HSE closes centre for patients - but retains staff

civis_liberalis

City mental health facility to close for 40 days

Tue 31st March 2009


FOUR training centres in Galway for people living with mental health problems will close for 40 days this year because the Health Service Executive West is ‘penny pinching’ on the cost of transport and meals, the Sentinel has learned.
The HSE West has confirmed that the Galway Training Centre in Merlin Park and three training centres in Ballinasloe, Loughrea and Tuam, which cater for people with mental illness and disability, will close for 40 days this year.
The closures will directly affect 240 clients who depend on the centres’ services every week.
The Sentinel understands that staff at the centres will still be brought into work but the clients will have to find alternative arrangements – in many cases the clients have no family to go to.
The closures – which are designed to save money onthe cost of providing transport and meals – have been described as a “despicable...


Complete disgrace :mad:

Robbo

Reminds me of that Yes, Minister where Hacker visits the most efficient hospital in the NHS. 300 administrators and no patients.

doolox

Guess who?
Would it happen in the private sector? At work but no work to do?
I think not.
Would the customers stand for it?
No.

Zzippy

doolox wrote: »

Who has the union backing and bargaining power?

Guess who?
Would it happen in the private sector? At work but no work to do?
I think not.
Would the customers stand for it?
No.

FFS! Blaming this on the unions? Are you for real, or just jumping on the "bash the public sector" bandwagon?
This is a HSE money-saving decision, do you for one second think the unions want patients or services affected by cutbacks? This is nothing to do with unions. In my experience the frontline staff in the HSE - those nurses and doctors who would be working with these mental health patients - are dedicated professionals. You think they want to come into work and have no patients to help?
Grow up and educate yourself so you can form informed opinions, don't spout some secondhand anti-PS bull that you read in the Sun...

doolox

doolox wrote: »

Guess who?
Would it happen in the private sector? At work but no work to do?
I think not.
Would the customers stand for it?
No.

I suppose it fair that hard working doctors and nurses are paying a fortune in a pension levy to fund the dole money of the private sector who were making a fortune during the good times while nurses earned the same and now that they have lost their jobs the already underpaid nurses have to hand over their very hard earned money.

Its a disgrace and they should have gone on strike. I'm not standing up for all the public sector but Doctors, nurses and teachers etc are being treated very poorly.

I would be working in the private sector myself if I could have got a job but couldnt so I am doing a phD now instead so I am not saying there was anything wrong with people making lots of money during the good times.

jasonh

I think those private sector ppl who have lost there jobs - would have rather taken a 10% pay-cut than queing at the dole office.
And this business of 'private sector who were making a fortune during the good times' - i certainly didn't make a fortune - in fact i would have probably got paid more (or at least on par) working for the university.

diverdriver

Just to give another example. The HSE sent out certain lab work that used to be done in UCHG to save money. None of the staff were made redundant, just sent to other labs which are now overstaffed. None of these people earn less than 50K a year.

I suppose it fair that hard working doctors and nurses are paying a fortune in a pension levy to fund the dole money of the private sector who were making a fortune during the good times while nurses earned the same and now that they have lost their jobs the already underpaid nurses have to hand over their very hard earned money.

That's total billox. Every penny paid to nurses and doctors comes from hard working private sector worker's taxes. There are no underpaid Doctors and Nurses. Most people on the dole were lower paid workers. In my last private sector job on three and six month recurring contracts. I was paid less than a tenner an hour and I earned every last cent of it and I could have been let go at a minutes notice. Name a public sector job where that happens?

Really people need to get it into their heads. The money isn't there anymore to pay this huge bloated public service. It simply isn't there!

jasonh

jasonh wrote: »

I think those private sector ppl who have lost there jobs - would have rather taken a 10% pay-cut than queing at the dole office.
And this business of 'private sector who were making a fortune during the good times' - i certainly didn't make a fortune - in fact i would have probably got paid more (or at least on par) working for the university.

I admit I probably made a bit of a generalisation regards people making lots of money but their was up-roar when their was talk of strikes with regards to the pension levy with people saying it was a disgrace for them to be going on strike so in effect they are happy for the public sector to be punished.

I will make the point again, Personally I have always preferred the idea of working in the private sector and it is where I will probably end up at least for a while but people cannot expect public sector workers to hand over large amounts of their wages either. I would also agree that their is massive waste in the public sector and lot of office jobs that shouldn't exist in the first place.

diverdriver

diverdriver wrote: »

There are no underpaid Doctors and Nurses.

Granted doctors are paid enough but for the work they do, responsibility and hours every single Nurse is underpaid. Both my mother and sister are nurses and I know how hard they work and the pressure they are under so don't come out with a load of bollix that you know absolutely nothing about!

There are plenty jobs in the HSE that need to go but these are people in the offices etc not the nurses(or nurses working in nurse management etc which also play a vital role in running a hospital), doctors, porters, health care assistants who try their best to keep hospitals functioning every day.

