More of the same, But it's not Bush. It's Obama.

mysterious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-LDtHyBs2s

What do you all think? Bull****, more war? different war? what's different? more crafted words?

What is the goal here?:rolleyes:
What is the threat?
Why are they the threat?
Who said they are the threat?
Why is the USA consistent in, invading and going into wars?
Why is USA pointing fingers again?
Why is USA trying to percieve theya are going to war for good reasons. When it's never a good reason to go to war.

This should be a topic of dicussion?

wylo

What kind of reply do you want?
Do you think the Al-Qaeda doesnt exist?

At the end of the day, whatever the original reasons there is such hatred of the West in some parts of the middle east (and yes I agree it is justified hatred), you cant deny the threat is now there.
Its not just America , its half of Europe there too. Do you honestly believe that the only way to get rid of that threat is for all these forces to just simply leave Afghanistan?

mysterious

wylo wrote: »

What kind of reply do you want?
Do you think the Al-Qaeda doesnt exist?

At the end of the day, whatever the original reasons there is such hatred of the West in some parts of the middle east (and yes I agree it is justified hatred), you cant deny the threat is now there.
Its not just America , its half of Europe there too. Do you honestly believe that the only way to get rid of that threat is for all these forces to just simply leave Afghanistan?

This is the behaviour that is JUST NOT APPROPRIATE.

When are we human beings going to understand.
When are we going to actually take a step back and not behave like animals
When are we going to stop repeating what's in the history book
When are we going to stop been fooled by these elites every fricken time.
When are we going to understand that it is this aggressive actions on the east, is what's causing people to resent the west. These are people just like you and I. How come people don't get these simple realities? You don't defeat terrorism by invading a nation and causing war. These wars are lies. These wars are about money. It's about blood. It's about oil. It's about a superpower taking more countries into their own hands. It's about power.

This is the biggest problem we still face in the politics of these wars today. Will you all get it already please. It's just to much for me trying to cope, when other's cant see what is really going on.


Watch the interview again, Now go and watch a simalar interview of Bush pre Iraq war. Are they any simalarities with them. Note the words they use. Note after every from of unacceptable behaviour term they use. I.e going to war. They use justifications for it. The "threat" is iminent. Note when they say, "mulitple intellegence" and make up random facts of threats. Like the threats against the west is likely. Where are the facts? Why are people blinded by this. How come I feel I'm the only one that sees this?

This bull**** is unbelievable, i'm surprised nobody pointed it out yet.

My question to you is,
If Obama and "multiple intellegence" say these terrorrists are a threat.
Do you believe without question. and if so tell me why. As in your post you clearly have displayed as such.

Obama change?:rolleyes: Change? What change? Can somebody please tell me what change Obama is aspiring to in pre election.

Do any of you really know why they are in Afghanistan.
Do any of you really know why they went into Iraq even.

wylo

Perhaps instead of just preaching the evilness of Obama, why not give some suggestions here of what should be done.

Dont get me wrong , any occupation of another country is unjustified but what has happened in the last 60 years , i.e. the creation of Israel, the invasion of Iraq, the Russians in Afghanistan, the threats to Iran, etc has all contributed to a resentment of the West.

Now combine this resentment with finding easy recruits from poor areas who have nowhere else to turn and are now offered to be part of something, something which will make them feel fulfilled and significant, where they are treated with respect, you now have yourself a network of gangs and terrorists. Just the same way a young boy would get involved in a drugs gang in a slum in the likes of Rio de janeiro.

Yes I agree the West created the problem, but simply shipping out and leaving them to their own devices is a dangerous way of doing things at the moment. Obama is already pulling out of Iraq , he never agreed with that war in the first place. And before you give out about the time delay on that, an instant departure would leave that country in absolute chaos. As for his actions in Afghanistan, do you not think that maybe he is attempting a repeat of the troop surge in Iraq? This very surge could be a means to ending this war as soon as possible.

The West will never win that war, its not possible to occupy a country against the will of the people and not be at war, however it is possible to stabilize it to a point where you can declare victory and slowly move out.

mysterious

wylo wrote: »

Perhaps instead of just preaching the evilness of Obama, why not give some suggestions here of what should be done.

