DTT Signal from Three Rock

mearaman

Hi there,

I've just checked my DTT signal on a TM 6900 Combo and I'm getting nothing. It's been fine up to today albeit with the annoying testcards from time to time.

It was on Ch54. I then done a scan and Ch61 appeared the best in strength and quality but no channels coming through.
Analog is as good as it was ( Not very good---Spoilt with DTT i am )

Anyone else seeing similar?

Rick_

The opposite really. My signal was constantly breaking up and had problems, but today the signal seems rock solid and all 8 channels/stations were found quite quickly with a search.

EDIT - Oops, forgot to say I'm on Clermont, don't know what I was thinking when I posted here, I guess I misread the Three Rock part!

mearaman

Hi paddy,

What transmitter are you recieving off?

Is it Three Rock?

Rick_

Sorry, I must have been editing my post while you were replying. It's Clermont, not 3 Rock. Sorry for the confusion!

scath

Eh guys, yea mearaman, I get my single from 3Rock. Yea the signal went around lunchtime today. Before that TG4 was off on testcard for a few days. So picking up nothing now. :-( I wonder have they finished testing then at 3Rock as RTÉ NL do say when testing is finished they would switch the signal off until broadcasters were ready to launch DTT. Will we see nothing now until the Autumn from 3Rock? Obviously the other transmitters started later than 3Rock testing and have to continue testing til completion of their testing processes.

I guess its too early to tell. We have to see what happens in the coming days. I wonder would they have taken off the signal to put on some test digital RTÉ channels and Today FM & Newstalk etc? and add 3e? Usually they would do such in order to reset frequencies to accomodate more channels. But I guess we won't know that until we see what happens in the coming days and weeks. Its good at least the note on rtenl means we know the story now.

mearaman

Cheers Scath,

I hope they don't switch it off for too long. That would be a head wreck. I do think the must be doing something along the lines of an upgrade.

Maybe some of the lads from here will have some info later on.

fat-tony

Is Three Rock still off as of 17.20? I'm seeing signal from Greystones, which I understand to be a relay of Three Rock. All ok (TG4 on testcard) and EPG is continuing ok since they fixed the ONIT.

mearaman

yeah was off as of 17:25.

I'll be off to footy training soon but i'll update when i get back if there hasn't been any.

scath

Yer welcome Mearaman. Yea,

I'll try retuning again Fat-Tony. I'm in Rathmines, so I'd be on the main 3Rock signal. I tried a short while ago. Lets see, Nope, no signal again as at 5:30pm from 3Rock. Hopefully some of the lads will indeed will have some info later about 3Rock. I wonder is Truskmore going to be upgraded this year as planned or is it being deferred til next year. I'm not sure yet if I'll be moving to Leitrim for work or not yet. Would be a shame to have to wait a year to receive DTT if I move home. I don't know does Carrick on Shannon receive from Cairn Hill or Truskmore.

TheDriver

mullaghanish was off until about half five today

fat-tony

I moved my Mvision box back upstairs (where I have an aerial pointed at Three Rock) and tuned in CH54. Signal strength about 60% (normally around 80%), but quality level ok at 95% and all 8 channels (TV / radio) ok except for testcard on TG4. EPG ok also!

Is this just a signal strength issue for you guys?

904473

I've nothing here in Balbriggan. Tried to scan again tonight but only the analogue signals coming through. I'll leave the TV on standby tonight and if there is a change it will update itself.

Red Giant

No signal here in Glasnevin either since early this evening

I think they're doing some HD tests, DVBViewer is reporting that the video signal is 1920x1088. Just a black screen coming in though.

ei9go

DTT is off tonight from mt. leinster CH45.

The signal strength has been down to about 1/3 of it's original for more than a week.

Wonder did the transmitter die?

atellyer

Is that it until Autumn?

slegs

ei9go wrote: »

DTT is off tonight from mt. leinster CH45.

The signal strength has been down to about 1/3 of it's original for more than a week.

Wonder did the transmitter die?

Mt Leinster has moved to 738MHz (from 666MHz)

fat-tony

slegs wrote: »

Mt Leinster has moved to 738MHz (from 666MHz)

738MHz is CH54 (Three Rock's allocated DTT mux1 (and will be used by Kippure I believe))

slegs

fat-tony wrote: »

738MHz is CH54 (Three Rock's allocated DTT mux1 (and will be used by Kippure I believe))

Yes, I now think from what I am seeing that MT Leinster is currently offline and Kippure is actually active at 738MHz

fat-tony

It would make sense (to me anyway:)) to turn off Three Rock CH54, while RTENL are testing Kippure on the same channel, so as to test coverage, before turning Three Rock back on to test for possible interference.