EDIT: I forgot to say that I agree that the mental health clinic should not be closed its not right at all and it is a disgrace but that is the HSE's fault. The other points I have made have been off topic so sorry about that OP.

civis_liberalis

Robbo wrote: »

Reminds me of that Yes, Minister where Hacker visits the most efficient hospital in the NHS. 300 administrators and no patients.

Ya, and they ended up housing assylum seekers there. Great show. Amazing how current the topics they covered in it are still, considering it's over a quarter of a century since it first aired.


Back to the present... What about the poor souls in need of care that don't have family that could fill the void while it is closed.:mad:

Mrs OBumble

Miah Gigantic Talker wrote: »

and lot of office jobs that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Please name some.

Mrs OBumble

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Back to the present... What about the poor souls in need of care that don't have family that could fill the void while it is closed.:mad:

The places involved are training centres, not places offering residential care. I'd imagine some clients will spend their days hanging around Eyre Sq and the like. Others will stay at home and watch TV, or whatever else it is for the time each day that they don't spend at the centres.

Mrs OBumble

doolox wrote: »

Guess who?
Would it happen in the private sector? At work but no work to do?
I think not.
Would the customers stand for it?
No.

I would imagine that the majority of the staff will be on enforced annual leave (whether or not their kids have school holidays at the time), or undertaking training or other non-patient-contact activity that they need to do in the course of a year anyway.

Don't get me wrong: I think closures for this long are stupid, because the clients will relapse because of gaps in their programmes, and then the health-service will have to spend resources sorting out their medication and behaviours again. But thoughtless sensationalist reporting and knee-jerk reactions are equally silly.

Oh: and things like this do happen in the private sector. Parents who have kids in a creche typically have to pay the creche fees even on the weeks the place is closed or the child is away, just to keep the place available for the child. (Justified by the fact that the staff still need to be paid, even if the place is closed.)

axiom32

having not yet read the full article can anybody tell me what day is ear marked for the unions to head to the streets to highlight this outrage against the patients

Sconsey

This thread has veered off into political generalisations but what the hell?

Health service is probably one of the most inefficient organisations in the country...I don't think nurses are overpaid at all, it's a sh1tty job for most of them, they deserve to be well paid....most public service workers are deluded idiots if they think they are going to get away with the overpayment they've managed to get the last few years....pension levy was a good idea badly implememnted...putting patients out on the street for 40 days will not solve anything.

Sconsey

JustMary wrote: »

I would imagine that the majority of the staff will be on enforced annual leave (whether or not their kids have school holidays at the time

Doubt it, don't think you can force an employee to change the terms of their contract. Depends on the type of contract I guess but in most cases it has to be volountary.

Mrs OBumble

Sconsey wrote: »

Doubt it, don't think you can force an employee to change the terms of their contract. Depends on the type of contract I guess but in most cases it has to be volountary.

Annual leave.

Some contracts say that it has to be taken at mutually agreed times. However most have the provision for employers to direct that it is taken as times to suit them. I'm not sure if the HSE contracts are like this, but would expect them to be.

Now forcing staff to take unpaid leave would be a whole different ball game.

Zzippy

Joy Unsightly Joyrider wrote: »

EDIT: I forgot to say that I agree that the mental health clinic should not be closed its not right at all and it is a disgrace but that is the HSE's fault. The other points I have made have been off topic so sorry about that OP.

Yes it went way off topic. Yes the clinic should not be closed, but your original post blamed it on unions - its not the unions fault, nor ordinary workers in the PS, its management and govt you should be blaming.
Other people going off topic and laying into PS workers is just getting boring at this stage. Cop on and start putting the blame where it lies - FF.

jasonh

i've heard a few stories about married couples arguing over this private vs public (mainly because one of them is in the public sector and the other one is in private).
But, it would be interesting to hear from a couple who, one was originally in private and the other in public, and the private one has lost their job. I wonder what the one in the PS thinks now??

I do agree that nurse's get paid feck all for what they have to deal with - maybe an exception should be made with them re: pension levy?

Teachers, the thing that always sticks with me on this one, is the amount of holidays they get.

JustMary

JustMary wrote: »

Please name some.

I have a fair idea of the workings of the hse and their are plenty of people on big money but doing very little. I am not talking about nursing support, nurse management and other jobs that deal with organization of facilities etc etc the jobs I'm talking about have nothing to do with the actual health care aspect and some are just made up jobs with nothing really to do. Actually nurse managers are very poorly paid and people with equivalent levels of responsibility etc in the private sector would be earning 3 times as much.

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes it went way off topic. Yes the clinic should not be closed, but your original post blamed it on unions - its not the unions fault, nor ordinary workers in the PS, its management and govt you should be blaming.
Other people going off topic and laying into PS workers is just getting boring at this stage. Cop on and start putting the blame where it lies - FF.

I didnt blame it on unions . I was defending ordinary workers, I even thanked your post! Are you confusing me with another poster?

Zzippy

Joy Unsightly Joyrider wrote: »

I have a fair idea of the workings of the hse and their are plenty of people on big money but doing very little. I am not talking about nursing support, nurse management and other jobs that deal with organization of facilities etc etc the jobs I'm talking about have nothing to do with the actual health care aspect and some are just made up jobs with nothing really to do. Actually nurse managers are very poorly paid and people with equivalent levels of responsibility etc in the private sector would be earning 3 times as much.



