Is this budget just peeing against the wind?

peasant

according to RTE news

Mr Lenihan is to announce the details of the Budget, which is expected to impose extra taxes and spending cuts worth around €3.5bn.

3.5 bn?

With all that talk about pain and urgency 3.5 bn is all they can muster the gumption for?

May as well leave it then. Or will we have another budget in 2 months?

gurramok

Yep, you have it right there.

A 'structural deficit' of 16bn hence tax base has to change in a number of budgets to hold off a sharp instant shock of one budget.

But all these tax rises would be useless without public expenditure cutbacks, have they got the balls to do it?

SkepticOne

peasant wrote: »

according to RTE news


3.5 bn?

With all that talk about pain and urgency 3.5 bn is all they can muster the gumption for?

May as well leave it then. Or will we have another budget in 2 months?

3.5 billion is the cuts. A lot more money is likely to be raised in extra taxation.

heyjude

peasant wrote: »

according to RTE news


3.5 bn?

With all that talk about pain and urgency 3.5 bn is all they can muster the gumption for?

May as well leave it then. Or will we have another budget in 2 months?

I think they are already several stages into that well worn tactic of preparing the public for an absolutely disastrous budget(4.5-6 bn in cutbacks and tax increases) and then on budget day they only deliver 3 - 3.5bn and then everyone is supposed to say, well that wasn't as bad as we expected, the government did a good job. :rolleyes:

The same strategy is used continuously around the world, you prepare people for the worst possible scenario and then when you just deliver bad news, it seems much better.

The problem in our case though, is that we probably could do with a sizeable dose of the budget that has been advertised/expected, as we know that sizeable cutbacks and tax increases are needed and politically there will never be a perfect time for them, so we might as well start now. I agree, that if the budget only aims at 3.5bn in tax increases and cutbacks, then we'll have another budget by September. However, I don't think this government has the guts to take on public service reform, so all the cutbacks will be in reducing health services and cutting social welfare, while their main focus will be on increasing taxes. How many bites at the cherry does this government need ? Budget....mini-budget....budget....mini-budget......

It may be that after the Celtic Tiger years, we have a government that just doesn't know how to take hard decisions, because during the Celtic Tiger years they had so much cash to spend that they never really had to make a really tough decision, as they could afford to keep everyone happy. Now they have a choice A or B not A and B.

gurramok

http://www.rte.ie/money/budget2009/stories/2009/0407/budget2.html

He also said the Government had to cut spending and raise revenue by increasing the tax base, but that they 'couldn't really do that this year', so it would have to be done next year.

Real pain will not arrive till next year while the country falls apart, wonderful.

thebman

I think there are a number of reasons for not doing everything at once.

One is the riots in the streets that could happen.

Another is the heart attack it could give the economy.

I agree though that the reason we won't get public sector reform is because they don't have what it takes to do it. They can't take losing that many votes and that is the real problem. They are still thinking about the next election and how they are going to get elected with the economy in the crapper.

The public need to send the clear message that they aren't getting in next time in the hope that they will actually act in the nations interest and not their own.

Gu3rr1lla

It's a waste of time. Nothing can change unless we restore the power of issueing money back to the people. From day one the ECB has loaned money with interest attached making it mathematically impossible to pay it back. There's always more debt than money in circulation. Worse still no matarials or anything in value was transferred in creation of money it's all on computer screens and what amazes me is people die of starvation in countries because they dont have enough digits on a computer screen. Less than 3% of money exists in physical form and even then paper is worthless. Eventually the ink on it will be worth more. It's like the exponential factor, curving upwards untill we reach the vertical straight line - then we will need wheelbarrows of coins to buy a loaf of bread.

When you go to a bank to take out a mortgage they just put digits on a screen, you take their worthless cash and buy your house or car or whatever and if you cant afford to pay back your worthless cash they take something of real value off you like your house or car. What amazes me is this and other governments going on like they're the saviour by bailing out and bringing in new regulations on these petty middle banks without touching the central bank. How about nationalising the central bank?

This is my country and im sick and tired of political parties and ****ing muppets in control of this government. Doesnt matter if it was the opposition in power it would be the same ****.

All debt should be wiped afterall it didnt exist in the first place. Doesnt matter whether we are in a capitilist system or communist system we were and always will be working for the banks unless we change the way we look at money. And i dont mean "change" as in that fake political promise giving by their elite - their excuse to just centralise money creation into the hands of the few even more aka "new world order".