CrowdedHouse

slegs wrote: »

Yes, I now think from what I am seeing that MT Leinster is currently offline and Kippure is actually active at 738MHz

I last checked at around 9 am but it's very unlikely I'd be getting Kippure in Roscrea at 90% sig strength(on a 20 year old Colour King !)

slegs

They may have it at very high power like Cairn Hill when it first switched on. There is not much in the way of hills between Kippure and Roscrea.

scath

That sounds like a veryllogical reason its off Fat Tony. We'll see in the coming days. That note on RTENL about not to be considered operational service is thus wise, if they've to do tests of that type to ensure the later launched service works well. I guess if the signal doesn't return at 3Rock it means testing is complete.

slegs

Very unlikely that services will be switched off no matter what it says on rtenl. That is just a covering statement for them to fall back on should there be issues.

mikedelaney16

Does anyone know anything about the two strong blank muxes I'm picking up in the Deansgrange/Cabinteely/Cornelscourt area on 738 MHz and 818 MHz?

A pointer to a list of frequency allocations would also be helpful, I'm sure there's one somewhere.

Psygnosis

im in rush just doing rescan noting so far any one else missing ireland game SAD

mikedelaney16

Psygnosis wrote: »

im in rush just doing rescan noting so far any one else missing ireland game SAD

The games are one of several reasons I still have analog.

Ganymede

It would appear that the Three Rock reception problem is due to the fact that Kippure has now become active on DTT on the same channel 54. These two transmitters are designed to operate as a Single Frequency Network (SFN) which requires precision timing adjustments at each site so that they don't interfere with each other. Obviously RTÉNL haven't carried out these adjustments yet.

I lost my Three Rock reception yesterday but regained it in time for the footie tonight by replacing my attic aerial with a small indoor aerial that isn't picking up the interfering signal from Kippure.

Peddyr

fat-tony wrote: »

It would make sense (to me anyway:)) to turn off Three Rock CH54, while RTENL are testing Kippure on the same channel, so as to test coverage, before turning Three Rock back on to test for possible interference.

Hmm... Interesting theory. I've got nothing from 3 Rock here in the Isle of Mann except for ch64 which is blank carrier. Prior to the other day, 3 Rock DTT was blasting in here, some 80 miles NNE of Dublin. If Kippure has started testing then I would get good signal from there as my TV3 & TG4 analogue is very good and way better than 3 Rock or CC analogue, unless like CC there's no northward signal??

It seems I was composing this post as Ganymede was posting at the same time. I was hoping that Kippure would be even better signal & Quality than 3 Rock in my location, but alas nothing! :-(

The Cush

fat-tony wrote: »

It would make sense (to me anyway:)) to turn off Three Rock CH54, while RTENL are testing Kippure on the same channel, so as to test coverage, before turning Three Rock back on to test for possible interference.

As I posted previously Kippure and Three-Rock are to be operated as an SFN so interference will not be problem due to signal synchronisation.
My guess is Three Rock will not return until testing is complete on Kippure at which stage both transmitters will operate on the same frequencies and testing of the SFN will begin.

3.8.1.f. How do you propose to ensure that timing and synchronisation are maintained in Single Frequency Networks (SFN)? What is the proposed approach, and rationale for any such approach, for dealing with a situation in which synchronisation of one or more transmitters in an SFN is lost?
It is intended to operate Kippure and Three Rock as an SFN.

The distribution network is locked to a Global Positioning System (GPS) clock sourced from two geographically separate locations. Additionally at SFN stations the SFN adapter is also GPS locked. These facilities are duplicated Thus protecting against loss of synchronisation unless there is a problem with the GPS transmission. In such circumstances the adapter will free run and may drift out of synchronisation over time with the other station(s) in the network. The effect on the ground will be that the areas of constructive and destructive interaction will move. In the extreme it may be necessary to shut down one of the transmitters until the GPS signal is restored. The Global Positioning System (GPS) is the only fully functional Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS). Utilising a constellation of at least 24 Medium Earth Orbit satellites that transmit precise microwave signals, the system enables a GPS receiver to determine its location, speed, direction, and time. As GPS signals are used for major civil and military operations, it is unlikely an interruption to signals will be of any significant duration.

Source: BCI DTT Multiplex Contracts: Applications received

Kippure

ERP and antenna pattern to be agreed as part
of SFN with Three Rock for pre and post ASO.
The outgoing interference of the SFN must be
less than that of the GE06 assignment for Three
Rock

Source: BCI Guide to Submissions

mikedelaney16

Oh how wonderful! Just what we needed!

