Karate Sparring Problem

whitelightrider

Hi folks,

I have a problem and Im looking for some help. Im doing Karate and going for my black belt in about 2 months. Training wise Im doing ok, some things to tidy up stance wise etc.
My main problem is my sparring. I tend to back away too much from my opponent meaning Im getting caught alot. Even when moving into an attack I seem to be more worried about getting hit than actually hitting my opponent. The guys Im sparring in training goes in hard - Im black and blue after training, but that doesnt bother me.

Is there anything I can do to counteract this? Anything I can work on?

Barname

yes,

try knitting

whitelightrider

Thanks for the sound advice Barname.

Barname

your response provides an inkling to part of the problem....

be more aggressive, but remain in control

Flip mode, thats what you need.

Get in your opponents face.

If you are not going forward..........then....

Own the space.

whitelightrider

Barname wrote: »

your response provides an inkling to part of the problem....

be more aggressive, but remain in control

Flip mode, thats what you need.

Get in your opponents face.

If you are not going forward..........then....

Own the space.

I see your point now! I know I need to get into the mind set of going out there and owning the space, taking the point and actually winning the fight. But how do I train my mind and body to stop going into defensive mode and thinking "oh crap Im gona get hit"? I dont mind getting hit. Christ you should see my arms and ribs today But I want to go out there and win the bloody fights, not be a punch bag for my partner.

mark.leonard

Hi Rider,

my recommendation is to get a head guard and put yourself and your partner in big gloves. Then spar as many rounds as you cardio allows, then do two more. Repeat that daily for a couple weeks and take off the head guard but stick with the big gloves. Another couple of weeks and switch back to Karate mitts, by then you won't be in the least bit worried about incoming strikes and your flinching and running away will have dissipated.

Everyone initially worries about being hit, that isn't just natural its sensible! allow yourself time to get used to the whole process. It sounds like you have allowed yourself to take the path of least resistance in sparring up to now. Change that and with enough practice it won't matter in the long run

Charlie3dan

Are you sparring a few different people in training or is it mainly the same person?
Do you find everyone is going in harder than you or is it one person in particular?

whitelightrider

mark.leonard wrote: »

Hi Rider,

my recommendation is to get a head guard and put yourself and your partner in big gloves. Then spar as many rounds as you cardio allows, then do two more. Repeat that daily for a couple weeks and take off the head guard but stick with the big gloves. Another couple of weeks and switch back to Karate mitts, by then you won't be in the least bit worried about incoming strikes and your flinching and running away will have dissipated.

Everyone initially worries about being hit, that isn't just natural its sensible! allow yourself time to get used to the whole process. It sounds like you have allowed yourself to take the path of least resistance in sparring up to now. Change that and with enough practice it won't matter in the long run

Hey Mark,
Thanks for that. Ive always been used to "touch" training. Tip, then out. But when you go up against someone who goes in that little bit harder it throws you. Well it throws me anyway!!
Im gona keep getting stuck in there each night and see if I can train my mind and body to stop flinching. I need to develop a few more combos also and use them. When Im fighting my brain thinks too much instead of just reacting when I see an opening and counter attacking when my opponent comes in.

whitelightrider

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Are you sparring a few different people in training or is it mainly the same person?
Do you find everyone is going in harder than you or is it one person in particular?

Hi Charlie. Its one particular guy thats going in harder. But thats only when we're sparring for points, as in competition sparring.
I seem to do the same when sparring the instructors though also. I tend to flinch instead of reacting. I have pushed myself to moving in when I see a kick coming so that I smother it and also score when the reverse punch.

Charlie3dan

Well if it's one guy then it makes sense to fight defensively but it does sound like you are being a bit cautious in general.

Here's a drill that might help (you will probably have done this before):
From normal sparring distance with a partner, both sides attack gyakuzuki. One side goes jodan and the other chudan. You need a partner that can control but still one that going to put you under pressure. One side initiates the attack and the other must react. Both sides are trying to land the punch first. (changing sides as you wish). Try and keep it intense.

If you aren't going in strong enough you'll get beaten to the punch. This will also get you used to holding your ground, you can't move back on this one.

