enda tonight

x in the city

Wonder is Cowen weeping now or stuffing himself watching this in his 50" plasma at home...

Nodin

x in the city wrote: »

Wonder is Cowen weeping now or stuffing himself watching this in his 50" plasma at home...

Weepin with laughter. Apparently hes after quoting Abe Lincoln. I couldn't watch.

If he could act like he was reported to have there last week, where he fucked a few of them out of it.....

is_that_so

Pity you didn't watch as it would have lent more credibility to your opinion. Kenny was out to rally the troops , offer some insight on their plans and attempt to present himself as an alternative Taoisaeach.
I thought he did well enough. Unlike the "contract with the nation" in the last election , almost all of what he said was in plain English and spelt out clearly and confidently. The multiple references to the team was a good approach and the lack of ambiguity on Lisbon was refreshing.

Some people wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances but for those who do actually vote and are not exclusively fixed on FF, he went some way towards selling himself as Taoiseach.

Furthermore FG actually do have a team, apart from the bashing Coveney occasionally gets, that is superior to what's in government. He and FG should get a decent bounce in the next set of opinion polls but there's a long way to go.

ScumLord

I thought it was pretty lame. He was just regurgitating the same old popular muck.

I heard him saying "no country has ever taxed itself out of a recession" like it was news, or others haven't been saying it all week. Then he plays on the Obama success by just rewording his slogan.

He's the guy who'll say what ever is popular to get people to like him.

tomcosgrave

He sounded like Cowen to me - underwhelming and the same old stuff.

FF and FG are the same party. The Civil War ended decades ago, time for them to merge back to what they should have been.

Mental Mickey

is_that_so wrote: »

Pity you didn't watch as it would have lent more credibility to your opinion. Kenny was out to rally the troops , offer some insight on their plans and attempt to present himself as an alternative Taoisaeach.
I thought he did well enough. Unlike the "contract with the nation" in the last election , almost all of what he said was in plain English and spelt out clearly and confidently. The multiple references to the team was a good approach and the lack of ambiguity on Lisbon was refreshing.

Some people wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances but for those who do actually vote and are not exclusively fixed on FF, he went some way towards selling himself as Taoiseach.

Furthermore FG actually do have a team, apart from the bashing Coveney occasionally gets, that is superior to what's in government. He and FG should get a decent bounce in the next set of opinion polls but there's a long way to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that I heard Richard Bruton mentioning the infamous "contract" during his address prior to Kenny's!? They're a rubbish opposition. And Kenny would be an awful Taoiseach.

Jack Sheehan

I never understand the hatred of Kenny. 'Oh god look at him he quoted Lincoln! What a joke!'. And? Why shouldnt he? There seems to be no winning with you guys. Hes either saying the same old stuff or making a fool of himself. Everyone seems to think hed be a terrible taoiseach, but really, how do you know? Fianna Fail have been in Power now for 12 long years. Give someone else a chance.

dresden8

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Fianna Fail have been in Power now for 12 long years.

And we all know they've played a blinder.

NewDubliner

The 'Sunday Independent' has no mention or comment, good or bad of the FG Ard Fheis. Maybe that's because the Indo staff don't work weekends?

DJDC

The indo has very much been a pro-FF and pro-construction industry/housing market newspaper lately. I only noticed this change in 2009 but maybe it has always existed. Just look out for it and it will become apparent. I find the Irish Times far more neutral.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

NewDubliner

DJDC wrote: »

The indo has very much been a pro-FF and pro-construction industry/housing market newspaper lately.

It led with a shock-horror about rich people being less rich

It's a sorry excuse for a newspaper, totally in hock to a rich elite.

(I hasten to add, I only read the online version....)

is_that_so

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that I heard Richard Bruton mentioning the infamous "contract" during his address prior to Kenny's!? They're a rubbish opposition. And Kenny would be an awful Taoiseach.

Missed that with Bruton, although Kenny did repeat that "can't tax your way out of recession" line. My point about that contract was that FG have dropped the much ridiculed idea in favour of lists and ideas that people can get their heads around.