More bells and whistles to go wrong.

Whatever happened to the K.I.S.S. principle?

I'm getting all the channels here now (but a test card on TG4), I can only guess it's Kippure rather than Three Rock as the signal quality has dropped but it's still perfectly watchable. This is with an indoor aerial in Drumcondra.

homer911

No problem here in South Co. Dublin using set top aerial. Also getting full 7-day epg with my Viaccess NP4 card

The Cush

mikedelaney16 wrote: »

A pointer to a list of frequency allocations would also be helpful, I'm sure there's one somewhere.

ComReg 07/65 Consultation on Digital Terrestrial Television Multiplex Licence Conditions (Aug 2007) - Appendix A – List of Transmission sites, pages 40-41.
BCI Guide to Submissions for DTT contracts (Apr 2008) - Annex 1: Eleven Mandatory Transmission Sites & Annex 2: Supplementary Transmission Sites, pages 44-48.

a bientot

Nothing in Clontarf from Three Rock and Kippure is too far away.......

peneau

Nothing in Sandymount, Dublin, from Three Rock

mikedelaney16

homer911 wrote: »

No problem here in South Co. Dublin using set top aerial. Also getting full 7-day epg with my Viaccess NP4 card

Obviously you're in a different part of South Co. Dublin from me. I can get a signals on 54 and 58 intermittently with a set-top antenna, and 61 and 64 are good and solid. But no programs or epg.

I guess my house has fallen into a null point.

Red Giant

Signal strength reading 35% here in Glasnevin - was 89% before all this kicked off

SRB

In Portaferry Co Down, my in laws are getting a 70% signal, 100% Quality reading on Ch 64 - nothing being stored though - on a scan their box stops and pauses, then moves on. (Obviously, They've lost the channels they were watching from Three Rock.) I'll be down at the weekend, will have a check with DVB viewer.

fat-tony

Three Rock is back this morning in Greystones - solid 89% SS and 95% SQ on the Mvision.

Or is it Kippure on greatly increased power? Anyway, I'm sure there will be tons of posts. The only way you can tell is if you're outside the transmission area of Three Rock and are picking up CH54. I can pick up both, but I am not going up on the roof to rotate the aerial:)

As the The Cush posted, there shouldn't be interference caused by Kippure and Three Rock transmitting as one network, providing they keep in step (as they will with GPS-locked timing). My point was they were probably checking on coverage from Kippure with Three Rock off-air firstly, before turing back on Three Rock.

SRB

That's interesting - phoned the in-laws - their Three Rock is back, but breaking up badly with them, showing 70% signal but only 35% quality. 64 is still reading as before in Portaferry. Their analogue from Three Rock, which tends to come and go, is very strong today so I would have expected their Three Rock DTT to be rock solid.

scath

Still no DTT signal in Rathmines from 3Rock today.

SRB

There's another carrier on Ch61 - not sure if it's Three Rock or Kippure.

fat-tony

Three Rock seems to be down since lunchtime as the SS here in Greystones is 60%, which would indicate that I'm getting Kippure instead.

904473

I contacted RTENL regarding the lack of a signal from Three Rock. They advised me that during this test phase the transmitter will be off from time to time. There is currently work being done with the Three rock DTT Transmitter and they are not quite sure how soon they can have it up and running again.

fat-tony

There's no point in contacting RTENL regarding absence of DTT signals from any particular transmitter as they are testing - so they will come and go.

Ganymede

Reception of Three Rock has now been restored - the interfering signals on the same channel have gone. This problem was caused by DTT transmissions from Kippure, which have now been suspended.

scath

The DTT signal from 3Rock has returned. I think channel 62 or around that. All 4+4 are back at Rathmines. Any chance we might see the planned channels from RTÉ being tested in advance of launch I wonder. Apparently 1st week of October is possible launch date for FTA DTT. I've read that somewhere, from a google search, someone mentioned sources in the national broadcaster.

The Cush

scath wrote: »

Apparently 1st week of October is possible launch date for FTA DTT. I've read that somewhere, from a google search, someone mentioned sources in the national broadcaster.

The October 2009 date was first reported in the Irish Independent in early August 2008. The sources reference was from http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/758456.
RTE sources stated back in August that the network wouldn't be reliable until July at the earliest and that they went for an October launch because they knew it would be reliable by then and that to launch any earlier would risk giving the whole system a bad name.
The official sites state it will will be launched to the viewing public in mid to late 2009 or on a phased basis from Autumn 2009.

Psygnosis

Gone again in Rush

scath

Yip, the Cush, that's where I saw it. Yip. Well we'll have to wait now and see what happens with boxer etc...