Sculpture in Gardens

Sonnenblumen

Does art appeal to gardeners? Would many consider installing figurative bronze sculpture in the garden?

Art and garden have much in common, sharing universal qualities which celebrate the joy of form, the joy of being and the constant vitality of graceful movement.

Introducing Anastasia, Chloe and Grace......

mikom

This Sunday's market research for landscapers is brought to you by the letters A, R, and T.

Ellechim

yes to sculpture in the garden

as for these three biddies, well I'll pass.

Give me something better hung any day ;);)

Sonnenblumen

mikom wrote: »

This Sunday's market research for landscapers is brought to you by the letters A, R, and T.

Mikom,

why is it that your efforts often remind me of weeds? I'm sure they might be appreciated somewhere but rarely where they're found!

The Sweeper

I like features to be part of a garden, not just some bronze bint being gratuitously nekkid and shoved on a random spot in the lawn. She might be more interesting if you trained a creeper over her...

If you want a nekkid woman in your garden, use her as part of the garden. Make a sculpture that lies on the ground, curved around, and is suitable for one side of a pond, for instance, with fingers that will trail in the water.

Alterntively, use Grace's upstretched arms as support for some other mini feature - but saying that, I like my gardens a little wild and secret-garden-ish, and am not crazy about the formality of a bronze sculpture on a manicured lawn.

Sonnenblumen

Majd

appreciate your comments and thanks for some useful ideas. There will of course be a range of views on figurative sculpture in gardens and as you rightly say how they are positioned and/or have a wider role will also impact on opinions etc.

The photos are artificial in so far as they do not show actual garden settings but rather an impromptu effort to provide an image of piece within planting. In a real situation they would also be positioned on small plinths.

It remains to be seen how peolple react to the 'naked' aspects which I personally felt was more discreet.

On a more general note, art in garden is rare but growing, and as with many discussions on beauty etc, opinions/views are essentially very subjective but pertinent to that individual, which is perhaps also why some people have made enbquiries via email.

I would envisage figurative sculpture to feature as discreet additions within confined spaces and to add a certain atmosphere/ambiance within a particular area, which may not otherwise be present/much in evidence.

Thanks again for your comments.

starbelgrade

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Does art appeal to gardeners? Would many consider installing figurative bronze sculpture in the garden?

Art and garden have much in common, sharing universal qualities which celebrate the joy of form, the joy of being and the constant vitality of graceful movement.

Introducing Anastasia, Chloe and Grace......

I quite like them - are you selling them? I don't have any spare cash now, just curious!

magicbastarder

i know someone who was giving away an abstract sculpture made from wood and copper a few years ago - i didn't take it as my garden is tiny. but in hindsight, i should have grabbed it. it was lovely and organic looking.

Sonnenblumen

starbelgrade wrote: »

I quite like them - are you selling them? I don't have any spare cash now, just curious!

Thanks. Yes the sculpture will be an integral part of a very special product range of garden products which we will showcase and sell from new showrooms, opening shortly in Dublin.

Sonnenblumen

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know someone who was giving away an abstract sculpture made from wood and copper a few years ago - i didn't take it as my garden is tiny. but in hindsight, i should have grabbed it. it was lovely and organic looking.

What a pity, I can only agree with your sentiments. There are many examples of abstract objects which can become 'art-like' in a subtle twist of context within the garden.

Bog Oak is a good example, weather beaten rock or boulders with well defined textured surafaces are amazingly beautiful alongside machined stone. Contrast can appeal and demand closer attention, in producing a focal point a new interest emerges and whether the subject has been made by hand and/or nature, there is no denying that the nett result can be one of great surprise and lasting attraction.

artieanna

The ladies I think are too light or thin looking... I think larger or chunkier pieces would look more permanent and solid in the open space of a garden..

They are graceful and have nice movement...

I dunno just my sixpence....

old boy

a waste of space, i would prefer to buy plants, i bet they are expensive.