I am also puzzled at how one can determine someone will be an awful Taoiseach. It's not a beauty contest or a reality show and this reinforces the comment I made on the other Ard Fheis thread. One would assume that people will vote on the basis of how good the party policies are. Although seeing as we voted for that superstar B Ahern for 10 years I wonder.

Opposition for the sake of it, is fine for sound bytes and makes the plain people of Ireland feel good. Lately all of the opposition parties have come up with their own proposals because there is a chance that this government will not last the duration. Long term we do expect more of opposition than just cheap government bashing.

Breezer

Can any of you who appear to be having so much fun bashing Enda please tell me what was actually wrong with what he said?

So far, the 'problems' pointed out are:

• He quoted Abraham Lincoln
• He pointed out that tax alone won't be enough to get us out of recession
• He paraphrased Obama
• He criticised the government

Wow. Shocking stuff there folks. The country's screwed if this guy ever gets in. :rolleyes:

You could at least have attacked the 'no income tax hikes for 3 years' bit, which IMO is a pointless idea, leaves FG open to be accused of stealth taxation, and was the weakest point of his speech. But no, the dithering culchie quoted Lincoln whilst making his points! It's far more important that we attack him over that! How very dare he!

Sully

He was on The Week in Poltics tonight. Thought he came across very well. A friend of mine, who has no interest in politics, watched Kennys speach (most of it, not all) last night. She was very impressed with his speach (found the accent hard to understand) and the way he presented himself.

I still dont understand the whole "not a leader type". Listen, nobody is going to get a barrack obama like candidate for a very long time. We just need someone who can lead a decent party with decent ideas to do well for our country. Thats all. We dont need someone with a special charm, or x-factor. We dont need a barrack obama type personality.

I would hope that most people can see past whatever "wooden" approach he may present and see him for what he really is. See what he can do for the party and what the party can do for this country. They have a very strong team behind them and this FG approach is really a fresh and new approach this country needs.

zootroid

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that I heard Richard Bruton mentioning the infamous "contract" during his address prior to Kenny's!? They're a rubbish opposition. And Kenny would be an awful Taoiseach.

Worse than Cowen? Who couldn't even see a recession was coming, and kept repeating something along the lines of the fundamentals being strong?

lostexpectation

kenny was described as father of the dail, longest serving, he too enamoured with the idea of parliament, he has too much respect for ff,and refuses to go in for the kill

Sully

dresden8 wrote: »

And we all know they've played a blinder.

Literally.

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that I heard Richard Bruton mentioning the infamous "contract" during his address prior to Kenny's!? They're a rubbish opposition. And Kenny would be an awful Taoiseach.

Dont think so. A rubbish opposition? Hardly. They have done very well in recent elections and polls. They have hit back at the government and came up with plans of action. They dont avoid questions when asked, or work the way around the question. They are a very good opposition compared to others. Awful Taoiseach? I fail to see how he is any worse then Cowen. If anything he has shown to be a better leader.

lostexpectation wrote: »

kenny was described as father of the dail, longest serving, he too enamoured with the idea of parliament, he has too much respect for ff,and refuses to go in for the kill

He has "gone in for the kill" a few times. There are ways and means of doing things and you cant just "go in for the kill" each time. If anything people winge that he (and FG) attack the government too much not too little.

Kenny has done right by his party and offers an excellent alternative to the people. The last thing FG needs right now is a new leader to start the whole mess again and risk loosing what Enda has achieved.

Breezer

lostexpectation wrote: »

kenny was described as father of the dail, longest serving, he too enamoured with the idea of parliament, he has too much respect for ff,and refuses to go in for the kill

So he acknowledges the fact that he's been there a long time? And?

'Enamoured with the idea of parliament'? What exactly does that mean? That he respects the democratic institutions of this country?

What exactly would 'going in for the kill' involve? Kenny has quite vocally highlighted pretty much everything this government has done wrong. He gets called a whinger for his trouble and people call for him to produce alternative policies. He produces these policies, and not one person here discusses them, prefering to continue to accuse him of quoting American politicians, or of attacking the government too much, or, in your case, not enough.

Does anyone actually have an opinion on anything the man said, or should I leave you all to rehash meaningless personal criticisms about him?

newname

Afternoon,

I like Enda Kenny and I think he would make a good enough Taoiseach.
He seems lika a decent man and thats important.

