What spec machine for Music Production?

goodlad

Hey people,

Im currently looking at building a machine for my brother for his bday.
He has a home studio and does a lot of music production stuff! lol

I have no idea what all the crapola is but the estimated cost is about 20k of stuff so that might give you guys an idea.

The only thing letting him down is his pc, its constantly hanging on him and freezing caus it cant handle what he is doing.

Im looking at building a machine with shed load of ram and a high spec quad core. Just wondering is there is anything i should give preference to in building the machine?

He doesn't need a sound card, he has an external one worth over 1k.

EDIT: God damn, can someone fix the spelling in the thread title please? lol

Brien

after going to considerable trouble to build a pc last summer, i have realised that mac's are amazing at handling most audio software

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB420LL/A?mco=NDE4Mzg5OQ

thats a random Imac


(damn hindsight)

goodlad

Problem with that is a budget.
Im looking at spending about 800 euro.

He doesn't need a monitor, keyboard or mouse.

And he doesn't game at all so any on-board graphics is fine.

As far as budget goes, ordering the parts and building the pc for him will work out far better on cost.

teamdresch

Does he use pro tools?

teamdresch

If so, build this :

http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=165760

goodlad

teamdresch wrote: »

Does he use pro tools?

As far as i know he uses Cubase and Ableton Live.
He uses a lot of effects and plugins with em.

old gregg

if you pick up a copy of Sound on Sound mag available in most newsagents and take a look at the specs of the computers on offer in many advertisements it should give you a pretty good idea as to what the ready-built audio workstation vendors are doing. You'll just need to replicate the specs with your bought components. Easy, peasy I reckon.

BuddhaJoe

old gregg wrote: »

if you pick up a copy of Sound on Sound mag available in most newsagents and take a look at the specs of the computers on offer in many advertisements it should give you a pretty good idea as to what the ready-built audio workstation vendors are doing. You'll just need to replicate the specs with your bought components. Easy, peasy I reckon.

+1. Also check out the specs on these http://rainrecording.com/

goodlad

BuddhaJoe wrote: »

+1. Also check out the specs on these http://rainrecording.com/

Cool, thanks for the replys!
Its very much appreciated.

Im gonna have a poke around those links and then build machines on a few sites and see where is the best price.

He is running a really old 17inch crt monitor! Think i might surprise him with dual 22inch screens too! :D

goodlad

Im looking at this maybe.
All in it comes to €824


1x Alien Black Mid Tower Case - No PSU

1x Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.5GHz Socket 775 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache

1x ASUS P5QL PRO iP43 Socket 775 8 channel audio ATX Motherboard

1x Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 HyperX Memory

1x Hitachi 250GB Hard Drive SATA II 7200RPM 8MB Cache - OEM

1x Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition-SP3

1x OCZ Stealth XStream 600W PSU - SLI Ready ATX2.2 12cm Fan

2x LG W2242S 22" TFT Monitor

teamdresch

Do make sure the PC is as quiet as possible if he ever uses a microphone.

goodlad

Tis cool, he doesn't use a mic and doubt he ever will.
But thanks for pointing that out anyways, i wouldn't of thought of it

BuddhaJoe

The PSU seems overkill for a system which isnt going to be used as a gaming rig. You could get a cheaper one that would work just as well on that system and use the savings towards doubling that ram

goodlad

Not a bad idea
Im a gamer so tend to always want a solid psu, hehe!

Hmmm i just cant see 8GB of ram being used.
Well the plan is to check out of the programs he has can run on vista and if his external sound card has a vista driver.

I managed to get him out of his house tonight so i can sneak in and check what soundcard it is, hehe!

If all will work on vista im thinking about going vista 64-bit and 8gb or ram just because...... :rolleyes:

BuddhaJoe

goodlad wrote: »

Not a bad idea
Im a gamer so tend to always want a solid psu, hehe!

Hmmm i just cant see 8GB of ram being used.
Well the plan is to check out of the programs he has can run on vista and if his external sound card has a vista driver.