Gu3rr1lla

But dont worry because the government loves you :rolleyes:

The economy will be fine once the elite bring in the North American Union, merging America, Mexico and Canada, with its own currency called the Amero. And introduction of more taxes such as the carbon tax. Really what their aim is is to centralise the power of the world even more into their control, they want a one world government. What they're doing now is called Problem-Reaction-Solution. THey create the problem, then there's a reaction from the public and then they bring in the solution which was their solution in the first place. For example Americans wouldnt have agreed to let their troops go into the middle east before 9/11 but after the administration pointed the finger and immediately the americans jumped even though iraq had nothing to do with 911.

After the recession we'll be able to buy all the **** we want again except we will be paying more taxes than before. And when they feel the need to centralise the globe more they'll blow out the economy.

I've been studying this for the past 7 years and seen it unfold in front of my eyes. Lots of other people have aswell but they're always brushed aside as conspiracy theorists.

THose who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it

peace

jimmmy

Gu3rr1lla wrote: »

All debt should be wiped afterall it didnt exist in the first place.

If you had lent someone money you would not agree.

If the people who lend us money now ....the € 25,000,000,000.00 per year we currently borrow just to keep going... thought "all debt should be wiped afterall it didnt exist in the first place" then they would not lend us money.....and then what?

If you have indeed been "studying this for the past 7 years " , and have come up with only ideas like yours, then pray tell nobody from your school or college ever gets a job in a relevant area , if thats all you have learnt..

Capt'n Midnight

thebman wrote: »

I think there are a number of reasons for not doing everything at once.

One is the riots in the streets that could happen.

Another is the heart attack it could give the economy.

I agree though that the reason we won't get public sector reform is because they don't have what it takes to do it. They can't take losing that many votes and that is the real problem. They are still thinking about the next election and how they are going to get elected with the economy in the crapper.

The public need to send the clear message that they aren't getting in next time in the hope that they will actually act in the nations interest and not their own.

They have already missed one chance, people would have accepted a tougher budget last time, now it's catchup time.
If they fudge this then it will be very damaging to get a tougher one in later.

It would be good if they could say TRUTHFULLY, this is the worst it's going to get from here on the only way is up. The the rest of the country could plan instead of worrying. The worst thing they could do is require a worse one later on unless it is totally caused by external circumstances.

We don't need to balance the books this year just get on a steady predictable path to clearing them in the next few years.

In the past CGT was 40%,
Back in the 80's there was a very middle narrow 48% band and 58% for the rest.

It would be nice if they had a far sighted approach. Green power / insulation would be good , we were the world leaders in turf back in the 1930's

Gu3rr1lla

jimmmy wrote: »

If you had lent someone money you would not agree.

If the people who lend us money now ....the € 25,000,000,000.00 per year we currently borrow just to keep going... thought "all debt should be wiped afterall it didnt exist in the first place" then they would not lend us money.....and then what?

If you have indeed been "studying this for the past 7 years " , and have come up with only ideas like yours, then pray tell nobody from your school or college ever gets a job in a relevant area , if thats all you have learnt..

What people? The unelected people in the ECB? The point is we shouldnt have to borrow money. Our government (if it was decent) could print our own without the debt/interest attached.

And when you say 25,000,000,000.00, it's still just as worthful as the piece of paper it's written on. And it's not even written on a piece of paper! It's is put into a computer screen... *POOF* out of nothing.

Yes i have been studying what has been happening to our world for the past 7 years. I have warned people of what is coming. We were already in a recession 3 years ago. We havent even seen half of it yet.

I think its pertinent to quote Thomas Jefferson here, same thing they fought against:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

peace

peasant

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It would be good if they could say TRUTHFULLY, this is the worst it's going to get from here on the only way is up. The the rest of the country could plan instead of worrying.

Yepp, that's it.

Another half-arsed, fudged, clueless attempt at "leadership" simply won't do ...we need the real version.

Villain

3.5bn is a joke, we need to cut social welfare and public sectore pay to save about 8bn but that would collapse the Government and these FF boys like the power too much.

A national Government or even all party support for a serious budget is needed but the main Political parties won't allow that.

So instead we'll half a half arsed budget that won't really attack the issue and the Country will be in a much worse state come September and IMF will be getting closer and closer.

3.5bn = joke imo

InReality

jimmmy wrote: »

If you had lent someone money you would not agree.

If the people who lend us money now ....the € 25,000,000,000.00 per year we currently borrow just to keep going... thought "all debt should be wiped afterall it didnt exist in the first place" then they would not lend us money.....and then what?

If you have indeed been "studying this for the past 7 years " , and have come up with only ideas like yours, then pray tell nobody from your school or college ever gets a job in a relevant area , if thats all you have learnt..

Its not all that crazy. They did it with some third world debt.