Confused by carbon frames types

hynesie

I've been looking at getting a carbon frame bike around the £1000 mark and I'm at a complete loss as to what the various types of frames mean and how they rate. I want to buy a bike with a decent frame which will last me a good few years and slowly upgrade the components as necessary. At the moment I'm just doing sportives but would like to give racing a go next year.
The 3 bikes I'm looking at are:

• Boardman team carbon: Frame -> Ultralight unidirectional T700 carbon fibre monocoque
• Planet-X SL Pro Carbon Ultegra Build: Frame -> Can't find that much info on it
• Focus Cayo 105: Frame -> Focus Cayo Light UD Carbon Frame

Its very tough to find any reviews of the Boardman (other than the Cycling Plus one which is quoted everywhere) from people who seem to know what they're on about. Its mostly "I bought it and love it but then again its my first road bike" type reviews. The other thing is that the wheels get terrible feedback, so it's almost a given that a new set would have to be bought.

The Planet-X seems great, but slightly more expensive than the others and is really pushing my budget.

Focus Cayo 105, not as good a deal as last year, worse components than the others, but seems like a decent frame and has plenty of good reviews.

Overall I think I'm leaning towards the Boardman, but I'm concerned about the frame. What is T700? How does it compare to the T800 in the next Boardman up and the frames of the Cayo and Planet-X?
Would I better off going for a better known option like the Cayo or Planet-X?

Chips Lovell

Frame builders will use all sorts of designations and buzzwords to market their frames. Yes, there are different grades of carbon fibre, but no two manufacturers seem to employ the same grading system, in part because they'd probably use different suppliers. In general, higher end bikes will use stronger, more expensive carbon, which allows a lighter frame to be built because they don't need to use as much material in its construction.

What fibre is used is only part of the equation and how a bike performs depends even more on its design. Some frames can be really flexy because the manufacturers sacrificied stiffness for weight. Other's can be hugely stiff but a nightmare to ride on rough roads because they absorb none of the buzz.

If it were me, I'd focus less on what kind of carbon is used and more on user experience. Plenty of positive feedback on the Focus and Planet X here and you'll see both bikes being raced locally. Boardman is a more recent arrival to Ireland so you'll probalby hear less about them.

Oh, almost forgot:
Monocoque: A one piece molded frame design, as opposed to something say constructed with tubes and lugs
Unidirectional/UD: Refers to the finish of carbon and its a plain black finish, as opposed to the weave or marble effect other finishes have.

mr potato head

Sorry if i get a bit engineer geeky on you.

The T700 and T800 refer to the type of carbon fibers used... in reality it isn't the materials that will make the bike good or bad it's how they are used.

Ibis have quite a good materials section on their site, if you take a read through some of their pages it might help Ibis Bikes - Tech bit
They also have a Materials 101 section.

I know there is alot to trawl through there... Hope some of the other guys can give you views on the bikes themselves as that is a much better way to judge.
Hope this covers the materials question, even if it is a little overkill!!

Cheers
Keith

If anyone wants to read more
toray make the fibers and have a tech bit too!

hynesie

el tonto wrote: »

Frame builders will use all sorts of designations and buzzwords to market their frames. Yes, there are different grades of carbon fibre, but no two manufacturers seem to employ the same grading system, in part because they'd probably use different suppliers.

I'm a bit surprised by this. Initially I naively thought I'd be able to find a wikipedia article which would explain it for me, but I found very little info anywhere online.

el tonto wrote: »

If it were me, I'd focus less on what kind of carbon is used and more on user experience.

Thats a good point and results in the Boardman dropping down my list a bit.

el tonto wrote: »

Monocoque: A one piece molded frame design, as opposed to something say constructed with tubes and lugs
Unidirectional/UD: Refers to the finish of carbon and its a plain black finish, as opposed to the weave or marble effect other finishes have.

Perfect, thanks for that.

mr potato head wrote:

Sorry if i get a bit engineer geeky on you.

The more info the better (I'm an engineer of the electronic variety myself), I'll check out links when I get home.

Chips Lovell

One thing you might want to consider is warranty. I was surprised when a fellow boardsie with a Focus told me that their warranty is voided when the bike is used for competition. I thought that this was a bit much, given that it was racing bike and that the company advertises itself by sponsoring a major professional team (Milram).

The warranty on Planet X frames doesn't appear to have this restriction. They also have a crash replacement policy, whereby if you damage the frame in an accident they'll give up to half the price off on a new frame.

Having said that, frame failure is a pretty rare occurance, but that crash replacement policy is a nice extra.

Aquos76

I looked at all the above bikes too and in the end I went with the dolan hercules se and built it up using Ultegra SL

Finished Bike

blorg

I'm not sure Focus void the warranty if the bike was used racing, the specific wording is "The following are excluded from the warranty: Damage caused by use in competition, improper use and acts of nature" (emphasis mine.)

Crash replacement policies are common enough, both my Litespeed and my Van Nicholas have them, as did my Trek although they ultimately wouldn't entertain that one saying CRC were not an authorised Trek dealer. It's certainly a nice perk.

Chips Lovell

I'm going by what the Focus owner in question told me and their website:

Focus Bikes UK (Focus) reserve the right not to warranty bicycles, frames or components which in their opinion have been used for riding conditions outside the limits indicated for each model. These limits can be provided by www.wiggle.co.uk on written request for clarification of these categories and the intended use for individual models.

The warranty does not apply to damage or failure due to accident, abuse, collision impact (e.g. flared headtube) or neglect. The warranty excludes bicycles used for competition, speed or time trials, hire, reward or rental. Focus Bikes UK shall not be responsible for incidental or consequential damages.

hynesie

Aquos76 wrote: »

I looked at all the above bikes too and in the end I went with the dolan hercules se and built it up using Ultegra SL

Thats a lovely bike Aquos. I had a quick look at the Dolan Hercules before but I left it out of the list because I thought it was going to be too expensive by the time the groupset etc was bought. How much did the finished bike cost you if you don't mind me asking?

Aquos76

hynesie wrote: »

Thats a lovely bike Aquos. I had a quick look at the Dolan Hercules before but I left it out of the list because I thought it was going to be too expensive by the time the groupset etc was bought. How much did the finished bike cost you if you don't mind me asking?

Well really the dearest part was the frame €900 and groupset €550. The wheels complete with tires and tubes cost me €150 got them from a friend, handlebars came from another friend for free.