Learn how to be intellegent Adults, and that of course means learning from our mistakes. My suggestions are already clear. This use of force, is exactly the problem here. I never said avoid the problem. We have to become aware of what's causing this problem. We have done that so far on this thread, By admittiong our behaviour towards the east.

Obama and his wall street cronies, have not done that yet. Nor have they taken any responsiblity for what they have done in the past. Second point, they ae not telling the truth of what is the problem in Afghanistan. Thrid reason, they are doing the same mistake as previously with Iraq. INvading another country for all the wrong reasona and methods.

You have to remember, people live there, and people have lives. You may think it's logical to go in and get a few bad guys. But inreality thats not how it is. The war is going to cost thoudands of more lives. It is going to cost the west more hatred and venom towards them again.

This is simply stupid.:mad:

My suggestion is

• To everyone come to the fact that people live there, and yes they are people.
• Have some awareness and figure out what it means to be a human being.
• Look at history, has these wars worked? Gulf war, Iraq, Vietnam and other such puppet CIA government led countries? Have they been benifecial to the country
• Question are we to judge other nations?
• Question does war, really work?
• Question does war, win over respect and dipolomacy in determining a stable outcome?

My suggestion we need to start learning and become more aware of the actual damage we are doing, rather than living in a fantasy thinking by going to war is going to solve the world's problems.

The reason they are in Afghanistan is because of the money.

When you realise that, you realse just how inhuman people in power are. It has never changed since the beginning of civilazation. We can change, if we become more aware. We can take our power back and not have to fight each other.

Dont get me wrong , any occupation of another country is unjustified but what has happened in the last 60 years , i.e. the creation of Israel, the invasion of Iraq, the Russians in Afghanistan, the threats to Iran, etc has all contributed to a resentment of the West.

So when are we going to stop doing that, rather than forcing our will upoin them, thinking that we can fix it afterwoulds

Now combine this resentment with finding easy recruits from poor areas who have nowhere else to turn and are now offered to be part of something, something which will make them feel fulfilled and significant, where they are treated with respect, you now have yourself a network of gangs and terrorists. Just the same way a young boy would get involved in a drugs gang in a slum in the likes of Rio de janeiro.

Balony.
You need to start figuring out again, that these are people just like you and I. I'm going to have to make this point clear to you again. They are people I.e human beings. Just like you.

They will not resort to terrorism.
If you give them freedom and respect. it's simple as that.

If you put your force of will, disrespect them and opress them. You create "terrorists" Now I hate the word terrorists.It's one of the most vague words in the English dictionary to be quite honest. What we are talking aobut are freedom fighters. They are people who resort to violence due to force of will against there freedom. They demand respect. We the west keep doing the wrong thing and disrespecting these as people.

So yes you do have terrorists.

This is proper psycology not the fantasy your were talking about.:rolleyes:

Yes I agree the West created the problem, but simply shipping out and leaving them to their own devices is a dangerous way of doing things at the moment.

Shipping out is not what they have to do. What they need to do is start respecting the rules of humanity. You treat others how you want to be treated.

Obama is already pulling out of Iraq , he never agreed with that war in the first place. And before you give out about the time delay on that, an instant departure would leave that country in absolute chaos. As for his actions in Afghanistan, do you not think that maybe he is attempting a repeat of the troop surge in Iraq? This very surge could be a means to ending this war as soon as possible.

You've said this a few times. i'm going to have to pont this out.
Obama doesn' make the decisions. he is carrying out the decisions that were made. That is the difference. Obama represent the coporations and businesses of America's interest there and abroad. He is told to follow the money and make sure he makes the money.;)

Yes thats' simply it. No president were any different before him.

[quote[
The West will never win that war, its not possible to occupy a country against the will of the people and not be at war, however it is possible to stabilize it to a point where you can declare victory and slowly move out.[/quote]

You don't win wars:rolleyes:


Noooooooooo. Tell me how this exactly works.
They say this crap with the "sucess with Iraq" If I ever hear anyone say that terminology in my preset I will insult them down to a degradeful being. That it is a complete infraction and false.

