Hunters 'smuggling dog-sized deer for shooting -Indo

Terrier

From today Irish Independent - it's been stated before they have been spotted.

Hunters 'smuggling dog-sized deer for shooting

DEER are being smuggled into Ireland purely for the purpose of being shot by hunters, wildlife experts claim.
Chairman of the Irish Wildlife Trust Padraic Fogarty confirmed that there had been sightings of the muntjac, a deer about the size of a large dog, in Wexford
The muntjac are not native to Ireland and cannot be imported legally. Because of their small size, they pose an additional risk to trees as they may be able to slip through fencing designed to keep out our own deer species, Mr Fogarty said.
Meanwhile, Peter Cosgrove, from the Scottish-based environmental consultancy Envirocentre, said insiders had warned him about the problem of smuggled deer.
He urged border officials to be more vigilant, as he feared Scottish deer were being brought illegally to Ireland.
"We have people who have their ear to the ground who are concerned about it and they are getting more and more worried," he said.
"We have had several different people saying this is going on and that it's becoming a problem. Nobody has yet been caught in the act."
Mr Cosgrove added that if the non-native species of deer start breeding in Ireland they could wreak havoc -- damaging forests by overgrazing and out-competing native animals.

Disease
The animals could also spread diseases from mainland Britain to Ireland. Usually, animals transported from one country to another must spend time in quarantine.
It is illegal to introduce an alien species into the wild in the Republic and in the North. There is a policy to kill on sight any of the non-native deer that are spotted.
Muntjac were first introduced from China to Bedfordshirein the early 20th century and spread across England, Wales and the Scottish Borders.
A common name for muntjac is "barking deer", resulting from the repeated, loud noise they make when under threa

lordarpad

ah well, more variety on the table. do they interbreed with sitka and red?

Sika_Stalker

lordarpad wrote: »

ah well, more variety on the table. do they interbreed with sika and red?

no they dont but they will strip the undergrowth in woodland

lordarpad

not good. and looking at their breeding habits I.d be surprised if there was any getting rid of them

Sika_Stalker

their here to stay me thinks...

Dusty87

Did anyone actually see these yet?? Im not disputing it at all cos its believable but could it also be a case of them panthers up north, the ones that reaked havoc for a few months a couple of years ago and now seem to have vanished.

lordarpad

Sika_Stalker wrote: »

their here to stay me thinks...

I just hope there were enough brought in to be gnetically stable

jimbo 22

I had seen it one night on the road when driving huddled adjacent to a gate post thought it was a goat / small sheep or something - it was dark

I found out after that what i had seen was a mauntjac

It was shot soon after in a field bordering my fathers land in Broad daylight
by a neighbour who stalks deer - cant name i would rather not disclose

The neighbour has pictures to proove it

If memory serves me right it happened Nov / Dec 08

And No, under normal circumstances are there wild deer or any other species of deer living in my area - so it was a definite released without permission :eek: :eek: :eek:

Dusty87

And what part of the country have they been spotted lads?? As it said there ''kill on sight'', wil you need deer licence or wil they be classed as vermin?

boc121

jimbo 22 wrote: »

It was shot soon after in a field bordering my fathers land in Broad daylight
by a neighbour who stalks deer

What was it shot with and was it eaten?
Just wondering what they're like.
Cheers.

Double Barrel

boc121
Their venison makes superb eating.

jwshooter

jimbo 22 wrote: »

I had seen it one night on the road when driving huddled adjacent to a gate post thought it was a goat / small sheep or something - it was dark

I found out after that what i had seen was a mauntjac

It was shot soon after in a field bordering my fathers land in Broad daylight
by a neighbour who stalks deer - cant name i would rather not disclose

The neighbour has pictures to proove it

If memory serves me right it happened Nov / Dec 08

And No, under normal circumstances are there wild deer or any other species of deer living in my area - so it was a definite released without permission :eek: :eek: :eek:

jimbo 22 can you pm me with the location in wexford thanks.
more total **** no facts again .
the size of a large dog if thats what you think you never seen muntjac .
a mature muntjac is the size of a small springer bitch .very petite animal

june /july/august when sika calfs and starting to move all the sighting are by people that never seen a calf before let a lone a munty,

any way scotland has very few muntjac ,if they were coming from any where it would be the south of england .

a pic or a carcass is proof not hear say

boc121

Double Barrel wrote: »

Their venison makes superb eating.

Cheers Double Barrel.
Any idea what we're allowed to shoot them with?

deerhunter1

Ya from wicklow down to wexford i heard they were seen and shot last year, mainly brought in from south england where there are massive amounts of them, if classed as vermin they can be shot with any reasonable calibre,even 12G i would say,

jwshooter

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Ya from wicklow down to wexford i heard they were seen and shot last year, mainly brought in from south england where there are massive amounts of them, if classed as vermin they can be shot with any reasonable calibre,even 12G i would say,

you heard they were seen and shot ,where there are massive amounts of them .thanks for more facts.


muntjac in the state have a season and are protected .thats of course if there is any .

none returned so far .

deerhunter1

plenty in south of england, only a handful seen here i read somewhere last year, trying to dig out where i read it,i believe there is no season here for them which was also in the article i read i am nearly certain of

jwshooter

www.CountryChannelTV .

click on ,,click hear to watch now ,than click on search videos.

print in deer or deer muntjac

IRLConor

Previous threads on this topic:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055243148
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055369587

marlin vs

I shot 2 just outside Lismore and have them hanging at the moment.I'll post pictures tomorrow.

tiny-nioclas

I heard there were slots seen there last year alright, lismore in waterford yeah?

thelurcher

marlin vs wrote: »

I shot 2 just outside Lismore and have them hanging at the moment.I'll post pictures tomorrow.