I managed to get him out of his house tonight so i can sneak in and check what soundcard it is, hehe!

If all will work on vista im thinking about going vista 64-bit and 8gb or ram just because...... :rolleyes:

You'd be suprised. A year ago I would have agreed but since then I have installed two virtual instruments which have a massive ram footprint (1.5 gigs and 3.0 gigs respectively). No harm in a bit of future proofing.

Edit: Also check the software he is running is 64bit compatible, there is still a lot of software that isnt 100%.

goodlad

Well future proofing is kind my aim.
Although what makes me a bit edgy about butting in 8GB of ram is the board.

That would fill all ram slots and from presious experience not a lot of boards like that.

Dublin_Gunner

ASUS P6T WS Professional €287
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=404942
Has SATA and SAS controllers onboard, supports up to 24GB ram

Core i7 920 €279
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=391447

Corsair Dominator 6GB 1333Mhz triple channel kit €86 (bargain)
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=393859

Radeon 4350 €35
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=434121

Samsung spinpoint 1TB SATA €87
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=343055

Silverstone TJ05 Case €79
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=343055

Fortron Epsilon 700W (80+) €96
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=343055

Comes to €870 and would be a killer rig for music production.

Bare in mind that this does not include a CD/DVD drive / burner - but these can be had for next to nothing, and there's too many to chose from.

I went for your future proof-ability, as this supports up to 24GB ram, all new 1366 pin CPU's, Core i7 is the fastest CPU your money can get. It also supports SAS drives should you need the extra speed, and has raid built in for both SAS and SATA.

4 cores should be plenty all for music production. If its a case he wants a server grade, 2xQuad core machine - his budget would want to triple. The motherboard alone would cost a fortune new.

Saying that, I have a Mac Pro, 2xQuad Xeon 2.8 from around August last year, and its Sh1t quick - and would be great for music production. However expandability is an issue with Macs - not so with PCs.

Anima

1Tb drives are dodgy enough, it would be better to get 2 smaller ones. Would be a good idea to get a RAID configuration going as well if possible.

Dublin_Gunner

Anima wrote: »

1Tb drives are dodgy enough, it would be better to get 2 smaller ones. Would be a good idea to get a RAID configuration going as well if possible.

And exactly what reason do you have for saying 1TB drives are dodgy??!

I personally would have went with smaller drives in RAID 5, but there's a budget to be adhered to here, so space per € was the concern, and I wouldn't recommend a RAID 0 on an onboard controller (if 2 drives were bought) - not for music production anyway. The arrays are prone to failure.

Anima

Well I've heard of some 1TB drives prematurely failing. Plus you should have a seperate drive for the OS and for everything else anyways for performance reasons. Also I don't like the idea of having all my eggs in one basket, especially with something as irreplaceable as recordings. Just a bad idea.

So those reasons I guess...

goodlad

Thanks for the info dublin_gunner.

I took a look over all the parts you list. Looks awesome man!
Though i have a feeling i need to squeeze in the dual monitors to the budget.

i know what your saying about the future proofing and i agree, i just feel that that spec is maybe a little too high because of the board. Im thinking a lesser cost board to take max 8GB ram might suit better into the budget.

I can also take down the processor a bit then to save a bit more cash without ending up with a **** processor.

I also need to fit in buying him an opersting system. It it was my own machine i would just "find" a cop of windows to use. I know my bro would have a mini freak out of i gave him a non- legal version

old gregg

re the dual monitors aspect of things ....

3 days ago I haggled my local Aldi manager down to €300 for 2 very nice 22" wide-screen monitors and I'm absolutely useless at haggling .. a better man would probably have gotten a few beers and a shoe shine thrown in to sweeten the deal.

right now I've gone from a 17" lappy screen to enough real estate to write music, play tetris and keep an eye on the war on terror all at the same time

in other words, check out your local aldi/lidl for display monitors cos they may be cheaper than komplett

goodlad

old gregg wrote: »

re the dual monitors aspect of things ....