You don't win victory killing civilians, occupying another soveriegn nation and reducing yourself to killing of oher people. Genocide is the result.

If you, as you just stated

stabilize it to a point where can declare victory and slowly move out

Now you go and tell that to the familes and mother who lost their children the Iraq war. See how "stable they seem to be. See how stable Iraq is with a million dead and the surviving left to deal with the bloodshed for the rest of their lives. So no your qute wrong with that idotic assumption.

How come I only spot reality here?:rolleyes:

War is not stablizing. That is farce.

wylo

mysterious wrote: »

You have to remember, people live there, and people have lives. You may think it's logical to go in and get a few bad guys. But inreality thats not how it is. The war is going to cost thoudands of more lives. It is going to cost the west more hatred and venom towards them again.

This is simply stupid.:mad:

My suggestion is

• To everyone come to the fact that people live there, and yes they are people.
• Have some awareness and figure out what it means to be a human being.
• Look at history, has these wars worked? Gulf war, Iraq, Vietnam and other such puppet CIA government led countries? Have they been benifecial to the country
• Question are we to judge other nations?
• Question does war, really work?
• Question does war, win over respect and dipolomacy in determining a stable outcome?

Mysterious, I agree with you and I am against these wars. And I do agree that every person has a right to live in freedom and in peace in their own country. And I do agree that these are illegal wars.
I am merely giving arguments to see what kind of other suggestions you have, and while your suggestions here are all great, theres not one here that is actually an action of any sort.

Ok, you are president of the U.S., you have been given the briefings and all info that can be gotten on the Al-Qaeda. The threat is there , even though that threat has stemmed originally because of the West, its still there. What do you do? What is your practical solution???? What action do you take NOW?

My only problem with your arguement is that you are denying the fact that the threat is there. There are people out there who do hate the West, and as I said its justified hatred, but what do you ? Ignore these people and theyll go away?

mysterious

wylo wrote: »

Mysterious, I agree with you and I am against these wars. And I do agree that every person has a right to live in freedom and in peace in their own country. And I do agree that these are illegal wars.

So if you do agree with me, and you do see the problem here.

Why do we just keep allowing this over our heads.
Fooling someone once, too bad, fooling us twice? What are they taking humanity for?

I am merely giving arguments to see what kind of other suggestions you have, and while your suggestions here are all great, theres not one here that is actually an action of any sort.

I hear your stance. Well the truth is you don't have to take action. You just need to be aware and respond when needed too. You only need to take action, once your aware of what is the right thing to do.

The right thing to do is not to react. That is what the west is stil doing.
This is why I made my point specifc in actually takeing a step back for a moment and reflect on what we are actually doing in this situation before we kneejerk into countries and allow our leaders to dictate our reality. The elites announce the plan, we act on their goals.

I'm saying simply we act on our own awarness and act on our plans. Be aware of what they are doing. That is my first point and was in the previous post. It's up to you what kind of action you want to create in this case. I really don't think we need to take action against these countries. If thats what your implying. We need to start to come to the realisation they are other ways of dealing with this conflict and sorting it. Action, can be respecting, showing patience. reaching out, Protesting against these elites wars. Representing humanity, speaking out. Learning about the past and taking action of oneself by not repeating the past mistakes.

Ok, you are president of the U.S., you have been given the briefings and all info that can be gotten on the Al-Qaeda. The threat is there , even though that threat has stemmed originally because of the West, its still there. What do you do? What is your practical solution???? What action do you take NOW?

You do know, this "threat" is hearsay. Can you give me the proof. I'm not demanding for you personally to give me proof. But what I am saying, is that are we just supposed to assume that everything the US say as fact. Look at the lies and wars they got us into in the last 8 years. Who is the threat here?

I don't buy what politicians say, and neither should you. How many wars does it take for me and you to just "get it yet"

There are not a threat out to get us. That is the words they use, to incite the fear game all over again. You should be at least aware of this now.