TequilaMockingBird

In my opinion, the style is a little dated. I can picture them holding a lamp on my Aunties hall table. Personally I would prefer something a bit more discreet. If I could design a piece in that material, I would prefer something more abstract, that would blend more with the garden, these (imo), would stand out rather harshly.

But horses for courses!

Sonnenblumen

Many thanks for the feedback, keep them coming! It's very interesting to see very clear but conflicting preferences/opinions, eg too light, too discreet, must be bigger, too figurative , more abstract etc.

The sculpture is technically a very example of its type, ie well executed cast bronze (with a copper content > 90%), a high degree of skillful hand craft is required to achieved this level of finish. Heights range form 145cm-152cm, so quite tall, weight approx 18-21kg (that's a lot of bronze).

In hindsight the photos are perhaps a little crude and because they do not feature the bases/plinths, some of the definition that would be present is missing.

Whatever the views on the subjects, there is no denying the quality of execution and finish is very impressive.

PS I forgot to mention that the sculptures are also used very effectively in courtyards/recessed areas/alcove and small patios, where the elegant grace can be impressive.

Sonnenblumen

old boy wrote: »

a waste of space, i would prefer to buy plants, i bet they are expensive.

Fair enough, and yes they are 'expensive', but that said, on occasion, I've paid lots more for particular plants. In fact I've paid more for a tree than some people spend on their car? In fact I've seen trees for sale costing more than a holiday apartment!!

Waste of space? Far from it, it's what makes life exciting and more interesting.

Ellechim

More seriously.

I love the idea of sculpture in the garden and I'm sure these are very well made and no doubt expensive, but I have to say, they really are not attractive and look very 'samey' and dare I sound snobby but the kind of thing you might find in B&Q.

Furthermore there is a limited market for this kind of thing given that most of us have smallish suburban gardens - this kind of thing ust won't look right in a 40ft by 30ft back garden......

Sorry, that is just my opinion but I would not buy them. If I was going to spend good money for a sculpture for my garden I want something unusual.

That said, i do know of a large house in the midlands which has a few huge sculptures in the garden including a lifesize sculpture of a racehorse and jockey - now not my taste at all but it floats their boat...............

Dizzyblonde

Sonnenblumen I think they're amazing and would look fabulous in the right setting. I love sculpture in a garden and when we sort out our garden I'll definitely be looking to include something like that.

Sonnenblumen

Ellechim wrote: »

More seriously.

I love the idea of sculpture in the garden and I'm sure these are very well made and no doubt expensive, but I have to say, they really are not attractive and look very 'samey' and dare I sound snobby but the kind of thing you might find in B&Q.

Furthermore there is a limited market for this kind of thing given that most of us have smallish suburban gardens - this kind of thing ust won't look right in a 40ft by 30ft back garden......

Sorry, that is just my opinion but I would not buy them. If I was going to spend good money for a sculpture for my garden I want something unusual.

That said, i do know of a large house in the midlands which has a few huge sculptures in the garden including a lifesize sculpture of a racehorse and jockey - now not my taste at all but it floats their boat...............

When have you seen expensive genuine cast bronze (not to be confused with typical products stocked ie nasty imitations usually metallised coated plastic/clay, resin bonded or hollow plastic products) in any DIY Multiple/Shed?

I am happy to accept your opinion that you'd prefer something more original, but I think your rational and arguments are fundamentally flawed. Also I'm always nervous when someone makes gross generalisations about what's good for enormous swathes of our communities or environments. The typical sub-urban garden despite some commonality in size does actually vary enormously in style and sophistication. Why? This is not surprising because style is determined by owners preference to express a particular style and layout.

But your point seems to make a link between house size (type) and style and that does sound snobby?

Ellechim

Sonnenblumen,

I'm normally more diplomatic so my apologies if I've offended you.

I have seen (and my parent's owned some) very expensive cast bronze - and I have to say that up close yes you can tell the imitation but from a distance it is virtually impossible to - yes if you're a professional but not if you're a layperson from 20/30feet.