3 days ago I haggled my local Aldi manager down to €300 for 2 very nice 22" wide-screen monitors and I'm absolutely useless at haggling .. a better man would probably have gotten a few beers and a shoe shine thrown in to sweeten the deal.

right now I've gone from a 17" lappy screen to enough real estate to write music, play tetris and keep an eye on the war on terror all at the same time

in other words, check out your local aldi/lidl for display monitors cos they may be cheaper than komplett

I see what your saying but im getting 2 for 250.
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143051

BumbleB

goodlad wrote: »

Im looking at this maybe.
All in it comes to €824


1x Alien Black Mid Tower Case - No PSU

1x Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.5GHz Socket 775 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache

1x ASUS P5QL PRO iP43 Socket 775 8 channel audio ATX Motherboard

1x Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 HyperX Memory

1x Hitachi 250GB Hard Drive SATA II 7200RPM 8MB Cache - OEM

1x Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition-SP3

1x OCZ Stealth XStream 600W PSU - SLI Ready ATX2.2 12cm Fan

2x LG W2242S 22" TFT Monitor

As far as I know , Windows xp will only recognise 2 gb ram so there's no point in installing more .

Make sure your asus has alot of usb ports and a f/w as well. Its absolutely essential to use 7200 rpm drives ,I used 4500 rpm for a long time and you really can se the difference in performance.The power supply is important as well , Underpowered Psu's can cause a myriad of problems and also not soo easy to diagnose.


I can recommend the Antec Performance P182 Miditower its expensive but netherless a good case and it's very easy to route the wires . Plus it's quiet .The fans are switchable too so when your recording vocals you can turn them nearly inaudible.

goodlad

Tis cool, the board has enough usb ports and 2 fire wire so thats sorted.
Ah it doesnt matter what OS you use for more than 2gb or ram, what matters is if the Operating system is 32-Bit or 64-Bit.

The psu is more than enough. Even with external things connected he wont pull even close to the full 600.

No need to worry about vocals with my bro, he wouldnt dream of it

old gregg

goodlad wrote: »

I see what your saying but im getting 2 for 250.
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143051

+ delivery charges outside UK + return carriage for repairs if anything goes wrong. you go girl

Dublin_Gunner

BumbleB wrote: »

As far as I know , Windows xp will only recognise 2 gb ram so there's no point in installing more .

Make sure your asus has alot of usb ports and a f/w as well. Its absolutely essential to use 7200 rpm drives ,I used 4500 rpm for a long time and you really can se the difference in performance.The power supply is important as well , Underpowered Psu's can cause a myriad of problems and also not soo easy to diagnose.


I can recommend the Antec Performance P182 Miditower its expensive but netherless a good case and it's very easy to route the wires . Plus it's quiet .The fans are switchable too so when your recording vocals you can turn them nearly inaudible.

1. XP recognise 2gb ram?? Absolute BS. It will recognise any amount of ram you have installed, but XP (32bit) can only address 4gb ram, due to the 32bit addressing limitation - and that includes things like video ram, so realistically, any more than 3 gigs RAM instaleld is a waste on a 32bit system.

However, I see absolutely NO reason for not using a 64 bit operating system. I've used XP Pro x64 since early 2005, and 64bit versions of Vista since beta's in 2005 also.

I find both OS's quicker than their 32 bit equivalents, and you can technically address up to 4TB ram.

Secondly, 7200rpm essential?? What year are you living in?? I haven't even seen a drive slower than 7200rpm for desktops in years.

Goodlad, while dual monitors might seem like a good idea, 1 decent widescreen should be more than capable. Of course, if you can get 2 decent monitors for a decent price, then go fr it - though you now must realise this is onboard video out of the equation, as you'll need 2xDVI's (preferably) for 2 monitors, and preferably 2 dual link connections, so discreet is a must - the card I listed should be more than capable.

Also, as to the BS about using different physical drives for OS and data - rubbish. 1 drive partitioned and you wont notice the difference (I always install OS to the first partition, and data/programs to the next, usually on 1 decent sized drive).

