Buying first gelding

Verbal_Kint

myself and a few others are thinking about buying a gelding in the december goff sales for about 5k.

its just for a bit of fun.

any advice would be appreciated or if you can direct me to any informational websites all the better.

Cantoris

It all depends what you're after really. For 5k, even in the current market, you might not get much. And if you put it in training it will cost from €25 to €40 a day, although again in the current climate you might get some deals out there. So that's somewhere between €10k and €15k a year just to train before the extras. I always think if you are paying that sort of cash annually to train a horse, you may as well spend a few extra bob trying to get a nicer model. €10k will certainly go a lot further this year than last year.

Or what about leasing a horse if you're up just for a bit of fun. Trainers will have loads of horses at the moment that they don't have owners for and may be willing to do a deal to pay training fees etc. In actual fact, you might be ballsy enough to ask a decent trainer to lease a decent horse and see what they say.

Or alternatively, club your money into a larger syndicate and benefit from the economies of scale. That's what I do with my syndicates. Each member would never be able to afford a horse for €25k but by bringing ten people together you can buy something a bit nicer. It's not a beauty contest of course so more monoey doesn't guarantee any more success but IMO it helps.

Plenty of options at the moment but €5k to buy might be a little low.

countesshouse

There are five of us that have a share in a filly and i am not trying to put you off but it is a hard game as an owner. We sent her to a great guy called PJ Coville in Rose Green to break her in and PJ's is excellent in all aspects of advice and where to go training with your horse etc.We did a little research with different trainers for prices before we took the training route,the smaller trainer is the best as far as we all are concerned (it is not just the price but your horse in been trained in a smaller yard and the small trainer will train and look after your interests.We went to a bigger trainer the first year and none of us were happy.The cost at the end of the month was huge.You do not know about the extra charges until the invoice arrives the end of the month (extra cost like transporting to race courses to be schooled,vets fees for shoes etc,special feed before a race)all these costs add up especially whilst you are waiting even for a run in a race.Trainers will enter the horse in a race and the fee for this is E60.00 which you will not be refunded if your horse does not get into the race.I am not trying to put you off the experience. Following your horses progress in training and racing is fantastic and an experience that we all still enjoy but keep in touch with your trainer even if it is a phone once a month,call and see the yard and see the progress your horse has made after 3 or 4 months. If there are a few of you involved nominate one speaker that understands racing and horses and can talk to the trainer or manager of the stables.If you are not happy tell the trainer,most trainers are very easy to talk too and will tell you if your horse is worth training for races. Has anyone in your group have experience with race horses before? If you need PJ's contact details just give me an email and i will send it on to you.

Cantoris

Some good advice there. PJ is a great lad. He rode Brave Inca to win his two bumpers and broke in Kimberlite King and Captain Bondi for us. My syndicates loved his easy way of going and his wife Grainne is a real asset to the team too. Acted as assistant trainer for Colm the first few times Brave Inca was to Cheltenham but training in his own right for the last few years. He better pay me some commission for all this when I see him at the sales in June.

On the €60 an entry. Generally people get stung with ballotting. You need to enter up a few times to get a run. However, if you declare and get ballotted out you should get some fees back. Not sure if it is all of the fees. Also, we don't get billed for "special feed" before a race. Generally they give them something after to help the recovery but not before.

It is true that the costs are littered with opporuntites to under estimate and I generally think that if you budget for €20-24k a year to include five or six runs, you should have some change but don't underestimate it.

countesshouse

Apologies Cantoris if some of my info wasn't correct. Are your horses out racing soon? If they are i will watch out for them and wish you and your group the best of luck for the season.

Cantoris

countesshouse wrote: »

Apologies Cantoris if some of my info wasn't correct. Are your horses out racing soon? If they are i will watch out for them and wish you and your group the best of luck for the season.

I wasn't saying any of your info was incorrect Countess. Sorry if it came across that way. Jut saying we don't get billed for "special feed" so you might query with your trainer and also there are loads of trainers that don't work the system of balloting correctly and cost their owners money.

Yeah Kimberlite King might run next week at Fairyhouse if the ground is soft enough. Raise The Beat, our latest recruit, is being aimed at the Land Rover. A real next year horse. Captain Bondi has been very disapointing. Shows loads at home and nothing on the track. Due out over the coming weeks too when we he avoids the ballot. Brave Inca is in great form but would want soft ground to run at Punchestown. More news at http://www.winningwaysracing.ie/Latest_News/Default.9.html if you're interested.

Hoping to add another one to the family this June. Just need a couple of more members if anyone is interested. Hobart, please don't ban me for that!!

countesshouse

Don't worry about it your reply did not come across wrong. I agree when you say that some trainers don't work out the system of the ballot.It has cost us before but not now.You definitely learn a lot about race horses when you have a share in one and you learn fast especially if it is costing more. I hope 'Kimberlite King' does well and i will be shouting him home for you. Pity about Captain Bondi race horses are funny animals.Don't give him on him though he may surprise you one of these days.I know it is easy for someone to tell you this especially when you are the person handing over the cash every month.
Lovely to hear 'Brave Inca' is well what a horse.:)

Thanks for the link took a look at the website and was impressed,maybe next year too many commitments this year. Good luck with your new arrival.

Cantoris

Yeah a few people who re interested last year are getting cold feet now and to be honest, I'm telling them to take a rain check on it for the moment. Last thing you need now is a four year commitment if you're windering about job security. The profile of members has changed a little too. Now the 40-60 year olds getting involved as horses are getting cheaper when in the past its been the younger generation with some disposable income. We'll keep the fingers crossed for the horses.

Itsdacraic

Verbal_Kint wrote: »

myself and a few others are thinking about buying a gelding in the december goff sales for about 5k.

its just for a bit of fun.

any advice would be appreciated or if you can direct me to any informational websites all the better.

If you go to the previous sales results on the Goffs and Tattersals websites it should give you a decent idea of whats going at what prices at the moment. I would agree with Cantoris that you might be better off to look at spending something around 10k and hopefully get something decent. It might start as being a bit of fun, but the fun disappears fairly quickly if your forking out €1,200 p/m and the horse is never coming never coming near getting a decent result. But on the flip side if you can get a horse that'll get you a few places and at least be in contention to win races, then you will have serious fun. Just make sure everyone is as committed as yourself and understands the costs involved. Set up seperate accounts and direct debits to pay for the training and turf club fees.

dundalkbhoy

what starts out as a bit of fun can turn sour as members fork out money all the time and no guarntee of return in your investment.
good luck if ye decide to go ahead with the plan.

countesshouse

Nothing is guaranteed with horse racing or any other sport.Anything could happen,your horse may work well at home and not on a race track,they may have an off day.Anyone that has a share in a race horse should know the cost before they invest and know that nothing is guaranteed.I understand fully what you are saying especially if owners with a share are forking out money every month and no returns into the pot after a run,but that is the gamble of owning a race horse.It can become frustrating at times and i am sure a lot of syndicates involved in owning a race horse would understand exactly what you are saying.:)

Cantoris

dundalkbhoy wrote: »

what starts out as a bit of fun can turn sour as members fork out money all the time and no guarntee of return in your investment.
good luck if ye decide to go ahead with the plan.

Whatever happens, make sure you get six months fees or a least three months in advance. The last thing you want is for your horse to have a few poor runs and someone to pull out leaving the rest of you to cover his share. If you get six months training fees in advance then at least you have time on your hands to either figure out if he is any good or find someone else to take their share. It happened in one of my syndicates. Purely financial constraints of one member but there was enough cash paid in advance over the previous eighteen months to cover a few months while I found someone to take his share.