As for the mass generalisation - I agree with your point that garden size, design and styles vary hugely - what I was trying to say was that in my view a large sculpture would not be appropriate for most average sized suburban gardens given their size......these are the size of a grown adult and you need space to show them off. Additionally many suburban gardens are like mine, full of children's toys, bikes, etc and places where a sculpture just wouldn't look right.

These statues would not appeal to me - I don't find them elegant or graceful - they actually look tacky to me as they remind me of reproductions of the kind of alabaster statues that are sold really cheaply in holiday resorts in Greece and Spain. They are not original, nor could they be called 'art'. So maybe I am a snob for not liking these designs, but I can live with being called a snob on this one. We are each entitled to our own taste - you did ask for opinions and I was quite honest.

Hopefully we can agree to differ given that taste is a very personal matter. For the record, I also can't stand all types of football, especially on the telly, country music, Daniel O'Donnell, Pat Kenny, decking, stripey highlights or strawberry flavoured things.;)

The Sweeper

You know, one interesting point is the correlation between 'stuff in the garden' and 'it must be cheap imitation'.

A popular feature over here is a cast iron urn that sits on a pedestal - voila:

http://www.2ndgenerationantiques.com/images/products/garden/G15%20Lg%20tall%20cast%20iron%20urns%20on%20pedestals.jpg

Our local auction has these pass through occasionally. Usually they go for around $900 the set - half for the pedestal, half for the urn. Takes two or three blokes to carry them forward for viewing when their lot number comes up.

They recently had an imitation set made from plaster come up for auction, went for about $400. The weirdest thing was seeing one bloke carrying the urn in one hand and the pedestal in the other - it was such a well-made, convincing imitiation that when he picked it up everyone in the place burst out laughing - it looked so unbelievable.

But these are popular items because of how they interact with the contents of the garden - they can act as a standalone piece in a corner or the centre of a bed; they can be used as planters and have trailing plants in them; they can be used as part of a set to mark an entranceway and so on. They can be used formally or informally.

I do feel the female form has been used and abused in abstract sculpture to the point where it is now quite tired. It's like "no matter how unrecognisable the rest of the features on this humanoid shape, it still has BOOBIES!!!" I'd rather see more androgynous humanoid sculpture, or more organic sculpture - sort of like feng shui for the garden...

Sonnenblumen

Ellechim wrote: »

I have seen (and my parent's owned some) very expensive cast bronze - and I have to say that up close yes you can tell the imitation but from a distance it is virtually impossible to - yes if you're a professional but not if you're a layperson from 20/30feet.

These statues would not appeal to me - I don't find them elegant or graceful - they actually look tacky to me as they remind me of reproductions of the kind of alabaster statues that are sold really cheaply in holiday resorts in Greece and Spain. They are not original, nor could they be called 'art'. We are each entitled to our own taste - you did ask for opinions and I was quite honest.

Hopefully we can agree to differ given that taste is a very personal matter.

I have previously acknowledged your opinions, but curious to understand what you mean when you say 'expensive cast bronze' and 'imitation'?

Understanding the differences is important and is quite separate to what you might think of the forms. Casting bronze using the traditional methods is a highly skilled and labour intensive way of producing bronze sculpture no matter what the design might be. 'Cheap alabaster' are usually made in organised factory environments, much like the way concrete wall cappings, window cills etc are produced. Cheap production costs, with basic materials to meet the demand of particular price points. Occasionally they are also made by 'small time' DIY operators using rubber moulds trying to earn some extra pocket money.

So it is important to distinguish between ignorance and opinion. Expressing an opinion is one thing and fine but it is quite a leap to also make erroneous and deliberately misleading comments.

Casting bronze using traditional methods is a challenging and highly skilled process. Because you do not like the design does not entitle warrant any unfair criticism of how the piece was made and to draw comparisons to 'alabaster products' fails miserably to at least acknowledge the nature and skills required in the first instance. You do not need to be professional to recognise the skilled handwork of the person.

Rather than discuss the aesthetics of 'original' and 'art', I'd prefer to simply acknowledge your opinion and to clarify the skill and integrity of the processes involved in making the sculpture.

