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aarymark

cullen threatens us style ban on internet gambling!!!!!!!!!!

Lao Lao

aarymark wrote: »

cullen threatens us style ban on internet gambling!!!!!!!!!!

Linky??

Grafter

Lao Lao wrote: »

Linky??

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/cullen-threatens-usstyle-ban-on-internet-gambling-1698943.html

Hectorjelly

Cullen threatens US-style ban on internet gambling




Sunday April 05 2009

EXCLUSIVE

Minister for Sport Martin Cullen has threatened to ban internet betting in Ireland if bookmakers here don't cough up more money to the Exchequer for the controversial Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund.

Tuesday's emergency budget will confirm that the Fund will be reduced by just over €1.5m for this year, despite widespread predictions that it was facing a major cut in the face of the country's worsening economic situation.

However, the Minister claimed last week that Government funding was drawing to a close and said that Irish bookmakers and offshore gamblers would have to pick up the bill for the horse racing industry in the future.

"It is not sustainable to continue to support this fund from the Exchequer," Cullen told an Oireachtas committee last week. "The big players will need to come to the plate. A view will need to be formed about internet and offshore betting. I will use whatever legal levers are available to me to get at that funding in terms of trying to get some tax out of it."

The Minister, who said that a levy of 0.5 per cent on internet gambling would yield over €100m, added: "The reality is that most betting is now offshore. There are choices to be made, and I am making it clear to the industry that we will make those choices. The ultimate choice would be to ban it. That approach has been taken in America and perhaps it will be taken in other countries as well. However, I do not want to go down that road. I believe there is a means of taking action."

Industry estimates suggest that between €1.5bn and €1.7bn of Irish money a year is wagered outside this country in telephone and internet betting. Cullen believes that a tax on all of that gambling should pay for Irish horse and dog racing, yet only a small proportion of that money is actually gambled on Irish races. Irish horse racing accounts for just 16 per cent of the turnover of Ireland's largest bookmakers, Paddy Power. In contrast, betting on cross-channel racing accounts for almost half the firm's business.

Ireland's decision to give all its betting tax receipts to just two sports is in stark contrast to the regimes in the UK and Australia. But the Government's plan has the support of the horse racing and greyhound industries here.

"I employ 100 people and I can't get off the merry-go-round," said leading trainer Jim Bolger. "Ten of my employees are people that came back to me in the last six months that used to be with me years ago. They went off working on the building sites and such places and they had been made redundant."

However, bookmakers fear the move will lead to severe job losses. "Ours isn't an Irish business, it's an international business," said Paddy Power yesterday. "By the end of this year, 80 per cent of our internet customers will be from overseas. Therefore, a tax on this is effectively a tax on Irish jobs for very little return -- only €5m would be raised by taxing Irish-located telephone betting businesses (Paddy Power, Boyles etc).

"And by the way, HRI is already way overfunded in comparison to other countries. What exactly has happened to the €545m in direct grants they have received over the past eight years?"

By the end of this year, that figure will have risen to over €600m as the Sunday Independent can reveal that the Government intends to make €68.128m available to the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund.

The new figure, down marginally on the original €69.7m in the Estimates, was passed after a proposal to that effect by Minister Cullen was given the green light at last Thursday's joint committee meeting.

And that's good news for a number of extremely wealthy tax exiles and foreign citizens who are among the biggest winners of prize money in Irish racing. Minster Cullen told the committee that the cash injection was needed to preserve jobs in the industry but the most recent figures available, seen by the Sunday Independent, show that over half of Horse Racing Ireland's expenditure goes on prize money.

In 2007, almost one-third of overall prize money in Flat racing ended up in the hands of a mere eight owners. These included Mrs John Magnier, wife of tax exile John Magnier, the Aga Khan, the Maktoums, Derrick Smith, a former director of Ladbrokes based in Barbados, and Michael Tabor, a former London bookie now enjoying tax exile status in Monaco. The highest earning National Hunt owner, with over €1m, was another tax exile, JP McManus.

Although the fund has been reduced by almost 10 per cent in the last 12 months, it makes up a third of the country's total sports budget, up from one quarter in 2008, because of cuts in other areas. The Sports Capital Programme, which since its inception eight years ago, has aided 6,700 projects across the country, has been axed. And the Irish Sports Council, which funds 63 different sporting bodies, 33 local sports partnerships and all our elite athletes, will receive less than €60m.

See Page 16

- EAMONN SWEENEY

fatguy

I do not want to go down that road.

.

latenia

The real issue is why the feck horseracing and the dogs are given €70M from the taxpayer on top of the generous taxbreaks already given for stallion fees. Why not subsidise the blackjack tables at the Fitz or make the Saturday football coupons tax deductible?

brianmc

Hectorjelly wrote: »

Therefore, a tax on this is effectively a tax on Irish jobs for very little return -- only €5m would be raised by taxing Irish-located telephone betting businesses (Paddy Power, Boyles etc).

Sweet spin by PP.

Who bets by telephone these days?

ITT-Pat

brianmc wrote: »

Sweet spin by PP.

Who bets by telephone these days?

you'd be surprised by the huge volume of telephone bettors

Rod & Reel

it wasnt so long ago when we were paying 10% tax on all betting in this country. are we heading back that way again. it would make sense in the current climate. im sure a lot of people would completely disagree with it but 10% on a E10 bet =10c makes little odds to price. if u were putting E1000 and 10%, still i dont see any difference if u can afford E1000 to bet u can afford the 10% tax.

but maybe it will be 3/4% this budget and the remainder added in dec to make the 10%.

anywhich way ya look lads we are going to get screwed back ta front for the next couple of years.

