his head.

Kristopherus

If he's bringing in 400 yoyos on the dole, the he's got to have dependants. In that case he can get FIS if his wages are below a certain level. It's not that he dose'nt know it exists. They all do.

axer

An Capall Dubh wrote: »

Is €50 a week not incentive enough, when every cent means a lot more now than it did 4-5 years ago. It's time to stop living in the lazy land of money for nothing attitudes and time for us to cop on and realise that we all should contribute to society, not take from it at other peoples expense.

Obviously not for the guy in question. Its too easy to live in lazy land in Ireland. The government need to half the dole for everyone to 100 euro. Then there will be an incentive to work and those on minimum wage:
Min wage 8.65 * 39 hours per week = 337.35
Dole 204.30 + rent allowance (maybe 100-150 euro per week) = 304.30 - 354.30. (not even including any other benefits).

It is maddness and the government need to cop on.

stepbar

axer wrote: »

Obviously not for the guy in question. Its too easy to live in lazy land in Ireland. The government need to half the dole for everyone to 100 euro. Then there will be an incentive to work and those on minimum wage:
Min wage 8.65 * 39 hours per week = 337.35
Dole 204.30 + rent allowance (maybe 100-150 euro per week) = 304.30 - 354.30. (not even including any other benefits).

It is maddness and the government need to cop on.

TBH 100 eur a week would just about keep food on the table. It's not realistic to expect someone to live on 100 eur a week in this country. There's SFA jobs in the country at the moment at any level. The Gov allowed this suitation to happen where by the price of everything was allowed to creep up and up. Thus the need was felt to increase social welfare payments to keep in line. Like a junkie you can't just have them go Cold Turkey, they have to be weened off bit by bit.

axer

stepbar wrote: »

TBH 100 eur a week would just about keep food on the table. It's not realistic to expect someone to live on 100 eur a week in this country. There's SFA jobs in the country at the moment at any level. The Gov allowed this suitation to happen where by the price of everything was allowed to creep up and up. Thus the need was felt to increase social welfare payments to keep in line. Like a junkie you can't just have them go Cold Turkey, they have to be weened off bit by bit.

If the dole increases with inflation it should at least decrease with deflation.

There are still jobs in this country but people are often unwilling to take them - and why would they when they can get the same amount from being on the dole as they would on a minimum wage job.

The dole is supposed to be enough just to survive i.e. just about keep the food on the table. Your accomodation is paid by rent allowance. Your medical bills are paid by the medical card. What more does the basic person need?

stepbar

axer wrote: »

If the dole increases with inflation it should at least decrease with deflation.

There are still jobs in this country but people are often unwilling to take them - and why would they when they can get the same amount from being on the dole as they would on a minimum wage job.

The dole is supposed to be enough just to survive i.e. just about keep the food on the table. Your accomodation is paid by rent allowance. Your medical bills are paid by the medical card. What more does the basic person need?

How can you say that with certainty? Have you been on the dole? Do you know anyone who refused a job? Only this week was someone telling me that an architect who go laid off recently was told he was over qualified for a data entry position (which he applied for with the full entention of taking). With employers like that you were better off on the dole.

axer

stepbar wrote: »

How can you say that with certainty? Have you been on the dole? Do you know anyone who refused a job? Only this week was someone telling me that an architect who go laid off recently was told he was over qualified for a data entry position (which he applied for with the full entention of taking). With employers like that you were better off on the dole.

I know people who don't bother even looking for a job because they are earning more by being on the dole. I think cutting the dole in half to say 100 euro is aimed at the long term unemployed person than the person who has built up prsi stamps and is claiming job seekers benefit.

Job seekers benefit (PRSI) should remain at 204.30 whilst the dole should be cut to 100 euro. That will encourage people to go get a job. Worst case scenario have the first year of dole at 150 then the second and subsequent years at 100.

This is not just aimed at recession times but should remain that way during any future booming years too. Since during booming years there are generally more jobs available and even though inflation will rise thus making the 100 euro less valuable there is less of an excuse for people not finding work.

pcardin

albert-bundy wrote: »

see you well know that a full time job in ireland pays a minimum of 330 odd euro a week your just stirring it bashing irish at every chance and then reporting us when we react to your posts. no one is in full time job getting anything like 200 euro

Oh poor Albert. So you are allowed to sh1t on foreingers and they should stay silent whatever crap you are posting?! Is that what you're saying?

Heisenberg.

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