Science or Pure Maths?

Heggy

Still debating it, I was firmly for Science, well actually I was thinking of the Advanced Materials course, but I may just go for the general one, but I've reached a middle ground and don't know what way to go. Just wondering if I could get some thoughts from people. Thanks!

Podge_irl

Its an interesting decision, pure maths and advanced materials are essentially nothing alike. The best advice I could give would be to try theoretical physics as it gives you a good middle ground. You will cover most of the pure maths courses in first year (and can do them all if you so choose) as well as the physics courses from the science option. You are free to change into maths until the start of third year or into physics until the end of third year. For the advanced materials option you will need to catch up on some chemistry but you should be able to change into it until second year I imagine.

ApeXaviour

Podge_irl wrote: »

For the advanced materials option you will need to catch up on some chemistry but you should be able to change into it until second year I imagine.

I'm not sure you can. Chemistry isn't really something you can just pick up (unlike geology). I'd say they'd expect you to have passed 1st year in order to be able to take it in 2nd.

I'd agree with podge though in that they're nothing alike. And if you were looking for a good inbetween, TP would be the way to go. For the first two years PCAM is exactly the same as science (if the sci students had chosen maths chem and physics as their subjects), and there is room to jump between degrees in third year. I had a friend who went from PCAM to physics (since you specialise in 3rd year), and a friend who went from Science to PCAM.

HoboJesus

Other start of 3rd year switches I've seen are TP to Astrophysics and TP to maths. Although, as mentioned above, if you start out with TP, you very likely can only switch to maths or the physics specialties (physics, astrophysics, computational physics) and not chemistry/biology or PCAM, at least not as late as 3rd year.

Podge_irl

ApeXaviour wrote: »

I'm not sure you can. Chemistry isn't really something you can just pick up (unlike geology). I'd say they'd expect you to have passed 1st year in order to be able to take it in 2nd.

I don't really have any idea of how difficult first year chemistry is so I'll assume you're right. People can occasionally be convinced to let you transfer even if they ordinarily demand you have passed subjects in the previous year - though you would need to put forward a pretty convincing case.

Heggy

Thanks for the advice everyone. Theoretical Physics seems like a viable option. I'll not be completely devoid of Chemistry if I do decide to change as I'll have LC Chem, though I don't know how much of a real overlap there is.

The more I think about it, the more I see myself leaning away from the Pure Maths, I can't see myself enjoying some sort of actuarial work, though I hear some graduates have gone onto interesting things.

The thing is, I think I enjoy the Chemistry more than the Physics so I wouldn't really want to leave it out. I could go for the common entry Science, but PCAM just keeps sticking out for me. I would like to see myself in some sort of research job.

Podge_irl

Heggy wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I see myself leaning away from the Pure Maths, I can't see myself enjoying some sort of actuarial work, though I hear some graduates have gone onto interesting things.

The thing is, I think I enjoy the Chemistry more than the Physics so I wouldn't really want to leave it out. I could go for the common entry Science, but PCAM just keeps sticking out for me. I would like to see myself in some sort of research job.

Again actuarial work and pure maths have little to nothing in common. I would really advise that you look into what is involved in a pure maths degree, because it is a lot of abstract stuff that will only interest you if you are really keen on mathematics. Some people from maths go into actuarial work, but it is definitely a minority. Most would become involved in research or finance or computers etc. Can you transfer from Science to PCAM? If so then maybe that is an option. Unfortunately, from the information you've given, no course is going to give you a flavour of all the things you want to consider. There is zero chemistry in TP, there is essentially zero pure maths in Science.

pisslips

Looks like the guy wants to learn atomic/molecular physics and maybe electronic strucure and solid state.

Can you do theoretical physical chemistry and maybe some computer science with some maths upto groups and complex analysis. So 2nd/3rd year maths/compsci and then the rest is physical chemistry.

If you can find that somewhere, I'd say your set.

Gallardo

If your really interested in maths and physics I'd agree that tp is a great choice. It is heavily maths based and if you decide to change into physics or maths you will be well able for that. Although I think you would have to change from tp to maths at the start of 3rd year at the latest because thats when the tps and maths students drift apart and do different maths subjects. As for changing from tp to pcam you would be sorted for physics but im not sure about the chemistry side. I'm in second year tp now but don't intend to change course. So far the maths has been filled with theory and alot of very abstract material although its quite interesting after a while. At the start of first year it may seem like the maths is irrelevant to physics and is completely different to the leaving cert but near the end of first year or in second year you will see how relevant it actually is to the physical world. All of the maths you do in the first two years of tp gives you alot of the important theory which is important in physics. Linear algebra/geometry and mechanics are linked together alot and are especially important in physics so if you decide to change from tp after 2nd year you will pretty much have the required maths to be a physicist already

Heggy

Thanks for the replies guys. I really need to do some thinking.

I would really advise that you look into what is involved in a pure maths degree, because it is a lot of abstract stuff that will only interest you if you are really keen on mathematics

I do find some of the abstract stuff quite interesting, but as has been said, I should really do some research, it was just something that started running through my mind recently.

Unfortunately, from the information you've given, no course is going to give you a flavour of all the things you want to consider. There is zero chemistry in TP, there is essentially zero pure maths in Science.

I'm probably being a little bit greedy, so thanks for the help guys, I just need to figure out what I like, but also research the careers.

ApeXaviour

people can occasionally be convinced to let you transfer even if they ordinarily demand you have passed subjects in the previous year

Chemistry could be considered the core of the science course. In 2nd year science they split the Bio courses into Bio 1 and Bio 2. They absolutely will not let you choose Bio 1 unless you've sat 1st year chemistry. There is less chance they'd let you pick up 2nd year chem.
I know someone who transferred from PCAM to Medicinal chemistry in third year. He was allowed solely because he had studied chemistry for two years.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Can you transfer from Science to PCAM? If so then maybe that is an option.

You can, if you choose Maths, Chem and Physics as your three subjects in the freshman years. You can transfer the other direction too, into Natural Science degrees such as Chemistry, comp chem, comp phys, astrophysics, physics.
Here is the table of pre-requisites

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is zero chemistry in TP, there is essentially zero pure maths in Science.

This is true, as pure maths is maths pursued for motivations entirely other than application. But you still study advanced calculus, fourier series, linear algebra, differential equations, mechanics etc, and are left with a decent skillset to be a slick physicist/chemist. I recall some rather messy integral calculus in a 2nd year schol physics exam that many TPs had trouble getting out, but the science students had little trouble simply because they were much more practiced at these bread and butter calculations.

Heggy wrote: »

The thing is, I think I enjoy the Chemistry more than the Physics so I wouldn't really want to leave it out. I could go for the common entry Science, but PCAM just keeps sticking out for me. I would like to see myself in some sort of research job.

PCAM is a great degree. It really doesn't matter if you choose that or science with MCP (maths chem phys) as your cao course as they are the same the same for the first two years. I did Science (MCP) and most of my friends were PCAM students.
If you think you will enjoy the abstract pure maths then TP is the way to go. Otherwise Science or PCAM. There is a lot of room in postgrad for change. My PhD could have been entered into by a TP, PCAM Physics (even astrophysics), Comp Phyics/Chem or Chemistry graduate. The lines can blur a lot in research since there can be a great deal of interdisciplinary crossover. There's a recently appointed full professor of physics in the school of physics who has a biochemistry and molecular biology background.
BTW I'm a physics graduate through science. I find the chemistry knowledge I gained in 1st and 2nd year invaluable to my research currently. To such an extent that I'm almost rueful I didn't choose PCAM in third year.