Calls For Independent Agency For Transportation Of Prisoners

Sierra Oscar

The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors is expected to call on the government to create a specialized agency that deals with the transportation of prisoners later today.

Call for end to prisoners in garda cars

Zambia

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors is expected to call on the government to create a specialized agency that deals with the transportation of prisoners later today.

Call for end to prisoners in garda cars

I don't understand I assumed the prison service transported prisoners to and from court unless there was like a High profile prisoner .Then the Gardai and army tagged along

Hooch

As above Zambia, its the same in every station that covers a prison like limericks, cork etc except there is no prison van in the country

TheNog

Id certainly agree with the installation of Digital recording in all Garda stations within the public office/custody suite and in the cells. Also for the love of god lets have a new caution where we dont have to conduct interviews in written format. Interviews will be completed much more effectively and quicker too. This will in turn release 2 Gardai back to other duties.

Why not transfer some public servants into the Dept of Justice to help out with typing, public office duties/Station Orderly etc and free us up. Considering recruitment is cut this would use our resources a bit more efficiently.

happyhappy

happyhappy wrote: »

in dublin, all remand prisoners, as in those not committed to serve a sentence, are the responsibility of the gardai to transport to and from court. there is a garda 'prison' van that transports prisoners to and from cloverhill prison to court in dublin city centre every day. equsally gardai transport prisoners to various courts around the country on a daily basis. i've often had to go to st pats or oberstown to collect juveniles to bring to the childrens court.

it only becomes the responsibility of prison officers if they are serving a sentence or are on remand for a circuit court matter.

the headline on that newspaper article is misleading and the article doesn't actually explain what the agsi are calling for.

I had one a few weeks back where five of us transported three prisoners from St Pats to a country court and the Prison Service transported another one from the same institution to the same court. The lad they were transporting was actually a Co-accused as one of the lads we had. I can see no reason why they couldn't have carried all four prisoners in the large van that used for one prisoner. Resources should be pooled in cases like this. Even have the mules travel with the prison service or vice versa.

Turner

Alot of the times taxi's are used to transport the garda and the prisoner.

Totally unsuitable.

bryanmurr

Chief--- wrote: »

Alot of the times taxi's are used to transport the garda and the prisoner.

Totally unsuitable.

i've never seen that.

Hooch

bryanmurr wrote: »

i've never seen that.

If your in dmr you wont see it. Its a major everyday occurence in the sticks

Chief---

Chief--- wrote: »

Alot of the times taxi's are used to transport the garda and the prisoner.

Totally unsuitable.

Actually saw this once in the Bridewell. Two detectives with one prisoner up from Limerick in a taxi.

Com1186

in fairness to prison officers.....there not covered to carry remand prisoners....had one where i had one prisoner going to cloverhill / wheatfiled and the prison service had a big vancarrying one prisoner with four prison staff. could nt carry mine back as on remand....... had to follow them in squad car with another member, it is a waste but sure thats the rules.... if they carried my prisoner and something happened.....all of us in trouble.

lehanemore

foreign wrote: »

Actually saw this once in the Bridewell. Two detectives with one prisoner up from Limerick in a taxi.

yep, a guy I used to work with now has a taxi and has a run from Cork to Dublin on a regular basis, often the runs are very early morning or late at night.

deadwood

Ah yes,

Those fun-filled trips where the taxi driver is afraid to go within an asses roar of the speed limit and the prisoner wants to stop for a piss every 10 minutes, "or i'll boooorst, guard".

Then the chat on the way home while the cute hoor of a senior guard gets into the back seat like **** from a goose and you're left with the smell of a vanilla magic tree in your nostrils and the taxi drivers world weary opinion on the Cork Hurleyball/Ireland soccerball/economy fiasco.

Hooch

deadwood wrote: »

Ah yes,

Those fun-filled trips where the taxi driver is afraid to go within an asses roar of the speed limit and the prisoner wants to stop for a piss every 10 minutes, "or i'll boooorst, guard".

Then the chat on the way home while the cute hoor of a senior guard gets into the back seat like **** from a goose and you're left with the smell of a vanilla magic tree in your nostrils and the taxi drivers world weary opinion on the Cork Hurleyball/Ireland soccerball/economy fiasco.

Glad to see your back....your wit was missed for the few days:D

goldie fish

deadwood wrote: »

Ah yes,

Those fun-filled trips where the taxi driver is afraid to go within an asses roar of the speed limit and the prisoner wants to stop for a piss every 10 minutes, "or i'll boooorst, guard".

Then the chat on the way home while the cute hoor of a senior guard gets into the back seat like **** from a goose and you're left with the smell of a vanilla magic tree in your nostrils and the taxi drivers world weary opinion on the Cork Hurleyball/Ireland soccerball/economy fiasco.