Afghanistan is a country with inhabitants and are people want to live in freedom. That is what every human being wants regardless of race, gender, sex and upbringing, rich or poor backgroud or whatever. We keep falling for this divide issue, of the east and west. We are normal and they are extremists. Yet it's us carrying out the majority of extreme behaviour in reality. This is the point us we, keep still forgetting. We are too busy with the finger pointing. I can't accept this.

We are so brainwashed it's not even funny anymore.:rolleyes: We really are and it's freigthening. They are people like us. The 9/11 attacks was a false flag U.S elites to bring about chaos into the world, as we are now well cot into.
Seriously I have met so many muslims and they really don't see this desire to attack the west. They are like us, they want to get on with thier lives. It somehow seems impossible for them to do so, given the amount of nonsense they get and abuse they get from the west. One look at the biased western media will tell you that. They are extremists in every religion and nation. I don't get this attacking one nation for it. There is no justification. Infact there is no justification for any war. War doesn't solve the problem. Yet here we are, 2009. We still haven't learned.

Sometimes, I say to the universe. just press the red button and end our race. People have lost so much touch with themselves, others and the environment around them to the point, We attract chaos, we desire chaos, we follow chaos and we stay in this pattern.

All because we don't know how to be simply be aware of what we are doing and creating ourselves. We are too busy with what other people are doing. We are to busy pointing out other people's problems and not our own. We are to busy looking to see how well other people are doing and not how we are. We are to busy fixing other peoples problems and avoiding our own troubles. We are to busy wanting more and not giving. This is the reason the US is in Afghanistan.

To take all the mineral wealth out of it. To take control of it like Iraq. Plant another puppet goverment there. Keeping Chinese and RUssians out. Creating terrorists there, so they can have a arms trade going. It's always about the money. If there is a war going, it's surely about the money.

My only problem with your arguement is that you are denying the fact that the threat is there. There are people out there who do hate the West, and as I said its justified hatred, but what do you ? Ignore these people and theyll go away?

Is America not a threat?
Is America invading another country not a threat?
Is America right to go and invade another country?


My point is, the "threat" is just another excuse for the western Elites to get us into another war for the same corrupt reasons as before. This kind of cat and mouse game running after the threat. Is not advanced human intellegence. It's animlistic and quite retarded IMO. Dog eat dog attitude.

Can you tell me how this is going to stablilize the region.

Another point
When Obama say's Penny FAN kenty pun yung, is a threat Live from Washington?

You believe him?

I'm not purposely denying there is a threat. I just can hold two concepts and see America as a threat. I can see America being the biggest threat. As they are invading yet again.

Does if ever occur to your mind, that this war, is just another arseway attempt of defeating these so called "terrorists". It just creates terrorists. It further exasperates the problem in a problem region. BTW the Obama administration have gave no clear evidence that there is a threat. They spew the same lies as The Bush Admin. The Nazis are on the rise;) Rep and dem once in office are the same thing. The elites pick the American president to run the country and follow the money. To keep the Superpower America is still ticking. That is precisely what an American president does. They keep runnings of the cooporate America;)

So Can you tell me this threat? I would like to see these mulitple intellegence reports (CIA reports now)

CIA are conmen -criminals they appear to the public harmless, but they have a nasty history in their closets.

mysterious

To prove that Obama is a puppet:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8uKvDf3XdQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss1X2BtiX3w&feature=related

Also google the trans Afghan oil pipeline. Should actually inform the things the leaders/media never tell you.

But then again alot of you believe in the bull**** of these "threats" You should study the history of terrorism. US of A create them. They purposely create them so they can co pilot these wars. Use them to their own game. Use these as a distraction of what they are really doing invading these countries.

But hey, you all think you know.:rolleyes:

You now have two choices. stay asleep or wake up.

diverdriver

Some people like to make their dull world more interesting.:rolleyes::D:p

mysterious

diverdriver wrote: »

Some people like to make their dull world more interesting.:rolleyes::D:p

Until they invade your home and your country, I seriously doubt you would be smiling in the condenseding way that you are as above:rolleyes:


It is not a laughing matter, it's a serious matter and another dispicable act . Where another war, for the same profitearal reasons. The same bull**** from the last war. The same bull****ting excuses. The same repetition speeches. The same crap as before.