Degag

Eh? 10% of €10 is a bit more than 10c....

strewelpeter

latenia wrote: »

The real issue is why the feck horseracing and the dogs are given €70M from the taxpayer on top of the generous taxbreaks already given for stallion fees. Why not subsidise the blackjack tables at the Fitz or make the Saturday football coupons tax deductible?

Because of the huge amount of employment and exports involved in the industry.

brianmc

ITT-Pat wrote: »

you'd be surprised by the huge volume of telephone bettors

Perhaps, it's still good spin.

kincsem

Rod & Reel wrote: »

it wasnt so long ago when we were paying 10% tax on all betting in this country. are we heading back that way again. it would make sense in the current climate. im sure a lot of people would completely disagree with it but 10% on a E10 bet =10c makes little odds to price. if u were putting E1000 and 10%, still i dont see any difference if u can afford E1000 to bet u can afford the 10% tax.

but maybe it will be 3/4% this budget and the remainder added in dec to make the 10%.

anywhich way ya look lads we are going to get screwed back ta front for the next couple of years.

"if u can afford E1000 to bet" -
The point when betting is to to make a profit on your stake, and get your stake back. Serious betters can't "afford it". It is not a hobby. If you now make 5% profit with 0% tax, then a 10% tax will give a 5% loss. I will not bet with a 10% tax. I did in the past and it was impossible to make a profit.

Of course what the minister is doing is putting a 10% tax on betting shop punters. In a recession many unemployed bring their dole into the bookie to pass the time. It is called "recycling dole money". The minister wants a share of this and he will stoop that low. It is another tax on the poor.

NickyOD

The title of the article says he's threatening a ban but it goes on to quote Cullen saying "That approach has been taken in America and perhaps it will be taken in other countries as well. However, I do not want to go down that road. I believe there is a means of taking action."

At a time when the governement are raiding every piggy bank they can find they sure as hell aren't going to ban something they can pinch more than a few pennnies from.

Tight Ted

Yikes!- I think we are safe though.:pac:

Hectorjelly

The government should legalise all drugs and tax them. In one fell swoop they would add a fortune to the exchequer, decriminalise an entire class of people and make a bold swoop for freedom.

carfax

Hectorjelly wrote: »

The government should legalise all drugs and tax them. In one fell swoop they would add a fortune to the exchequer, decriminalise an entire class of people and make a bold swoop for freedom.

Don't know if you're joking there or not, but I agree completely.

_____________________

Anyway, back on topic. We're all still going to be able to play online poker yeah?

Stephen.

El Stuntman

carfax wrote: »

Anyway, back on topic. We're all still going to be able to play online poker yeah?

Stephen.

the new 'fun tax' due to be announced tomorrow will kill internet poker in this country - press release from the Department of Finance below

"Gambling, drinking, riding, playing sport and all other forms of pleasure will also be eradicated under the Minister's proposals. The formerly feckless and fun-loving Irish will be reduced to hard-working humourless automatons with no sense of humour and a permanent scowl. Thankfully we already have 500,000 Eastern Europeans in the country to show us how this is done."

kincsem

Hectorjelly wrote: »

The government should legalise all drugs and tax them. In one fell swoop they would add a fortune to the exchequer, decriminalise an entire class of people and make a bold swoop for freedom.

My Mammy takes fistfulls of pills every day. :rolleyes:

El Stuntman

kincsem wrote: »

My Mammy takes fistfulls of pills every day. :rolleyes:

I hear she's a devil for the disco biscuits alright

kincsem

Hectorjelly wrote: »

The government should legalise all drugs and tax them. In one fell swoop they would add a fortune to the exchequer, decriminalise an entire class of people and make a bold swoop for freedom.

There are four shops vacant in the Stillorgan Shopping centre due to the recession. Seems like a business opportunity. And it would keep the unemployed happy.

RoundTower

El Stuntman wrote: »

I hear she's a devil for the disco biscuits alright

so that's why they call it the love drug

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

El Stuntman

kincsem wrote: »

There are four shops vacant in the Stillorgan Shopping centre due to the recession. Seems like a business opportunity. And it would keep the unemployed happy.

lol Sean, never misses an opportunity to pimp Stillorgan SC!

Rod & Reel

kincsem wrote: »

"if u can afford E1000 to bet" -
The point when betting is to to make a profit on your stake, and get your stake back. Serious betters can't "afford it". It is not a hobby. If you now make 5% profit with 0% tax, then a 10% tax will give a 5% loss. I will not bet with a 10% tax. I did in the past and it was impossible to make a profit.

Of course what the minister is doing is putting a 10% tax on betting shop punters. In a recession many unemployed bring their dole into the bookie to pass the time. It is called "recycling dole money". The minister wants a share of this and he will stoop that low. It is another tax on the poor.

kincsem i know the old story of the dole office to the bookies with the pub across the road. who put there money on a sure thing bar a slip up
but i take ur point a serious gambler looks to make .6% profit year on year and 10% would leave them in negative equity.
i was typin with out thinking. my thinking was if u can afford a 1000 bet u can afford the tax. and if u can afford a 1000 plus bet i dont think its a tax on the poor.

The C Kid

Do people actually take Martin Cullen seriously?

NickyOD

The C Kid wrote: »

Do people actually take Martin Cullen seriously?

No. No one does.

ocallagh

That horse & greyhound fund is a joke - 600m in funding for 2 sports????? holy ****ing ****..

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/backing-the-wrong-horse-1428575.html

hotspur

If anyone wants to read the report on the state funding of the horse racing industry referred to by Fahey and Delaney I can't find an online one so I uploaded my copy to megaupload, just in case anyone wanted to read it.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=27MB029B

There's a UCC one too:
http://www.ucc.ie/en/economics/research/workingpaperseries/downloads/DocumentFile,60740,en.pdf