Apart from that, try and spar with a few different people as well as the guy that goes in hard. Build up your confidence, get literally just 3/4 combinations or attacks that you are confident using and build from there.

Remember, you aren't looking for points when sparring for grading, you want to show you can attack defend, timing, distance, reaction etc etc. Train for continuous sparring where you don't break off each time a point is scored you just keep going.

I hope that's some help.

whitelightrider

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Well if it's one guy then it makes sense to fight defensively but it does sound like you are being a bit cautious in general.

Here's a drill that might help (you will probably have done this before):
From normal sparring distance with a partner, both sides attack gyakuzuki. One side goes jodan and the other chudan. You need a partner that can control but still one that going to put you under pressure. One side initiates the attack and the other must react. Both sides are trying to land the punch first. (changing sides as you wish). Try and keep it intense.

If you aren't going in strong enough you'll get beaten to the punch. This will also get you used to holding your ground, you can't move back on this one.

Apart from that, try and spar with a few different people as well as the guy that goes in hard. Build up your confidence, get literally just 3/4 combinations or attacks that you are confident using and build from there.

Remember, you aren't looking for points when sparring for grading, you want to show you can attack defend, timing, distance, reaction etc etc. Train for continuous sparring where you don't break off each time a point is scored you just keep going.

I hope that's some help.

Charlie, we've worked on that before, but Im going to work on it more. I seem to be pretty good at it during the training session. But during the sparring I just seem to freeze. Definitely something to keep working on.

What combos would you recommend working on for sparring?

Charlie3dan

Well I'd say go back to your bread and butter; kizamizuki - gyakuzuki. And the footwork is hugely important. Get the footwork right and cover distance.
Then do the reverse of that, again with the footwork.
Add mawashi to either of those.
Then gyakuzki- gyakuzkui, start moving forward as then first punch is thrown.

Practice them by your self first moving up and down the floor. Focus on good form and speed. Then get a partner to hold some pads for you and move as you would when sparring. You'll notice they probably start moving back slightly if they see you attack so you have to work harder to drive in the technique.

whitelightrider

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Well I'd say go back to your bread and butter; kizamizuki - gyakuzuki. And the footwork is hugely important. Get the footwork right and cover distance.
Then do the reverse of that, again with the footwork.
Add mawashi to either of those.
Then gyakuzki- gyakuzkui, start moving forward as then first punch is thrown.

Practice them by your self first moving up and down the floor. Focus on good form and speed. Then get a partner to hold some pads for you and move as you would when sparring. You'll notice they probably start moving back slightly if they see you attack so you have to work harder to drive in the technique.

Nice. I think thats one of my downfalls. When I started off first we concentrated so much on control and control that I now end up pulling punches and kicks before they even hit the target. I need to work on letting them go, but still controlling anything to the head.
My footwork is terrible. I tend to end up flat footed near the end of the fight which is terrible. I need to work on more footwork drills.
Again, any advice you can offer would be great Charlie. And thanks for all the advice above.

Charlie3dan

No problem hope it's helpful.
On the footwork thing don't be afraid to forget about kicks and punches and just work on the footwork by itself. Move around as you would when sparring and then practice footwork without throwing techniques. Attacking, retreating, breaking to the side every so often. Keep the sparring style movement going throughout.

It will strengthen the muscles you need for good footwork (you really feel it in calves and ankles if you keep going for a while) and it should help you avoid being flat footed in real sparring.

It's hard to explain things fully here but I hope some of this is helpful.
Let me know if you'd like me to explain anything a bit better.

pgibbo

whitelightrider wrote: »

My footwork is terrible. I tend to end up flat footed near the end of the fight which is terrible. I need to work on more footwork drills.

Some skipping may help you. It's a good way of getting used to being up on the balls of your toes.

I find it's important not to change too many things too quickly. This can lead to you getting muddled and potentially losing confidence too.

Some good pointers from Charlie.

If you stand your ground and react with a kizami tsuki a few times, your opponent may think twice about charging in. Some people know that an opponent will naturally retreat and try to take advantage by coming in hard and fast. If you stand your ground a few times, that may change. I have seen that approach coupled with some of the advice given here work in the past.

Ger Healy

What you are really taking about here is confidence. The confidence to stand in front of and opponent and exchange.