If you are really looking to squeeze as much as you can out of the budget, while still keeping future proof-ability, you may wish to focus on a Phenom II setup.

The boards and CPU's are a lot cheaper.

Try these for the CPU & board:
DFI Lanparty DK 790FXB M3H5 €158.99
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=446682
or
Gigabyte GA MA790XT UD4P €133
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=431468

Neither of these boards support SAS drives, but they should be perfectly fine, so no great loss. They both are DDR3 boards also, so the ram I'd previously listed would suit (and its a bargain).

CPU
Phenom X3 710 (triple core) 2.66Ghz €129
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=434414

That totals €645 with the gigabyte board, or €670.99 with the DFI, including everything else I'd specced on the first page.

So with the gigabyte board, you'd easily pick up a copy of Vista (no point investing in XP anymore)
Vista home premium x64 OEM €112
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=350141

Which now brings the total to €757, without monitor of course.

To be honest, if he wants to be realistic, he's gonna want to release a few more €€€ for the PC - he'll be using this for all of his recording & production, so is arguably the most important piece of kit next to a decent mixing desk.

I wouldn't bother with high end monitors, once they have a decent resolution they'd be fine.

Its ram and processing power he needs to concentrate on (especially if using lots of effect, and in real time).

If you want any more help, give me a shout - I do know what I'm talking about!

goodlad

Dublin_Gunner your super helpful
Its much appreciated.

Just poking through the options now, its looking good.
I think i will leave out the dual monitors and maybe get them for him at a later date.

Its me with the budget and not my bro, this is a surprise 30th bday present for him

I would of loved to put the monitors in but i will leave them out since its madness to slack on the machine itself for a screen upgrade which can wait.

Dublin_Gunner

goodlad wrote: »

Dublin_Gunner your super helpful
Its much appreciated.

Just poking through the options now, its looking good.
I think i will leave out the dual monitors and maybe get them for him at a later date.

Its me with the budget and not my bro, this is a surprise 30th bday present for him

I would of loved to put the monitors in but i will leave them out since its madness to slack on the machine itself for a screen upgrade which can wait.

No probs - I love everything computer related, I'm sort of a geek lol

And having delved into the world of bedroom recording studio's, I know a thing or two about that too.

Main thing to focus on is price/performance ratio - and really, once you know what to look for, there should be no need to skimp.

The Phenom II setup would be more than capable, and it can be upgraded to the Quad cores also - and since its AM3, there should be even more processors available for it for a couple of years to come.

Remember - I didn't include a CD/DVD burner, but you can pick a decent one up for like €30 even in the likes of Peats etc or order any old one when ordering the rest of the parts.

Best of luck with it, and post back with how it goes

goodlad

hehe, yeah im a bit of a geek myself.
I just haven't build a machine in about 2 years so lost touch with whats the new components.

Come November when im upgrading my gaming machine i will be doing some reading to get back in touch with things

I just changed some minor things, case, psu , nothing major and the price is coming in at €687.

I went for pretty much everything you linked but just changed the case and psu slightly and added in the dual layer dvd drive.

Its looking pretty nice now, and also leaves me room to add in 1 22inch screen and sort another at a later date.

Dublin_Gunner

goodlad wrote: »

hehe, yeah im a bit of a geek myself.
I just haven't build a machine in about 2 years so lost touch with whats the new components.

Come November when im upgrading my gaming machine i will be doing some reading to get back in touch with things

I just changed some minor things, case, psu , nothing major and the price is coming in at €687.

I went for pretty much everything you linked but just changed the case and psu slightly and added in the dual layer dvd drive.

Its looking pretty nice now, and also leaves me room to add in 1 22inch screen and sort another at a later date.

Cool, sounds good

I would urge that you dont skimp too much on the PSU though, its arguably the most important part of any PC, and the one I chose is about as low as I'd go for one (though 700W is a little overkill for the system, but it does leave room for plenty of upgrades later on).

goodlad

I didnt skimp too much on it, but since there is no mental graphics card in the machine i also thought the 700w was overkill :P

Gonne go for the 500w OCZ supply.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=343135

It should do the job nicely for now.