Would be interesting to see those pics marlin - or did you deliberately wait until after midnight to post for a good reason

marlin vs

thelurcher wrote: »

Would be interesting to see those pics marlin - or did you deliberately wait until after midnight to post for a good reason

Well done thelurcher, sure it was worth a try, I thought i'd catch more people.

Vegeta

marlin vs wrote: »

Well done thelurcher, sure it was worth a try, I thought i'd catch more people.

Good effort though

Alzir

Some friends and I were driving along the foot of Mt Leinster some weeks back when we had that bout of snow. I was driving and one of my mates said "look a deer" I barely caught a faint glimpse out of the corner of my eye and i thought it was an adult hare. It leaped up a bank to our left hand side.
I knew a deer that small would have to be a Muntjac and I know we dont have them in Ireland weel at least not wild anyways. They were adament it was a deer but I wasnt so sure but after reading this in the indo i now belive it was.

jwshooter

Alzir wrote: »

Some friends and I were driving along the foot of Mt Leinster some weeks back when we had that bout of snow. I was driving and one of my mates said "look a deer" I barely caught a faint glimpse out of the corner of my eye and i thought it was an adult hare. It leaped up a bank to our left hand side.
I knew a deer that small would have to be a Muntjac and I know we dont have them in Ireland weel at least not wild anyways. They were adament it was a deer but I wasnt so sure but after reading this in the indo i now belive it was.

there is no muntjac on mt leinster .

its the last place they would live .

muntjac dont move like deer more like a hare

meathstevie

If they're here at all are they listed as a protected species with an open and closed season ? If they are I don't think that's a good idea. The only proper classification for them would be vermin and since they're only the size of a very big hare what's the problem using potent 12g cartridges or typical foxing calibers like .223 or .22 hornet or .17 centerfire ?

jwshooter

that debate is going on it england at the moment .a lot of muntys been cull by hunters with legal stalking rifles have lead shot in them .

22.250 is the min cal hear, scotland 223 etc are legal for small deer .

im not even a fan of the 22.250 still been legal for deer hear they should be fazed out

lordarpad

jwshooter wrote: »

that debate is going on it england at the moment .a lot of muntys been cull by hunters with legal stalking rifles have lead shot in them .

22.250 is the min cal hear, scotland 223 etc are legal for small deer .

im not even a fan of the 22.250 still been legal for deer hear they should be fazed out

I agree. .243 for Sika and 6.5 mm for Red would make sense IMO. Muntjacs prolly ye goode olde .222

kakashka

No matter what you hunt or what you use IMO it's up to the human to know his limitations

Alzir

jwshooter wrote: »

there is no muntjac on mt leinster .

its the last place they would live .

I know that. What I saw was climbing a bank into a field at the foot of the mountain, not up on it.

jwshooter wrote: »

muntjac dont move like deer more like a hare

I dont think ive ever seen a live Muntjac. I thought it was a hare but the lads with me were sure it was a deer but I didnt get any sort of a good look at it.

jwshooter

i have seen them live in the uk they dont look deer like .you could have 5 living in your garden and never see them.

IRLConor

jimboddb

Good link to get an idea of the size, its not much bigger than a jack russel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3DuYxt3nYM&feature=related

lordarpad

jimboddb wrote: »

Good link to get an idea of the size, its not much bigger than a jack russel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3DuYxt3nYM&feature=related

OK, 17 HMR or .22 Hornet should do it ...

Sparks

That's not a deer, that's a rat with ambition.
Feck, is there any meat worth eating on it at all?

jwshooter

the size of a LARGE DOG " quote" thats one hell of a big jack russel if so ,
the munty looks like a mature female.

John Griffin

jwshooter wrote: »

there is no muntjac on mt leinster .

its the last place they would live .

muntjac dont move like deer more like a hare

Thou protest too much:D:D

The cats out of the bag:)

meathstevie wrote: »

If they're here at all are they listed as a protected species with an open and closed season ? If they are I don't think that's a good idea. The only proper classification for them would be vermin and since they're only the size of a very big hare what's the problem using potent 12g cartridges or typical foxing calibers like .223 or .22 hornet or .17 centerfire ?

They were automatically protected due to the wording of the wildlife act "all deer species". They now have an open season which is for 12 months of the year, ie. they don't have a closed season. They can only be legally shot with legal deer calibers at the moment.

lordarpad wrote: »

OK, 17 HMR or .22 Hornet should do it ...

It would not be legal to shoot one with either of these calibers and it could be considered inhumane to use a .17hmr on one.

Dusty87 wrote: »

Did anyone actually see these yet?? Im not disputing it at all cos its believable but could it also be a case of them panthers up north, the ones that reaked havoc for a few months a couple of years ago and now seem to have vanished.

Yes, i posted photos here before of the first one shot in Wicklow in 2007 and i have spoken to many very reliable people who have seen them. In saying that i have had many people wrongly identify sika calves as muntjac also.

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Ya from wicklow down to wexford i heard they were seen and shot last year, mainly brought in from south england where there are massive amounts of them, if classed as vermin they can be shot with any reasonable calibre,even 12G i would say,

They are not classed as vermin and using a 12G would be classed as illegal.

Anybody with sightings or animals shot please report them to NPWS 0404-45800.

jwshooter

thanks john ,not too bad as long as the muntjac is not out of the bag .:D