This confidence can be achieved in two ways
The first way (School of hard knocks)
1 Get on the mat and spar every opportunity you get and eventually after many bumps burses and pain you over come your fears.

The second way (Intelligent approach)
2 Gradually under controlled environment you increase the intensity of the sparring until you achieve a live sparring level.
a.An example of how this can be done is (Tennis Sparring) where only set technique are allowed in the sparring round in essence handicapping each other and then increasing the speed and contact level this is applied. When you feel comfortable at the lower level you can add more technique combination and increase the intensity.

What I would suggest is that you work on your defence.
You should first look at things like

•Balance : footwork
•Defence: hand position, body position
•TES: When being offensive in your sparring what your body structure is like
•Cardio: Fitness level will determine if the above function correctly

Hope that can help you

Tim_Murphy

Excellent advice by Ger.

Now that I think of it, I don't think I ever give anybody any standup coaching or advice that I didn't learn from Ger.

whitelightrider

Thanks very much guys. Serious amount of good advice there. I need to work on balance and footwork for my sparring. Im going to try skipping in the evenings at home and get used to keeping on the balls of my feet.
Im also going to work on moving in circles instead of back and forth. Getting out of the way of an attacking opponent can leave them open to some nice techniques.

On the fitness side are there any particular things I should be doing to boost fitness?

Charlie3dan

Well if you posted that question in the fitness forum the answer would be "it depends"

But the short simple answer, go running, regularly.

Khannie

whitelightrider wrote: »

Im black and blue after training, but that doesnt bother me.

It bloody well should!

I'm not black and blue after sparring. Sparring is for learning, not getting hurt. I step in the ring and I expect to get hurt, sure, but if I get hurt sparring it's because I hit too hard, or got hit too hard.

Marks advice on using some protective gear for a while is sound. If there's one thing I've learned in Thai it's not to be afraid of getting hit.

Good luck!

challengemaster

Gonna have to agree with Khannie here - If anything I've learned from doing TKD it's not to be afraid of getting hit. Was something that was holding me back when I was doing Karate myself, and tbh, I'm happy that I quit.

TKD - We spar hard, but it's to benefit eachother at the end of the day. Now I don't mind taking a few hard punches to the face in a spar, or even a few hard kicks. (To tell the truth, I actually enjoy it ) You're just going to have to get used to being hit. Once you are, you'll be more confident in spars, and have a lot more control because of it.

getz

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi folks,

I have a problem and Im looking for some help. Im doing Karate and going for my black belt in about 2 months. Training wise Im doing ok, some things to tidy up stance wise etc.
My main problem is my sparring. I tend to back away too much from my opponent meaning Im getting caught alot. Even when moving into an attack I seem to be more worried about getting hit than actually hitting my opponent. The guys Im sparring in training goes in hard - Im black and blue after training, but that doesnt bother me.

Is there anything I can do to counteract this? Anything I can work on?

what style ?i know over the years in shotokan explosive power always worked against many of my opponents-also a good leg sweep will make them think twice before attacking. one tip for the future when you watch the top people in international competition take a note of their tricks ,

TKD SC

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi folks,

I tend to back away too much from my opponent meaning Im getting caught alot. Even when moving into an attack I seem to be more worried about getting hit than actually hitting my opponent.

Hello,

All the advise has been very good so far, so do try to take it on board. You still have two months before your grading, so don't think you need to actually make all the changes within a few days. Don't panic! There is still a good few weeks to go. Hopefully if you put the advise into action, you will notice the improvement every week.

My main point is really what has been said already, but it does seem to be a mind thing. You shouldn't be more worried about getting hit than hitting. Obviously no one likes getting "caught alot" but the truth is you will always get caught. The goal being to reduce the number of times you get caught and increase the number of times you hit your opponent. But you will always get some hits, so you really have to accept this in your head, come to terms with that fact and don't let it bother you or affect your confidence.

Work on the techniques & advise on this thread, but you need to accept in your mind that you will get hit, and don't let it worry you. When you're not worried in your sparring, you'll probably free up a lot more and can begin to then focus on attack moreso. Get your mind more positive - you're the winner, you're going to score the hits, thoughts and body moving forward on the attack, nicely psyched up and alert. All of this should come easier once you stop "worry about getting hit". I'm sure there must be some karate kid quote re strong mind, but can't think of any!