My point of thread.
This millitary and war tactics, means what? What does it really mean for Afghanistan. Why do we not see the agenda. Why do we fall for the lies. Why do we accept genocide. Why do we continue to accept this and believe everything these leaders say and do?

Cus it's us that has to go fight these wars.

Obama bull****s more than a cow getting over constipation. The frieghtening part of his speech alot of is scripted.

Fratton Fred

Why would anyone want to build a pipeline accross Afghanistan?

concussion

mysterious wrote: »

Obama bull****s more than a cow getting over constipation.

Wouldn't a cow $hit cow$hit?

mysterious

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why would anyone want to build a pipeline accross Afghanistan?

Why would you build anything, to set a home, or place. Maybe to build a bridge to get from one place to another(strange I know) Maybe to run oil pipelines from one region to another.


And get to the Port in Pakistan. So the Yanks can kiss the oil to US OF A.

Do some research. It's how they get oil shipped from all these countries to the coast so oil can be transported around the world. How else do you think they are going to oil out to sea. Russia is in the same boots, they need to build piplelines all over the country because they are not connected to the coast trade routes. Unless you want to get the oil transported out of the Artic sea, even then you'd have to pump oil to there.

Oh my god at the question.....

mysterious

concussion wrote: »

Wouldn't a cow $hit cow$hit?

Since you asked the question, go out and find out.

Fratton Fred

mysterious wrote: »

Why would you build anything, to set a home, or place. Maybe to build a bridge to get from one place to another(strange I know) Maybe to run oil pipelines from one region to another.


And get to the Port in Pakistan. So the Yanks can kiss the oil to US OF A.

Do some research. It's how they get oil shipped from all these countries to the coast so oil can be transported around the world. How else do you think they are going to oil out to sea. Russia is in the same boots, they need to build piplelines all over the country because they are not connected to the coast trade routes. Unless you want to get the oil transported out of the Artic sea, even then you'd have to pump oil to there.

Oh my god at the question.....

what oil?? have you heard of the BTC pipeline? Afghanistan isn't on the coast, why put an oil pipeline there when it has no oil or gas (actually it does, but it is very low grade gas not economically extracted and probably never will be) and neither do any of its neighbours, other than the ones already connected to the BTC that goes to Turkey.

You are looking for an excuse to link this to oil and there isn't one.

May i make a suggestion that might be right up your street.

You like youtube and you seem to think talking to these guys is better than fighting them.

Why not nip over there and have a pally one to one chat with them. you may find your beheading makes its way on to youtube.

mysterious

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what oil?? have you heard of the BTC pipeline? Afghanistan isn't on the coast, why put an oil pipeline there when it has no oil or gas (actually it does, but it is very low grade gas not economically extracted and probably never will be) and neither do any of its neighbours, other than the ones already connected to the BTC that goes to Turkey.

Thats why Pakistan was mentioned. Pakistan is involved in this war on terror the great fad word should be on the mcdonalds menu since its so widly used now. Pakistan has a coast so heres the formula here in front of you. Coastline, afghanistan in view and Casprian sea and surrounding reserves where the pipelines are going.

I never once said it has oil. Go up and read my post again it seems you dont read carefully in the slightest. Afghanistan does have gas and more than enough to steal. You should look up the reasons why America goes to war. It might OPEN YOUR MIND. It aint after nilly dilly or hassseeb arabia or the other terrorists in peny cudiam. You can keep singing, dancing and saying that they are in Afghanistan to fight terrorism, but they dont give a sh"te. There are doing this war for the MONEY. It's a fact.
http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:1_uNxx1pzd8J:www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/december01_index.php%3Fl%3D3+afghanistan+gas+reserves&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

It's cached for buzz words such as gas.

Research trans oil/gas afghan pipeline. I see you know little to nothing about it. Gee am I surprised. Not really.

