The Grants System (split from another thread)

Stupid_Private

The grant thing is something that bugged me during the whole Kenny Egan furore recently. There was talk of him losing his grant because he went awol and missed a fight. With the grants that are given for athletics is there any obligation for athletes to have to appear in certain races such as the nationals? It's a bit of a joke if they're not. I know most of them are based out of the country so it's awkward to get back for one race but if they're being given a grant I think they should all be competing here a few times a year.

thirtyfoot

Stupid_Private wrote: »

The grant thing is something that bugged me during the whole Kenny Egan furore recently. There was talk of him losing his grant because he went awol and missed a fight. With the grants that are given for athletics is there any obligation for athletes to have to appear in certain races such as the nationals? It's a bit of a joke if they're not. I know most of them are based out of the country so it's awkward to get back for one race but if they're being given a grant I think they should all be competing here a few times a year.

Its a very good point and it kind of bugs me too. The contract for the grant is with the Sports Council as opposed to the AAI. So the AAI can't really force athletes to do this or that or else they don't get their grant. If they could and it was part of the contract then you could have the following:

• All athletes must compete in the National Track outdoor and indoors (if fit)in their #1 event
• All athletes must be available for Europa Cup duty
• All athletes must be compete in National Cross (if they are a cross country athlete) or even National 10k
• All athletes must compete in a set number of domestic races, eg, AAI Games, Cork City, Morton Memorial, Raheny 5, Ballycotton etc

There was a discussion on Athletics Weekly last year about reserving a certain % of an athletes grant to ensure they competed in certain events and if needs be make it performance based. Could have merits and it maybec ould rejuvenate the domestic competition scene.

Stupid_Private

I don't think there's any difference to the grant given to the boxers and the grant to athletics. They both come from the sports council, yet somehow there was talk of them cancelling Egan's grant for his no show. It could have been all talk mind. Making the athlete's compete in non-national domestic races would be a bit much. They have to make their wedge somewhere. Racing in Ballycotton or Raheny isn't going to get them much exposure or revenue. Nationals, definitely... unless they're properly crocked - no sick tummies as excuses!

thirtyfoot

Stupid_Private wrote: »

Making the athlete's compete in non-national domestic races would be a bit much. They have to make their wedge somewhere. Racing in Ballycotton or Raheny isn't going to get them much exposure or revenue. Nationals, definitely... unless they're properly crocked - no sick tummies as excuses!

I don't know. Lets say you are Alistair Cragg and you were getting €20k.

€10k base grant.
€5k if you compete and win in either Nationals in Track or Cross Country.
€5 if you compete and win in either Ballycotton, National 10k on road, Morton Memorial.

Or at International carding level and Tom Chamney or David Campbell getting €12k.

€6k base grant
€3k if you compete and win Nationals
€3k if you compete and win AAI Games - this would promote AAI Games as a strong domestic comp or other similat event like Morton Memorial, Cork City etc.

Same at Development level where athletes get €5k each. Half is base grant, remainder based on competing at certain comps. Same at Junior but they are good as is as they compete at home regularly anyway.

Many of these athletes will be getting small amounts of money on the lower level Grand Prix circuit anyway and €2k or €3k for one race would be good value.

Not sure on the Kenny Egan thing but that may have been just paper talk.

Milesandmiles

I would imagine the Kenny Egan thing was just "paper" talk as Tingle said.

As regards carded athletes competing in nationals, this year the Sports Council sent a letter to the carded athletes reminding them of the importance of nationals. Although the grants are distributed by the ISC (probably just as well given the current shenannigans!) AAI have an input. In most cases it's pretty clear who has qualified for grants and at what level, but AAI does make reccommendations. Presumably if AAI asked ISC to make it a condition of the grant that the athlete attend nationals ISC would support this.

Home based athletes had to attend/talk at a regional squad session as a condition of receiving the grant last year. I'm not sure how strictly this was enforced.

As regards not paying them unless they won nationals, I'm not sure about this. Anybody can have an off day, if the athlete shows up and races an honest race that should be sufficient. We don't want a situation arising where athletes are not saving their best for the major championship of that year. Also if they didn't win would that suggest that the winner should get their 3k/5k?

jlang

And I'm sure it wouldn't happen but you wouldn't want pressure put on other competitors in the race to ensure the result goes the way that keeps the funding going.

thirtyfoot

Milesandmiles wrote: »

I would imagine the Kenny Egan thing was just "paper" talk as Tingle said.

As regards carded athletes competing in nationals, this year the Sports Council sent a letter to the carded athletes reminding them of the importance of nationals. Although the grants are distributed by the ISC (probably just as well given the current shenannigans!) AAI have an input. In most cases it's pretty clear who has qualified for grants and at what level, but AAI does make reccommendations. Presumably if AAI asked ISC to make it a condition of the grant that the athlete attend nationals ISC would support this.

Home based athletes had to attend/talk at a regional squad session as a condition of receiving the grant last year. I'm not sure how strictly this was enforced.

As regards not paying them unless they won nationals, I'm not sure about this. Anybody can have an off day, if the athlete shows up and races an honest race that should be sufficient. We don't want a situation arising where athletes are not saving their best for the major championship of that year. Also if they didn't win would that suggest that the winner should get their 3k/5k?

I suppose I would be looking at 2 things. Getting our top athletes competing at our top domestic events and also getting our moneys worth from them. Most of the top athletes won't bother with domestic events as there is no incentive and this as a result is to the detriment of the domestic sport and unfortunately there is no money to create an incentive. Locking in grants to competing in certain events will certainly make an incentive. Also, if you are going to a major champs and are concerned or worried you won't win a Nationals then there are some major issues with this athlete and their ability to raise their game. If you have an off day, thats sport. You need to ensure you are consistent enough that you don't have an off day. Its good practice and would get people out of the comfort zone.

As regards concerns about other athletes letting a grant chasing athlete win, raise the stakes. Lets say Chamney and Campbell are chasing the bonus for their grant to win Nationals, put it that if someone beats them they get the money. Same for Cragg. If he is getting his money for the 5000m, then he must race Nationals and if he does and doesn't win whoever wins gets the money.

These are just thoughts or ideas, not saying they'll work but we have to look at ways of stimulating our sport and making it more competitive and getting value for the money being invested.