Hope that helps and good luck in your training.

Re fitness, again - 2 months to go so don't go out and kill yourself in one go. Obvious enough, but more sparring will get the fitness up - if there are any extra classes you can get to for some more spars. Obviously running, sprinting, skipping etc are all good, maybe if you got some early morning runs in or something...

All the best

Simon

Charlie3dan

Whitelightrider...How are you getting on with the training?

cletus

yoiu've had lots of good advice here with regards to the exchanges and how to become more confident in standing and tradsing (i can personally attest to Ger's advice), but one thing that I noticed in your opening post was that you back away and seem to get caught.

Have somebody watch you and see if you are backing away in straight lines. If so its much easier for your opponent to hit you, and you need to to circle away rather than just back up.

whitelightrider

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Whitelightrider...How are you getting on with the training?

Hey Charlie, apologies for not posting here. Been busy posting about our shower problem in the house!!

Anyway, training has been going good. We havent done any sparring since as we've been concentrating on basics for the last few weeks. Although we're doing some sparring tomorrow night. Im more tuned in when it comes to the training now and the senseis have noticed that and commented on it. Lets see how it works tomorrow night when Im tired and still want to move forward instead of pushing back!!

Dboy85

Do some thaiboxin or boxin! Get used to getting hit just hit back harder

whitelightrider

Well the sparring is getting better folks. I find that Im not backing away from opponents as much anymore. Im reacting to their movements. Also Im starting to move sideways, instead of in a straight line back.

I want to work on a few combinations for freestyle now as I feel Im limited in this area. Are there any combos that people can recommend?

Capital P

You're training partners sound like arseholes, they should ease up a bit on you until you're less gun shy.

whitelightrider

Capital P wrote: »

You're training partners sound like arseholes, they should ease up a bit on you until you're less gun shy.

My training partners are some of the best instructors Ive met. Its not their fault that I back away instead of reacting. They are trying to bring me along and make me fast, strong and reactive. Its worked. I dont back away anymore. I react. All the advice people have given me here has helped me, but would have been useless without my instructors pushing me a bit during each session.

You know what I really dont appreciate that comment. If you dont have anything constructive to say then please keep quiet. You know nothing about my training partners.

TKD SC

whitelightrider wrote: »

I want to work on a few combinations for freestyle now as I feel Im limited in this area. Are there any combos that people can recommend?

Jab, cross, axe kick off back leg

Jab, cross, turning kick (roundhouse) off back leg

Axe kick off front leg, pick up and straight into 45 degree turning kick to ribs / stomach, follow up with punches

Lots more but 3 straight fwd ones there that can be relatively effective to try there anyway and see how they work for you. Do them moving fwd fast and agressive and hopefully you'll score some nice hits...

Ask your coach for a couple of combos also to work on and I'm sure he'll oblige?...

Cheers

Simon

whitelightrider

TKD SC wrote: »

Jab, cross, axe kick off back leg

Jab, cross, turning kick (roundhouse) off back leg

Axe kick off front leg, pick up and straight into 45 degree turning kick to ribs / stomach, follow up with punches

Lots more but 3 straight fwd ones there that can be relatively effective to try there anyway and see how they work for you. Do them moving fwd fast and agressive and hopefully you'll score some nice hits...

Ask your coach for a couple of combos also to work on and I'm sure he'll oblige?...

Cheers

Simon

Thats perfect. Cheers mate. Just needed a few to work on to spice things up. He'd show me a few combos for sure. But Im up against him Wednesday of next week so itd be nice to throw in one he's not expecting!!

chimmychanga

TKD SC wrote: »

Jab, cross, axe kick off back leg

Jab, cross, turning kick (roundhouse) off back leg

Axe kick off front leg, pick up and straight into 45 degree turning kick to ribs / stomach, follow up with punches

Lots more but 3 straight fwd ones there that can be relatively effective to try there anyway and see how they work for you. Do them moving fwd fast and agressive and hopefully you'll score some nice hits...

Ask your coach for a couple of combos also to work on and I'm sure he'll oblige?...