You are looking for an excuse to link this to oil and there isn't one.

I'm not you just need to read and think before you post in a dicussion like this

May i make a suggestion that might be right up your street.

You like youtube and you seem to think talking to these guys is better than fighting them.

Talking to whom?

Why not nip over there and have a pally one to one chat with them. you may find your beheading makes its way on to youtube.

And do what exactly.


Oh I posted links but the moderator on this forum thought that building ol pipelines in Afghanistan is conspiracy theory. You will just have to research geo politics and look under ecnomic warfares. Of course everything our reality is what the elites say:rolleyes:

Cries for the lost and confused.

mysterious

Has anyone something to add about Obamas administration on this topic.

How do you think Obama's administration is different or indifferent to the previous Bush Admins events. How do you see things going in the near future. What is your opinion on this war gearing up. Do you think that it will work or create "harmony" or defeat "these fire breathing terrorists"

I want to hear peoples views on this,

Thanks.:)

mysterious

Another note,

The Obamaisms have now officially been created. All the more and same of the old Bushisms.

Faking it.......I skipped my line, the secatary of defence is appleberry. CIA agent runs over to whisper in Obamas year. "its' appleblueberry. Obama totally "messed up".:rolleyes:


People laugh.... That result, was completed. These people who you worship are no fools. They trick you.

the leaders then smile, (I fooled one, twice and I'll do it again)


So Bush's wars, and Obama's wars are the same.:)

A Primal Nut

If you put your force of will, disrespect them and opress them. You create "terrorists" Now I hate the word terrorists.It's one of the most vague words in the English dictionary to be quite honest. What we are talking aobut are freedom fighters. They are people who resort to violence due to force of will against there freedom. They demand respect. We the west keep doing the wrong thing and disrespecting these as people.

Freedom fighters, eh? The Taliban in Afghanistan want to control every aspect of their populations lives especially women, I don't think I need to go into detail about that. But its clear their objectives are the opposite of freedom.

In Iraq freedom fighting has meant walking into a mosque and killing as many innocents as possible. This is counter productive - if there were no terrorists it would be easier for America to leave and hand over power. They clearly don't want to stay there forever. These terrorists are too stupid to see this.

As for Al-Qaeda, their leader wants all Infidels dead at any cost. He said this many times. He also want to restrict peoples freedom in the same way as the Taliban. They are also too stupid to see that there were anti-war marches all over the west and the vast majority didn't support Bush and Blair. They are using the Iraq war as an excuse to spread their beliefs on everyone at any cost.

Palestine is more complicated; still don't agree with the targeting of innocent civilians, but at least it might achieve something.

A Primal Nut

mysterious wrote: »

Another note,

The Obamaisms have now officially been created. All the more and same of the old Bushisms.

Faking it.......I skipped my line, the secatary of defence is appleberry. CIA agent runs over to whisper in Obamas year. "its' appleblueberry. Obama totally "messed up".:rolleyes:


People laugh.... That result, was completed. These people who you worship are no fools. They trick you.

the leaders then smile, (I fooled one, twice and I'll do it again)


So Bush's wars, and Obama's wars are the same.:)

This is the worst logic I've ever seen. Some guy made a mistake while making a speech - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the wars.

A Primal Nut

mysterious wrote: »

Thats why Pakistan was mentioned. Pakistan is involved in this war on terror the great fad word should be on the mcdonalds menu since its so widly used now. Pakistan has a coast so heres the formula here in front of you. Coastline, afghanistan in view and Casprian sea and surrounding reserves where the pipelines are going.

I never once said it has oil. Go up and read my post again it seems you dont read carefully in the slightest. Afghanistan does have gas and more than enough to steal. You should look up the reasons why America goes to war. It might OPEN YOUR MIND. It aint after nilly dilly or hassseeb arabia or the other terrorists in peny cudiam. You can keep singing, dancing and saying that they are in Afghanistan to fight terrorism, but they dont give a sh"te. There are doing this war for the MONEY. It's a fact..

Its not a fact - there is no evidence for this.