UPS - Very annoyed re: VAT

Hobbes · 06-04-2009 1:06pm #1

Had a UPS delivery guy deliver a package and refused to hand over because we had to pay VAT on it.

I explained it was books but he said the laws had changed and we would have to pay it before we got the package.

So paid the money, when I opened it the package only has books. I checked at revenue site and books are marked as not to pay VAT.

So I rang UPS who tell me because it says "Sheet Music" on the package that we do in fact have to pay VAT. She gives me a phone number for customs which doesn't work.

Now I check online again and sheet music even if correct meant I would pay 13.5% and not 21.5%

I ring again. This time I am half way through explaining and the guy says "No you should pay 0% VAT for sheet music" (even though I explained the correct amount). He goes off and comes back and says that sheet music is 13.5% now. I ask about refund of the difference. He says that they paid customs and that I have to take it up with them. I explain I didn't pay customs so why should I have to sort out their mistake.

He goes off again and now comes back and tells me I have to pay 21.5%. I point out that I have confirmed it is 13.5% and he says I am wrong and to phone customs.

At that point he gives me a different phone number for customs which also doesn't work.

This is ridiculous.

Hobbes · 06-04-2009 1:19pm

Actually managed to get in contact with a UPS person a lot less hostile, which makes a bit more sense.

- Explained that you basically have to pay 13.50 euros on the package regardless.
- Bought over the internet you pay 21.5%
- She actually gave me the correct number for Revenue to ring. Clarified.

Still annoyed with the earlier people in UPS though.

*edit appears she is wrong as well. refers to downloading from internet.

Nody · 06-04-2009 1:23pm

Buying something on the Internet is the same as if you phoned the company or sent them a regular paper mail; i.e. no difference compared to placing an order online and getting physical goods.

UPC is simply passing you around because they don't want to bother to reclaim the VAT from Revenu and refund you the fee they most likely charged you. Have a look on the invoice/receipt and if you have neither ask for it from UPC.

Your best bet will be to send a complaint in writing to UPC asking for a full refund outlining their mistake. If no response send it again as registered mail; trying to get it refunded over phone will only waste your time and most likely be an excercise of frustration.

Hobbes · 06-04-2009 1:37pm

The number she gave me to Revenue was wrong again, but this time I got a person on the phone who gave me the right number.

Nice guy at revenue ( very calming). He said as they were books 0% even if it was sheet music in the books. I pointed out that it only said "sheet music" on the invoice and he said that it would be 13.5% and he wasn't even sure how they got 21.5% at all.

jor el · 06-04-2009 2:33pm

You should get the revenue guy to put that in writing, and then get back to UPS with that information (if they'll listen).

Hobbes · 06-04-2009 2:35pm

jor el wrote: »

You should get the revenue guy to put that in writing, and then get back to UPS with that information (if they'll listen).

It is already in writing at.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/printing-and-printed-matter.html

When I discussed it with UPS he said I was lying. Will be writing formal complaint to them.

Max Power1 · 06-04-2009 3:04pm

Nody wrote: »

.... Have a look on the invoice/receipt and if you have neither ask for it from UPC.

Your best bet will be to send a complaintin writing to UPC asking for a full refund outlining their mistake. .

I dont think the cable company has anything to do with the deliveries!!

:P:P

MysticalSoul · 06-04-2009 10:13pm

Ask them for a receipt showing that they have in fact paid the fees you paid to Revenue.

Hobbes · 07-04-2009 11:52am

I got an email to day to explain what happened which I did (in about 2-3 pages, civil). I then got a mail back saying it would be looked into by a senior manager.

Just got a mail from a senior guy in UPS who has apoligised, and reimbursed me the difference of the 13.5%->21.5% and the admin fee as a gesture of goodwill.

So I am happy with the customer support at least in this regards. Although I hope I don't have to go through this again.

jor el · 07-04-2009 1:09pm

Hobbes wrote: »

Just got a mail from a senior guy in UPS who has apoligised, and reimbursed me the difference of the 13.5%->21.5% and the admin fee as a gesture of goodwill.

Should you not have gotten all the VAT back, though? That link you gave earlier states that the 13.5% is on "Maps, hydrographic and similar charts, and sheet music not in book or booklet form." and you said it was books only (of which contained musical scores) which have no VAT. At the very most, the VAT would be due on the music books only, and not on anything that contained no musical scores.

Hobbes · 07-04-2009 1:20pm

jor el wrote: »

Should you not have gotten all the VAT back, though? That link you gave earlier states that the 13.5% is on "Maps, hydrographic and similar charts, and sheet music not in book or booklet form."

Yes it is books in the box but the company that sent them put "Sheet Music" on the description.

When I spoke to the guy in the Revenue commissioners he was very sound guy (relaxed). He said that if it was books then we could reclaim the 13.5% back but would have to go some place in town to do it.

So from an administrative point of view sheet music would be correct in relation to UPS.

At the very most, the VAT would be due on the music books only, and not on anything that contained no musical scores.

I think you mean that the other way around. Music stationary (even in books) is taxable as stationary. Music books (ones with scores in them) are not.

rubadub · 07-04-2009 1:24pm

Hobbes wrote: »

Yes it is books in the box but the company that sent them put "Sheet Music" on the description.

I wonder if it was the other way around would they have not charged you, when you really should have been paying.

Hobbes · 07-04-2009 2:39pm

rubadub wrote: »

I wonder if it was the other way around would they have not charged you, when you really should have been paying.

Legally from their point of view they shouldn't. Although you should.

RUDOLF289 · 07-04-2009 3:01pm

Hello Hobbes,

I am glad to see you got some satisfaction. There are however a number of things to consider for future reference ;

1) Make sure that the supplier issues correct documentation and a proper description of the merchandise (I am sure you would have figured that one out yourself .).....
2) Get the tracking number from the supplier and speak to the Customs section in the
respective courier company prior to arrival in Ireland. Discuss the correct customs
classification with them and confirm it in writing (e-mail). Ask them to tell you in advance what the amount of Duty and VAT will be. Iron out any issues before the shipment is entered to Customs.

Another point to consider is that unless you sign a declaration authorising the
courier company to act as your "direct representative" in relation to Customs matters, the courier company is acting on their own behalf and any errors, ommissions or mistakes are entirely their responsibility. That may sound logical, but it isn't as
straight forward.

Also, bear in mind that the people you are dealing with in the courier companies often lack formal training in customs clearance. In addition the sheer volume of work they are faced with can only be done by a "one size fits all" approach. Essentially they have little or no time to deal with exceptions. So you need to be ahead of the arrival of the shipment and give them very clear instructions.

Regards,
Rudolf289

UPS - Very annoyed re: VAT

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