Fire Certificate required for Small B&B

EngTech

Hi,

I don't know if this would be more suited to the Arch Tech forum but
can anyone twll me if a fire safety certificate is required for a small bed and breakfast?

It is near impossible to comply with TGDB in relation to guest buildings (pupose group 2(b)) for a small converted house-type bed and breakfast.

For instance it would require a maximum travel distance in one direction from a bedroom of 10m. In a standard two storey house, this is almost impossible without a second escape stairway.

Any achitects/engineers out there with experience of this?

muffler

sinnerboy is the man for this although I havent noticed him logged in for a couple of days.

Poor Uncle Tom

When you say small B&B, how many bedrooms? It is relevant.

EngTech

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

When you say small B&B, how many bedrooms? It is relevant.

5 bedrooms altogether including the clients bedroom.

TGDB makes allowances for the need for protected lobbies if there are escape windows:

1.3.8.1 Provision of protected lobbies and
corridors - In addition to stairways serving
basements (see 1.3.7), there are other situations
where an escape stairway requires the added
protection of a protected lobby or corridor. These
are:
(a) where the stairway is the only stairway serving a
building (or part of a building) which has three or
more storeys (see Appendix C, Diagram 36),
except in the case in a small guesthouse (see

1.3.8.2);

1.3.8.2 Small guesthouses (Purpose Group
2(b)) - An exception to the requirement for a
protected lobby or corridor to the stairway in a
building served by a single escape stairway may be
made in the case of a guesthouse (Purpose Group
2(b)), where the following conditions are met:
(i) the house does not contain a basement and
there are not more than three storeys (see
Diagram 36);
(ii) there are not more than four bedrooms on
any upper storey;
(iii) the stairway is a protected stairway (see
1.3.6.2);
(iv) a fire detection and alarm system is provided
in accordance with the requirements of par.
1.4.14; and
(v) all habitable rooms are provided with windows
which can be used for escape or rescue (see

1.5.6).

But there is no mention of allowing an increase of travel distances if there are escape windows.


It would make life alot easier if it could be classed as a dwelling house.

sydthebeat

EngTech wrote: »

Hi,

I don't know if this would be more suited to the Arch Tech forum but
can anyone twll me if a fire safety certificate is required for a small bed and breakfast?

It is near impossible to comply with TGDB in relation to guest buildings (pupose group 2(b)) for a small converted house-type bed and breakfast.

For instance it would require a maximum travel distance in one direction from a bedroom of 10m. In a standard two storey house, this is almost impossible without a second escape stairway.

Any achitects/engineers out there with experience of this?

you need to construct it so that the 10m is to a protected stairwell...

as far as i know, a FSC is required for guest houses...

see here: para 13.2
http://www.failteireland.ie/getdoc/19526688-5323-40f5-811b-9a4b444df860/GUEST-HOUSES-2003.aspx

13.2 Where building work has been carried out on the premises since June 1992 which effects a material alteration or material change of use of the premises (as more particularly set out in the Building Regulations) a local authority Fire Safety Certificate and an architect’s or engineer’s certificate of compliance with the fire safety provisions of the Building Regulations must be produced on initial application for registration hereunder, and, where a material alteration or material change of use occurs subsequently, must be returned with the renewal form due by the next renewal date following the material alteration or material change of use.


you need professional input to determine how to comply with th erelevant fire regulations

Poor Uncle Tom

A protected stairway is needed and the single direction maximum travel distance to that stairway is 10m.

BTW a FSC is required as there are more then 4 bedrooms.

As Syd said....

EngTech

sydthebeat wrote: »

you need to construct it so that the 10m is to a protected stairwell...

as far as i know, a FSC is required for guest houses...

see here: para 13.2
http://www.failteireland.ie/getdoc/19526688-5323-40f5-811b-9a4b444df860/GUEST-HOUSES-2003.aspx

13.2 Where building work has been carried out on the premises since June 1992 which effects a material alteration or material change of use of the premises (as more particularly set out in the Building Regulations) a local authority Fire Safety Certificate and an architect’s or engineer’s certificate of compliance with the fire safety provisions of the Building Regulations must be produced on initial application for registration hereunder, and, where a material alteration or material change of use occurs subsequently, must be returned with the renewal form due by the next renewal date following the material alteration or material change of use.


you need professional input to determine how to comply with th erelevant fire regulations

I was under the impression that in the case of a dwelling the travel distance was to the final exit of the house but it looks like you're right:

Storey exit -
A final exit, or a doorway opening
into a protected stairway, firefighting lobby or
external escape route, or a doorway in a
compartment wall that is common to two or more
buildings (a separating wall).
Travel distance (unless otherwise specified)
The actual distance to be travelled by a person from any
point within the floor area to the nearest storey exit,
having regard to the layout of walls, partitions and
fittings

If the stairway is protected, it will be easy to comply.

joebre

Google search brought up this old post.

Can somebody provide link/info is FSC is required where there are only four bedrooms in house, 3 guest and 1 client

sinnerboy

Part III Section 11 1(b) (iii) here.

I would argue that a single family home that becomes a guest house is a material alteration. At a minimum Section 1.5 of this document should be complied with.

Page 3 item 2 here also refers

And in case anyone is skeptical ....

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQV_MJwYQ3k

joebre

Thanks sinnerboy for the links.

Are you making any dirrerentiation between a B&B and a Guesthouse.
As you know, you can have up to 4 rooms in a B&B without having to get planning permission. I think one of the definitions of a Guesthouse is six rooms or more.
Could it be that you don;t require planning permission but might require a FSC?

sinnerboy

No.
Agreed.
Maybe (don't know).
Yes.

Look at the video....