Nothing on beer/wine/spirits in the budget

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Nice one!

yoyo

Great

Nick

mayordenis

I'll drink to that.

rediguana

The next budget can't be far away

Anyway, surely the crazy Brians found some other way to put their fat-cat paws in your pocket?!?

the beer revolu

Did I hear something about hitting low price alcohol?
Not a bad idea imo!

guildofevil

Forgive me for not celebrating that our extortionate alcohol prices will not get even worse. Won't increase the number of boots full of booze coming from the North but won't decrease them either. Another uninspired "do nothing" policy from a government that has no clue how to handle the situation it helped put the country in.

yknaa

Letter in the Times today
On a recent trip to Dublin I bought two pints of beer in a suburban pub which cost €9.60. In London last week I bought two pints of real ale for £3.58. When was the last time anyone got change from €5 for two pints in Dublin? There seems to be very little price competition between pubs in Ireland.

Whether this is due to price fixing or whether pubs find it necessary in order to turn a profit after paying taxes and the breweries I do not know, but the fact that a pint of Guinness is cheaper in London makes me think otherwise.

The British seem to have revived or maintained a tradition of independent craft brewing which you don’t get in Ireland. I am surprised that more Irish pubs do not brew their own beer to offer customers more choice than the usual Guinness or lager options. The real ale movement doesn’t seem to have caught on in Ireland, but Irish beer drinkers definitely need a grass-roots movement to campaign for their interests. – Yours, etc,

BeerNut

IrishCraftBrewer's reply (such a campaign does exist, and we're it) has been sent.

On the price fixing thing, the Competition Authority wants to know why the heads of the publicans' organisations haven't been jailed: http://www.barkeeper.ie/News_Item.asp?News_ID=1704

dereko1969

If they got 2 pints of decent quality real ale for £3.58 then they probably went to a Wetherspoons who are probably one of the few chains selling beer at that price which is in essence a loss-leader (or at cost).

wetherspoons aren't the nicest of pubs and such pricing is not sustainable and would definitely not be sustainable in ireland due to the size of the market. in a way wetherspoons are price-fixing themselves to try and force other local pubs out of existence which will end up reducing choice in the long-term, not a model that could or should be encouraged.

Brockagh

guildofevil wrote: »

Forgive me for not celebrating that our extortionate alcohol prices will not get even worse. Won't increase the number of boots full of booze coming from the North but won't decrease them either. Another uninspired "do nothing" policy from a government that has no clue how to handle the situation it helped put the country in.

I think part of the reason they are so high is that we have a lot of alcohol problems in our society.

Brockagh

BeerNut wrote: »

IrishCraftBrewer's reply (such a campaign does exist, and we're it) has been sent.

On the price fixing thing, the Competition Authority wants to know why the heads of the publicans' organisations haven't been jailed: http://www.barkeeper.ie/News_Item.asp?News_ID=1704

In America, you'd be jailed for such things.

guildofevil

Brockagh wrote: »

I think part of the reason they are so high is that we have a lot of alcohol problems in our society.

I have to say, higher prices doesn't appear to be doing anything to help.

Brockagh

guildofevil wrote: »

I have to say, higher prices doesn't appear to be doing anything to help.

You could be right of course, but I'm not sure how you'd measure how much more of a problem it would be if prices were lower, without lowering them, of course.

Alcohol consumption has dropped off since the recession, but I doubt it's the antisocial ones or the ones with drink problems that have reduced their consumption, sure enough. So you're probably right.

BeerNut

Our letter didn't get printed, but the one that did is pretty much on the money.

glennb

ye pubs making their own beer would be a good idea because when i was in portugal i was drinking local larger (i dont realy like larger ) for 1 euro it to me was horrible but i would sooner pay the 1 euro for that than 4 euro for the cider they had in the bar

MattKane

We had a funny feeling the budget wouldn't hit the vino (this time). The border was killing them, and still is. There's a gap that needs to be addressed if consumers are to get a better deal.

BeerNut

MattKane wrote: »

There's a gap that needs to be addressed if consumers are to get a better deal.

If a better deal for consumers was a concern here, there wouldn't be the imminent move to rig the market against the bigger retailers.

MattKane

BeerNut wrote: »

If a better deal for consumers was a concern here, there wouldn't be the imminent move to rig the market against the bigger retailers.

Fair point. I just mean if duty excise on alcohol came more in line with the UK, consumers would get a better deal in the Republic because they wouldn't have the north to make comparisons with, and as a result we wouldn't have to border hop for cheaper drink. I also realise the exchange rates have been a big problem.

Ultimately they did the right thing this time in freezing the duty, even if it wasn't in the interest of consumers.

BeerNut

MattKane wrote: »

I just mean if duty excise on alcohol came more in line with the UK, consumers would get a better deal in the Republic because they wouldn't have the north to make comparisons with, and as a result we wouldn't have to border hop for cheaper drink. I also realise the exchange rates have been a big problem.

I think the exchange rates are a huge thing, compounded by the VAT difference. The excise duty rates are fairly similar, aren't they? £16.47 per hectolitre per cent of alcohol in beer for instance, vs. €19.87. £214 vs. €328.09 per hectolitre of wine: not exactly different enough to send people scurrying over the border, I'd have thought. Certainly not different enough to justify the massive difference in retail prices.