Anima

The most important thing when it comes to PSUs is the brand name. You need to pick someone reliable as well as the required PSU rating. They're not cheap really.

goodlad

Yep i agree.
Im my own gaming machine i only use corsair power supplys.

But in the machine im building for my bro i dont mind using an OCZ psu, still a good name and not as expensive as the corsair.

BumbleB

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

1. XP recognise 2gb ram?? Absolute BS. It will recognise any amount of ram you have installed, but XP (32bit) can only address 4gb ram, due to the 32bit addressing limitation - and that includes things like video ram, so realistically, any more than 3 gigs RAM instaleld is a waste on a 32bit system.

However, I see absolutely NO reason for not using a 64 bit operating system. I've used XP Pro x64 since early 2005, and 64bit versions of Vista since beta's in 2005 also.

I find both OS's quicker than their 32 bit equivalents, and you can technically address up to 4TB ram.

Secondly, 7200rpm essential?? What year are you living in?? I haven't even seen a drive slower than 7200rpm for desktops in years.

Goodlad, while dual monitors might seem like a good idea, 1 decent widescreen should be more than capable. Of course, if you can get 2 decent monitors for a decent price, then go fr it - though you now must realise this is onboard video out of the equation, as you'll need 2xDVI's (preferably) for 2 monitors, and preferably 2 dual link connections, so discreet is a must - the card I listed should be more than capable.

Also, as to the BS about using different physical drives for OS and data - rubbish. 1 drive partitioned and you wont notice the difference (I always install OS to the first partition, and data/programs to the next, usually on 1 decent sized drive).

If you are really looking to squeeze as much as you can out of the budget, while still keeping future proof-ability, you may wish to focus on a Phenom II setup.

The boards and CPU's are a lot cheaper.

Try these for the CPU & board:
DFI Lanparty DK 790FXB M3H5 €158.99
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=446682
or
Gigabyte GA MA790XT UD4P €133
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=431468

Neither of these boards support SAS drives, but they should be perfectly fine, so no great loss. They both are DDR3 boards also, so the ram I'd previously listed would suit (and its a bargain).

CPU
Phenom X3 710 (triple core) 2.66Ghz €129
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=434414

That totals €645 with the gigabyte board, or €670.99 with the DFI, including everything else I'd specced on the first page.

So with the gigabyte board, you'd easily pick up a copy of Vista (no point investing in XP anymore)
Vista home premium x64 OEM €112
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=350141

Which now brings the total to €757, without monitor of course.

To be honest, if he wants to be realistic, he's gonna want to release a few more €€€ for the PC - he'll be using this for all of his recording & production, so is arguably the most important piece of kit next to a decent mixing desk.

I wouldn't bother with high end monitors, once they have a decent resolution they'd be fine.

Its ram and processing power he needs to concentrate on (especially if using lots of effect, and in real time).

If you want any more help, give me a shout - I do know what I'm talking about!

What part of "as far as I know "do you not understand ?. I'm not a complete and utter computer nerd so i don't know everything..


Also you can do what you want partitioning drives but the disk with the operating system is much more prone to hard disk failure .If you were to have to have a crash you would have to recover all your music files etc.It's a very expensive process and I've been down that road ,whereas if you have your audio projects on a seperate disk all you have to do is to install a new drive format and load Windows and your original audio programs and youre ready to go .

Anima

Also, as to the BS about using different physical drives for OS and data - rubbish. 1 drive partitioned and you wont notice the difference (I always install OS to the first partition, and data/programs to the next, usually on 1 decent sized drive).

:rolleyes:

I didn't say anything about performance. I said its a bad idea to have just one large harddrive seeing as they're prone to failing, especially the larger ones, and that it might be better to spread the data across multiple harddisks. I dunno how you can call that bull****. You sound like a bit of a know it all to be honest.