You forgot meeting the prisoner hitch-hiking home after the prison give him T/R, while you were off getting a cuppa after delivering him.
I hate the NCR.

deadwood

You get tea?:eek:

goldie fish

deadwood wrote: »

You get tea?:eek:

The old mule in the taxi with me was fimiliar with the area....Grabbed a cuppa in Mountjoy Garda Stn before heading back to the culchies. He needed to "make a phone call".

johnnyskeleton

Makes sense - technically I don't think Gardai have the power to transport prisoners (as in sentenced persons and persons remanded in custody), it's more of an ad-hoc system that has developed whenever there are no prison officers available and the alternative is to ask the person to go off and hand themselves into the prison.

Rather than a new agency, more prison officers are needed. Perhaps in the alternative, the courts service could try to have custody cases and cases that are likely to result in a prison sentence to be heard together. Occasionally, where in a court only one person goes to jail (e.g. a road traffic summons list), the prison services are caught unawares.

TheNog wrote: »

Id certainly agree with the installation of Digital recording in all Garda stations within the public office/custody suite and in the cells.

Would be great. Perhaps also in any backroom or courtyard just to cover all bases.

TheNog wrote: »

Also for the love of god lets have a new caution where we dont have to conduct interviews in written format. Interviews will be completed much more effectively and quicker too. This will in turn release 2 Gardai back to other duties.

Should be optional rather than complete overhaul. Many gardai use the painfully slow writing process to break suspects. If interviews are not written, how are you going to fill up 6 hours (nevermind 7 days for drug trafficing offences)?

TheNog wrote: »

Why not transfer some public servants into the Dept of Justice to help out with typing, public office duties/Station Orderly etc and free us up. Considering recruitment is cut this would use our resources a bit more efficiently.

Why not have tick the box pro forma statements?

On _____________[date] I [saw/recieved a complaint that] __________ [accused] commit the [murder/rape/theft] of ___________[victim or property].

In fact, you could probably have a microsoft word macro which would write most of the statement for you.

deadwood

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Why not have tick the box pro forma statements?

On _____________[date] I [saw/recieved a complaint that] __________ [accused] commit the [murder/rape/theft] of ___________[victim or property].

In fact, you could probably have a microsoft word macro which would write most of the statement for you.

Cool!

Just like conveyancing!

Zambia

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Personally I reckon neither the Prison Service or the AGS should be involved in this line of work. Chances are it would be much cheaper to simply create another dept "Prisoner Transport Services".

If any prisoner is to be transported anywhere you simply book a time for them to call collect the Accused and drop them back. This would be regardless of remand status.

It would mean the vehicles they use would be purpose built for the transport of prisoners. I would even go a step further and privatise this to a private firm. Then in turn have a goverment body simply oversee the standard of service via periodic inspections etc.

Having a fully trained member of AGS sat in a court with a prisoner is a waste of time and resources.

480905

Zambia232 wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Personally I reckon neither the Prison Service or the AGS should be involved in this line of work. Chances are it would be much cheaper to simply create another dept "Prisoner Transport Services".

If any prisoner is to be transported anywhere you simply book a time for them to call collect the Accused and drop them back. This would be regardless of remand status.

It would mean the vehicles they use would be purpose built for the transport of prisoners. I would even go a step further and privatise this to a private firm. Then in turn have a goverment body simply oversee the standard of service via periodic inspections etc.

Having a fully trained member of AGS sat in a court with a prisoner is a waste of time and resources.

They tried to do that in the recent goings on as regards to pay .Thats when PSEC ,The Prison Service Escort Corps was formed. The management were hell bent on privatising the escorts and taking it away from prison staff but they ran into a few problems. The security companies aren't as strict on recruitment as the Prison Service and the AGS.It turned out that some companies overlooked minor convictions when hiring staff. And you simply can't have that when dealing with a convicted person,to have another convicted person in charge of escorting them to Prison.That was a big hitch. Also the Party that was pushing for the Privatisation ,The PD's, had a connection at a high level in a company that was well placed to pitch for the contract. Didn't look too good for them when this came out. . . . And where are the PD's now????? As Tom Mc Parlon said after their trouncing in the elections " I met a lot of disgruntled Prison Officers and their extended families on the door steps" He attributed his defeat directly to this.

johnnyskeleton

deadwood wrote: »

Cool!

Just like conveyancing!

Exactly. And investigation of title (or in this case guilt) is just a technicality.

happyhappy wrote:

i think the opposite is the case here - it is seriously hard to interview someone when you ahve to write everything down - if it was done the other way (as in all other countries) you could at least ask questions at conversation pace and then break suspects that way (as you phased it!)

The slow interview builds the pressure, and some gardai write extra slowly just for this effect. It drives some accused bananas, especially the ones who would rather confess and go to jail rather than be interviewed any longer.

Another technique used is to ask the same questions over and over again, over the course of several 2 hour interviews. This would not have the same effect if it was a conversation style interview.

But for minor offences by accused likely to confess straight up, not writing it down would be better as the interview could be conducted in 30 minutes or so.