Ellechim

Sonnenblumen,

At no point have I cast any aspertions on the labour or craftmanship that goes into making these sculptures. I am aware of the differences between mass production and the materials used and of the work that goes into producing one-off pieces. I am also quite familiar with the design process.

I simply do not like these designs. I have no issue with the quality of the worksmanship, and have never stated that. They remind me of something which I don't particularly like, I'm perfectly entitled to make connections between things, as we all are. That is not misleading - it is my opinion and I am perfectly entitled to it. I did not say 'these sculptures are poor quality' what I did say is that I don't like them and I think the designs are poor and that THE DESIGNS remind me of something......

Your tone is totally condescending. If you put up a post looking for opinions on a public forum you have to be prepared for criticism, humour, disagreement and responses that you don't like. But before you respond in such a derogatory tone you need to read properly what has been posted.

Ellechim

Your original question was 'does art appeal to gardeners'.

Of course art appeals to gardeners - however - we all have our very own definition of what constitutes art.

My point is that I don't particularly think these statues are 'art'.

I don't think that you can say someone's ability to cast in bronze necessarily means that what they produce is art - it means they are good at casting, not necessarily designing. I think you are missing the difference.

mikom

This Sunday's market research for landscapers has been brought to you by the word "different" and the letters T,A,S,T,E and S.

Sonnenblumen

Ellechim wrote: »

Sonnenblumen,

At no point have I cast any aspertions on the labour or craftmanship that goes into making these sculptures. I am aware of the differences between mass production and the materials used and of the work that goes into producing one-off pieces. I am also quite familiar with the design process.

I simply do not like these designs. I have no issue with the quality of the worksmanship, and have never stated that. They remind me of something which I don't particularly like, I'm perfectly entitled to make connections between things, as we all are. That is not misleading - it is my opinion and I am perfectly entitled to it. I did not say 'these sculptures are poor quality' what I did say is that I don't like them and I think the designs are poor and that THE DESIGNS remind me of something......

Your tone is totally condescending. If you put up a post looking for opinions on a public forum you have to be prepared for criticism, humour, disagreement and responses that you don't like. But before you respond in such a derogatory tone you need to read properly what has been posted.

OK you've made your points, you do not like the sculpture, that's fine and I've no problem with accepting your opinions. What I do not accept are your unfounded criticism of how the sculpture was made, the quality of the finish and the integrity of the person who made the sculpture.

Finally, it is odd and indeed disappointing for someone 'very familiar with the design process' could be so confused and critical on the integrity and fine art involved in casting bronze.

Sonnenblumen

Ellechim wrote: »

Your original question was 'does art appeal to gardeners'.

Of course art appeals to gardeners - however - we all have our very own definition of what constitutes art.

My point is that I don't particularly think these statues are 'art'.

I don't think that you can say someone's ability to cast in bronze necessarily means that what they produce is art - it means they are good at casting, not necessarily designing. I think you are missing the difference.

OK please explain what are the critical elements that constitute 'good' design and how would one distinguish 'art' from 'crafted by hand' eg casting. Is there an empirical method for distinguishing or differentiating 'good' design from 'art' and is there a relationship between 'bad design' and something which is not considered 'art'?

Also does the design methodlogy or processes for producing 'good' design differ from producing 'art'?

Ellechim

Sonnenblumen -

There are many crafts which involve extensive training, skill and labour however the end product isn't necessarily classed as art. Pottery, cut glass, embroidery, crochet, knitting - there are people who produce pieces of knitting which are classed as art..........

In terms of what is good design and what is art well we could debate that until the cows come home. There probably is a wall in a library somewhere defining these things. From my perspective good design and good art are things which are truly original, like very good writing - true to the creator with perhaps a glimpse of genius and which moves me.

I have not at any point criticised the maker or questioned their skill in any way or the process by which they produce these sculptures. You are not reading my posts properly. That's the second time I've said it now. I'm sure they are absolutely excellent - I just don't like the designs they are choosing to produce.

Hope that makes it clear?