Cheers

Simon

LOL, give me a break will ya, u've never even seen this guy and your telling him to do axe kicks and other silly combos!!!! What the OP needs to do is find a basic technique that works for him (ashi/gyaku, sidestep then karatsuki/gyaku etc) and practice it against a static opponent (then placid opponent) until distance and timing is perfect. Confidence will improve very quickly then its time to use these techniques in a sparring session. If you cant perfect the techniques when your opponent isn't countering or attacking, u'l never master kumite. Its all about confidence and finding techniques that suit you. Best of luck by the way.:)

whitelightrider

chimmychanga wrote: »

LOL, give me a break will ya, u've never even seen this guy and your telling him to do axe kicks and other silly combos!!!! What the OP needs to do is find a basic technique that works for him (ashi/gyaku, sidestep then karatsuki/gyaku etc) and practice it against a static opponent (then placid opponent) until distance and timing is perfect. Confidence will improve very quickly then its time to use these techniques in a sparring session. If you cant perfect the techniques when your opponent isn't countering or attacking, u'l never master kumite. Its all about confidence and finding techniques that suit you. Best of luck by the way.:)

hey there chimmychanga. Thanks for that. Ill take all advice on combos that could be used in sparring, and actual kumite.
Can you recommend and few basic combos? Ive practiced ones like:
kizami, gyaku
gyaku, mawashi
mawashi, kizami, gyaku
kizami, ushiro geri

chimmychanga

The main thing to concentrate on is closing the distance between u and ur opponent so I find it more effective to throw a lead or dummy technique to get closer and continue with the attack. A good example of this is a nice sweep attack that is very succesful when practiced (Its hard to explain without demonstrating but bear with me!) Make sure u are toe to toe with ur opponent (ur right foot adjacent to his left or viceversa). Throw a jodan gyaku from ur left and as a dummy and shift ur right foot closer to his leading foot at the same time (try position it behind his foot). His reaction will be to immediately lean his head back avoiding the gyaku thus taking his weight off his front leg. Immediately sweep his leg and he'll hit the deck quickr then you can say IPPON! Up to you what you want to hit him with after that.:) Again, practice this on a static opponent and really lunge in with the dummy gyaku, use ur hips to whip the ashi in order to generate more power into the technique. Have fun

Charlie3dan

Hey whitelightrider, glad to hear training is going well for you.
Grading must be getting close?

Good advice from chimmychanga.
I would stick with the combos you have and just use different variations of them, no need to over complicate things. Pay particular attention to distance when you are practicing the techniques with a partner and sparring. Also try out different timings for techniques to see what works best.

Use decoys/ dummies/ leads as chimmy said these will help you land the techniques.

whitelightrider

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Hey whitelightrider, glad to hear training is going well for you.
Grading must be getting close?

Good advice from chimmychanga.
I would stick with the combos you have and just use different variations of them, no need to over complicate things. Pay particular attention to distance when you are practicing the techniques with a partner and sparring. Also try out different timings for techniques to see what works best.

Use decoys/ dummies/ leads as chimmy said these will help you land the techniques.

Hi Charlie. Ive asked my sensei to put off my grading for a while. Im not fit enough yet, and Id like to be faster and stronger on my techniques before going for it.
My basics are good - but I want them great.
Sparring isnt great. Im only now getting used to moving forward into an attach instead of running away.

Theres alot of work to be done before Ill feel comfortable going onto the grading floor for my shodan.

Ill keep practising those techniques and keeping things crisp. Distance does let me down. I see an opening but cant cover the distance fast enough. Really need to work on that.

TKD SC

chimmychanga wrote: »

LOL, give me a break will ya, u've never even seen this guy and your telling him to do axe kicks and other silly combos!!!! What the OP needs to do is find a basic technique that works for him (ashi/gyaku, sidestep then karatsuki/gyaku etc) and practice it against a static opponent (then placid opponent) until distance and timing is perfect. Confidence will improve very quickly then its time to use these techniques in a sparring session. If you cant perfect the techniques when your opponent isn't countering or attacking, u'l never master kumite. Its all about confidence and finding techniques that suit you. Best of luck by the way.:)

I gave 3 techniques that popped into my head at 9am and tried to help him out. He did want combos recommended and that's what I did. Not sure why the LOL. I was essentially recommening 3 versions of a jab, cross and kick - not too silly, and he is going for shodan, not yellow belt! They're pretty simple techniques and may work great for him, or may not. Who knows. But sure, can't he give them a go and see?