MattKane wrote: »

Ultimately they did the right thing this time in freezing the duty, even if it wasn't in the interest of consumers.

Well there was nothing to be gained by doing it, and it would have annoyed voters even more. As guildofevil said above: it's not really appropriate to pat them on the back for doing nothing. I do nothing on a regular basis, yet no-one starts threads to congratulate me

MattKane

BeerNut wrote: »

I think the exchange rates are a huge thing, compounded by the VAT difference. The excise duty rates are fairly similar, aren't they? £16.47 per hectolitre per cent of alcohol in beer for instance, vs. €19.87. £214 vs. €328.09 per hectolitre of wine: not exactly different enough to send people scurrying over the border, I'd have thought. Certainly not different enough to justify the massive difference in retail prices.

Well there was nothing to be gained by doing it, and it would have annoyed voters even more. As guildofevil said above: it's not really appropriate to pat them on the back for doing nothing. I do nothing on a regular basis, yet no-one starts threads to congratulate me

LOL - yeah, they defo shouldn't have a thread to congratulate the govt doing nothing.

But honestly, our margins are no higher than UK retailers. We've done our research and we're from the north. Duty in the Republic on wine is considerably higher, as well as VAT, as you know. Mike says it all in these two blog posts

IrishWhiskeyCha

It's the blody importers and wholesalers etc who are taking the preverbials on irish prices and it is through out retail not just Alcohol.

I was talking to a few retailer friends and both were saying they could not buy certain items for less than they were on sale in the Highstreet in UK. :eek:

We've already seen BMW dealers directly importing from UK.

BeerNut

MattKane wrote: »

Mike says it all in these two blog posts

No, I don't think he does. He's just having a go at supermarkets in the Republic, with no mention of how our VAT and duty rates are different from the UK's. No mention of the UK at all, in fact. The same difference in approach between supermarkets and human-run retailers exists in the UK, I'd have thought.

MattKane wrote: »

Duty in the Republic on wine is considerably higher, as well as VAT, as you know.

See, I don't think it is. Not enough to explain the massive differences. Correct me if my numbers are wrong here, but:
UK wine duty = £214 per hectolitre = £1.60 per 75cl bottle
+ VAT @ 15% = £1.84 = €2.06

Irish wine duty = €328.09 per hectolitre = €2.46 per 75cl bottle
+ VAT @ 21.5% = €2.74

So if tax was really what was at issue here, the difference between a bottle of wine in the Republic and one in an equivalent retailer in the UK would be 68 cents.

Now I don't buy a lot of wine, nor do I go shopping up the north much, but I'm fairly sure that people are talking about a price difference greater than 68c per bottle.

So, other than remove this 68c difference, what do you think an excise and VAT regime closer to the UK's would achieve?

guildofevil

BeerNut wrote: »

So, other than remove this 68c difference, what do you think an excise and VAT regime closer to the UK's would achieve?

It would mean that Irish wholesalers and retailers would not be able to blame duty and vat for their extortionate prices. Then, when they moan about people heading north, we can tell them it's their own bloody fault.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

No, I don't think he does. He's just having a go at supermarkets in the Republic, with no mention of how our VAT and duty rates are different from the UK's. No mention of the UK at all, in fact. The same difference in approach between supermarkets and human-run retailers exists in the UK, I'd have thought.


See, I don't think it is. Not enough to explain the massive differences. Correct me if my numbers are wrong here, but:
UK wine duty = £214 per hectolitre = £1.60 per 75cl bottle
+ VAT @ 15% = £1.84 = €2.06

Irish wine duty = €328.09 per hectolitre = €2.46 per 75cl bottle
+ VAT @ 21.5% = €2.74

So if tax was really what was at issue here, the difference between a bottle of wine in the Republic and one in an equivalent retailer in the UK would be 68 cents.

Now I don't buy a lot of wine, nor do I go shopping up the north much, but I'm fairly sure that people are talking about a price difference greater than 68c per bottle.

So, other than remove this 68c difference, what do you think an excise and VAT regime closer to the UK's would achieve?

Wouldn't the VAT go onto the combined value of the wine plus the duty?

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

Wouldn't the VAT go onto the combined value of the wine plus the duty?

It would. So instead of 68c, let's call it €2 of a difference. Would closing that €2 gap make a difference, do you think?

MattKane

BeerNut wrote: »

It would. So instead of 68c, let's call it €2 of a difference. Would closing that €2 gap make a difference, do you think?

It would certainly help. I totally agree that prices on alcohol are too high and it isn't the only overpriced sector in Ireland. It kills me as well when I have to pay 5 euro for a pint in Cork!

We're in a high cost economy. Labour and general overheads are higher. Unfortunately I can't speak for other retailers, but I know our margins and online/retail business model is based on those of UK merchants, as well as our own mix of good old Irish innovation and little of the USA's service service service philosophy.

Some fair points lads, I've loved reading them. Keep up the good work on your blog, BeerNut. I'm a bit of a beer nut myself, so I like to pop in now and again.

Now, back to Twitter and a pint of bitter me thinks