Just because some sections of the media think he should go does not mean he should be hounded out. I'm scunnered reading that sunday independant too... just pack of ordinary journalists spoutin off like everything they say in gospel. Who the f#*k are they anyway thinkin they know the solution to everything from public sector reform to who the people want to lead the country.

newname

newname wrote: »

Afternoon,

I like Enda Kenny and I think he would make a good enough Taoiseach.
He seems lika a decent man and thats important.

+1

And he can talk in manner that sounds more educated and civilised than Mr Cowen.

As for tomorrow I have no faith what so ever that this budget will be any better than the last one. If prices go up i.e. petrol, diesel, drink, cigarettes etc.. it will just send more people across the border and further decrease much needed revenue.
Also in relation to petrol and diesel, if this is increased this will be a disaster of a decision and we will no doubt see knock on effect increases in the prices of energy, transport, groceries, goods etc..

lostexpectation

Breezer wrote: »

So he acknowledges the fact that he's been there a long time? And?

'Enamoured with the idea of parliament'? What exactly does that mean? That he respects the democratic institutions of this country?

What exactly would 'going in for the kill' involve? Kenny has quite vocally highlighted pretty much everything this government has done wrong. He gets called a whinger for his trouble and people call for him to produce alternative policies. He produces these policies, and not one person here discusses them, prefering to continue to accuse him of quoting American politicians, or of attacking the government too much, or, in your case, not enough.

Does anyone actually have an opinion on anything the man said, or should I leave you all to rehash meaningless personal criticisms about him?

he kept claiming to have info on banking stuff and then backeddown, he never attacked bertie properly, he's too comfortable with the slow and incestuous institutions of the government depending on tribunals and SIPO etc, we'll get no clean up when he becomes taoiseach.

i said nothing personal, all political.

what are we said to talk about his fantastically useless committee not to raise income taxes while not ion government which he then reversed the next day

Breezer

lostexpectation wrote: »

he kept claiming to have info on banking stuff and then backeddown, he never attacked bertie properly, he's too comfortable with the slow and incestuous institutions of the government depending on tribunals and SIPO etc, we'll get no clean up when he becomes taoiseach.

i said nothing personal, all political.

what are we said to talk about his fantastically useless committee not to raise income taxes while not ion government which he then reversed the next day

Fair enough, at least you're giving reasons for most of your criticism. I'm still confused as to the significance of your 'father of the Dáil' comment, but no matter.

I don't think he ever claimed to actually have information on the 'golden circle.' He did hint at it, I'll admit that. On the other hand, he also had no concrete info on Bertie, yet you're criticising him for not applying political pressure there. Which is it you want?

Of course he's relying on the tribunals, SIPO etc. It's called 'due process.' Again, what would you prefer he did, bearing in mind that you've already criticised him for jumping to conclusions regarding the bankers?

The tax proposal, along with the other proposals he made, are what FG would do were it in government today. No one is suggesting that these proposals will be implemented from the opposition benches. Here we have yet another Catch 22: if Enda doesn't make proposals, he is criticised for having no policies; if he does, he is criticised for coming up with ideas that he can't implement.

For the record, he didn't reverse the tax proposal the next day. When questioned, he clarified the point that income tax would not be raised, but other levies would be imposed. He never said otherwise. I've already gone on record as saying it's a rather pointless distinction.

moonbug33

I thought the content was fairly predictable and his speech was delivered word perfect almost robotic. To me he looked awkward, tense, nervous and almost embarrassed. Maybe he would have come across better on the radio.

thebman

I thought Richard Bruton's speech was fantastic TBH.

Enda was on RTE one night talking about politicians pay or some such and the argument he put for not having cuts was basically "sure its always been like that". I don't that is good enough TBH.

It implies he hasn't even considered it and it makes it look like he hasn't a real answer to the question. I didn't catch his speech the other night.

As for the Independant, if they ignore the biggest opposition the government has then it says more about them than FG IMO.

I agree Enda Kenny gets a lot of unfair criticism but he also makes mistakes at times and given people seem to look for reasons not to vote FG rather than reasons they should, he needs to cut down on these errors.