Anyway, v hard to improve someone's sparring through internet advise - it really has to be drilled down the club etc. But he seems to have found the advise to date here helpful anyway, so hopefully that's a good thing...

whitelightrider

TKD SC wrote: »

I gave 3 techniques that popped into my head at 9am and tried to help him out. He did want combos recommended and that's what I did. Not sure why the LOL. I was essentially recommening 3 versions of a jab, cross and kick - not too silly, and he is going for shodan, not yellow belt! They're pretty simple techniques and may work great for him, or may not. Who knows. But sure, can't he give them a go and see?

Anyway, v hard to improve someone's sparring through internet advise - it really has to be drilled down the club etc. But he seems to have found the advise to date here helpful anyway, so hopefully that's a good thing...

Hey TKD. Thanks very much for the advice. Its much appreciated and those techniques will be tested come training the next night.
Thats where internet advice helps. You can recommend the technique. Then at the club while sparring I can try it out and get comfortable with it. Thats the beauty of Boards. So many people with different skill sets all willing to share some advise with strangers. Its helped me in the past, helps me in my preset training, and no doubt will continue to help me in the future.

Zen65

Whitelightrider who are you doing your shodan grading with? Do you know what they want to see from your kumite ? It's rarely about winning the fight, more about showing good understanding of how to fight.

For years I had a similar problem to you, I found two things to focus on to help me:

(1) When sparring, don't think about how to block or avoid being hit. Instead think about how to intercept the attacker as they attack (Sen-no-Sen). Don't think about moving away from the attack, think about finding a better position to counter-attack from. For example when opponent attacks kizami-tsuki jodan a good place for you to be is 45 degrees to the side with a counter-attack kizami-tsuki jodan catching them as they land. Don't block, just move directly to attack.

(2) Don't be impatient and start attacking just to show you can. That's a losing strategy and you will get hit and end up retreating. Wait for the opportunity, or better yet create it yourself. If you like kicking (say chudan mawashi) then set up your kicking attack with a quick attack to the head first to distract (oi-komi jodan or kizami-tsuki jodan with a slide of the foot).

Best of luck with the grading.

Zen65

FruitLover

whitelightrider wrote: »

I see an opening but cant cover the distance fast enough. Really need to work on that.

Ever do tube training? Wrap a long elastic tube (you can get this in some fitness shops, or even just tie a load of bicycle inner-tubes together) around your waist and anchor the other end on something (or another person). Then practice firing yourself forward off the back leg ('yori-ashi'), ideally throwing a technique as you do it. I find this good for strengthening and speeding up the various muscles used for moving quickly forward. If you watch the top Japanese guys, they cover 10 feet in a blink of an eye with two quick yori-ashi lunges.

You described a combo with a leading kick earlier. I would never lead with a kick, bar maybe a quick front leg front or round kick to catch someone coming in. No matter how fast you can kick, it'll always be easier to see coming than a punch (and get bloody axe kicks right out of your mind until you get very very good at them). I'd also recommend practicing three-technique combos rather than just two, and ideally practice stringing several combos together to get used to a natural flow.

Something I like for improving footwork generally is to spar multiple partners (careful now!). Have them alternate attacks from different directions to force you to move around, changing direction frequently.

Zen65

I agree, Fruitlover, leading with a kick is a poor strategy unless you are very, very quick. For most of us leading with a kick means you will be blocked and may find it hard to follow through with a hand attack at speed.

Leading with ushiro-geri is probably the worst strategy of all.

Zen65

FruitLover

Zen65 wrote: »

Leading with ushiro-geri is probably the worst strategy of all.

Actually, I've seen that work a few times - not because the recipient didn't see it coming, but because he panicked and didn't get out of the way!

Zen65

Yes, I've seen that too. Heck in my younger days I was that poor fella who stood there frozen and got caught by the attack. Maybe we've met?

But I've seen people cross the roads without looking and not get hit.... doesn't make it a good strategy!



Zen65