ticket touting

kingofthecastle

just curious as to how it is illegal to sell tickets at more then face value, yet its not illegal to sell any other item you own for more than you paid for it on ebay or at auction, if anyone can explain this to me and perhaps mention the relevant legislation id be gratefull

Robbo

Where did you get the idea that ticket touting is illegal? It's immoral, but there's nothing in statute to forbid it.

grumpytrousers

At 'best' it's a breach of the condition of sale; the bumph on the back of a ticket will normally say that the ticket can't be sold for higher than the face value, but the only party that could take action on such a breach is the ticket agency or the promoter. They don't actually care too much about that (although they'd rather be doing the secondary selling themselves - cf Springsteen TicketsNow controversy).

Certainly when you see touts outside a venue flogging tickets and the Gardai are doing nothing, it's for a good reason; it's a civil, not a criminal matter.

In the UK, they've made it illegal specifically to re-sell on football tickets, but I think that's due to keeping hooliganism at a minimum rather than any 'anti-gouging' agenda.

happyhappy

it is a breach of the casual trading act if in a public place but ticket touting isn't the purpose of the act.

lods

grumpytrousers wrote: »

At 'best' it's a breach of the condition of sale; the bumph on the back of a ticket will normally say that the ticket can't be sold for higher than the face value, but the only party that could take action on such a breach is the ticket agency or the promoter. They don't actually care too much about that (although they'd rather be doing the secondary selling themselves - cf Springsteen TicketsNow controversy).

Certainly when you see touts outside a venue flogging tickets and the Gardai are doing nothing, it's for a good reason; it's a civil, not a criminal matter.

In the UK, they've made it illegal specifically to re-sell on football tickets, but I think that's due to keeping hooliganism at a minimum rather than any 'anti-gouging' agenda.

A bit like ticket master charging 6.50 a ticket on top of the face value:rolleyes:

grumpytrousers

lods wrote: »

A bit like ticket master charging 6.50 a ticket on top of the face value:rolleyes:

No. It's not. But thanks for taking the fight to 'the man' on the Legal Discussion area; i'm sure TM are sh*tting themselves.

lods

grumpytrousers wrote: »

No. It's not. But thanks for taking the fight to 'the man' on the Legal Discussion area; i'm sure TM are sh*tting themselves.

ok it not , but nice to have a swipe at TM:)

Red Sleeping Beauty

lods wrote: »

A bit like ticket master charging 6.50 a ticket on top of the face value:rolleyes:

Only if you buy them on their website.

grumpytrousers wrote: »

At 'best' it's a breach of the condition of sale; the bumph on the back of a ticket will normally say that the ticket can't be sold for higher than the face value, but the only party that could take action on such a breach is the ticket agency or the promoter. They don't actually care too much about that (although they'd rather be doing the secondary selling themselves - cf Springsteen TicketsNow controversy).

Certainly when you see touts outside a venue flogging tickets and the Gardai are doing nothing, it's for a good reason; it's a civil, not a criminal matter.

In the UK, they've made it illegal specifically to re-sell on football tickets, but I think that's due to keeping hooliganism at a minimum rather than any 'anti-gouging' agenda.

Good info there

If Ticketmaster wanted to rid the world (or at least Ireland where've they've practically got a monopoly) of touting it probably could - print names on tickets and then only admit that person, pursue anyone selling tickets on for profit etc. - but of course they won't . Shame.

Btw, shouldn't them ticket touts outside gigs flogging tickets in front of Guards have a "casual trading license" or something ? Shame the Guards don't/can't do something about them too.

lods

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Only if you buy them on their website.



Good info there

If Ticketmaster wanted to rid the world (or at least Ireland where've they've practically got a monopoly) of touting it probably could - print names on tickets and then only admit that person, pursue anyone selling tickets on for profit etc. - but of course they won't . Shame.

Btw, shouldn't them ticket touts outside gigs flogging tickets in front of Guards have a "casual trading license" or something ? Shame the Guards don't/can't do something about them too.

The City Council are supposed to enforce the casual trading & they don't. I don't think even they can give a casual trading licence for touting, although nothing would surprise me with them:rolleyes:. Bizarre the TM only charge the 6.50 on internet sales. Most people give you a discount if you book online.

grumpytrousers

Alan Rouge wrote: »

If Ticketmaster wanted to rid the world (or at least Ireland where've they've practically got a monopoly) of touting it probably could - print names on tickets and then only admit that person, pursue anyone selling tickets on for profit etc. - but of course they won't . Shame.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that ticketmaster set prices; sure, they fleece us on admin charges, service charges, and so on, but the vast bulk of the money you pay is sanctioned by the promoter, and he takes his cue from the artist. Most bands wouldn't like you to think that, but it's the case.

Tom Waits is a case in point. He's vehemently anti touting and reckons his fans are too. Thus when he played in the Phoenix Park last year, there were massive anti-tout procedures, you had to produce ID etc, and yet still Ticketmaster sold the tickets.

Obviously somebody paid for this - the punters, but Waits believes that it's worth it, and that his genuine fans understand, which I'd think they do.

I referred to TicketsNow above. The story on that, for the unitiated, was that when tickets for Bruce Springsteen went on sale for the current tour in the States at 9am in the morning, fans found that they couldn't purchase 'face value' tickets from the Ticketmaster server. It was probably overloaded, and what TM does in that situation is that it refers users to its sister (secondary market - 'reselling'/'touting') site TicketsNow where, AT NINE IN THE MORNING OF SALE tickets were miraculously already being 'resold' at far in excess of their face value.

Bruce went apopleptic and it was stopped. What it demonstrated was that, of course, in 99% of cases, acts are perfectly happy for this to happen, and that 'by default' they actually SANCTION a set quota of their own tickets to their own gigs to be sold on the secondary market, excess to face value, and, naturally, trousering the difference.

more here.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672740386088613.html

summary - you can berate TM all you want. Hell i do it myself, but they're not the only sharks in the pool...

Red Sleeping Beauty

Nine Inch Nails reserves 10% of it's tickets so that they/him can sell them through the website. Names are printed on the tickets and you've a seperate entrance and have to produce ID.

So I do agree that it's possible for the "artist" to take some control over the control and pricing of tickets.

Leonard Cohen on the other hand is charging €125

grumpytrousers

yup. i'm not that familiar with their music, but trent reznor did a brilliant piece on it recently at www.nin.com. No doubt you know the story yourself...but his point was that they have to go thru TM, there's no other way really, but that this new development really hacks him off!