I didnt blame it on unions . I was defending ordinary workers, I even thanked your post! Are you confusing me with another poster?

Oops sorry, it was doolox, not yourself! My bad! :o

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

Oops sorry, it was doolox, not yourself! My bad! :o

No problem!:)

doolox

AS one of the unfortunates excluded from Social partnership not through my own choice I stand by what I said in my original post on this subjects.
HSE are out to save money.
The clients in this case have no political strength and no bargaining power so they are the ones to suffer.
The staff in question are in a union and so have some element of political bargaining power.
They will be paid and kept on because of this power.
Their clients lose out because of their lack of power.
It is not a pleasant situation but I would love to be a member of a union. I would love to have the power, but as an employee of two different U.S multinationals operating in this country we were told Unions are not recognised and pay agreements are strictly on a one to one basis between each worker and the management.
Needless to say under this very one sided arrangement our bagaining power was weak and our wages have become eroded when compared to SOME
members of the public sector.
This doesn't mean I am anti-union.
This doesn't mean I am anti-public sector.
I would love to have my share of the power they have to leverage a better wage and more job security for myself.
I also recognise in myself a certain level of flexibility and willingness to change that is sometimes lacking in the public service. Unfortunately this did not stop me losing my jobs each after 14 years or so of service.Also unfortunately some people in the public sector will have a big shock when practices and methods now used in the private sector get copied over into the public sector in the search for more efficiencies.
Expect skin and hair to fly as battle-lines are drawn up and war is declared on the last bastions of traditional trade unionism.
It won't be pleasant and I won't be gloating as more people join the ranks of the servile, compliant and disposable wage-slaves in the comtemporary private sector.

gaeilgegrinds

Regarding teacher's holidays, I know nobody in my school who take those 11 weeks, I work 8 of them between Irish college or reader in school and correcting. Just so ye see how most of us work that.

Head The Wall

Gaeilgegrinds I presume you get paid for that work you do during your holidays. So you are getting paid twice, the point still stands!!!

Most people when they get holidays take them because they need them but ye get so much holidays that ye can take on another job to pass the time

Zzippy

doolox wrote: »

AS one of the unfortunates excluded from Social partnership not through my own choice I stand by what I said in my original post on this subjects.
HSE are out to save money.
The clients in this case have no political strength and no bargaining power so they are the ones to suffer.
The staff in question are in a union and so have some element of political bargaining power.
They will be paid and kept on because of this power.
Their clients lose out because of their lack of power.
It is not a pleasant situation but I would love to be a member of a union. I would love to have the power, but as an employee of two different U.S multinationals operating in this country we were told Unions are not recognised and pay agreements are strictly on a one to one basis between each worker and the management.
Needless to say under this very one sided arrangement our bagaining power was weak and our wages have become eroded when compared to SOME
members of the public sector.
This doesn't mean I am anti-union.
This doesn't mean I am anti-public sector.
I would love to have my share of the power they have to leverage a better wage and more job security for myself.
I also recognise in myself a certain level of flexibility and willingness to change that is sometimes lacking in the public service. Unfortunately this did not stop me losing my jobs each after 14 years or so of service.Also unfortunately some people in the public sector will have a big shock when practices and methods now used in the private sector get copied over into the public sector in the search for more efficiencies.
Expect skin and hair to fly as battle-lines are drawn up and war is declared on the last bastions of traditional trade unionism.
It won't be pleasant and I won't be gloating as more people join the ranks of the servile, compliant and disposable wage-slaves in the comtemporary private sector.

You've gone completely off topic, turning the issue of a clinic closing down which has nothing to do with the union into a rant about the public sector. If the staff were not in a union they would still be kept on during a temporary closure because the HSE cannot afford to lose those staff and have to rehire and retrain more staff.

Head The Wall wrote: »

Gaeilgegrinds I presume you get paid for that work you do during your holidays. So you are getting paid twice, the point still stands!!!

Most people when they get holidays take them because they need them but ye get so much holidays that ye can take on another job to pass the time

You're assuming that GG is in a permanent post. There are huge numbers of teachers in temporary posts, who get no pay when schools close for summer holidays, Christmas, Easter, etc. Thats why the numbers on the dole rise so much at those times.

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

If the staff were not in a union they would still be kept on during a temporary closure because the HSE cannot afford to lose those staff and have to rehire and retrain more staff.

Rubbish: if it were not for the union power, the HSE would do exactly what the private sector do, and tell the staff to take unpaid leave, or put them on a three-day week. The bit about not being able to afford to lose them would be true only if there were so many other jobs out there that this treatment would make the staff leave, which isn't the case in the current environment.

I've worked in both the public and private sectors overseas, and am firmly of the opinion (there) that public-sector workers are no better off. Here, I suspect that the same is true in terms of workloads and stresses. But they are better off because they don't seem to ever face redundancy and they have guaranteed, increasing-with-salary-changes-even-after-they've-retired pensions.

Mrs OBumble

Joy Unsightly Joyrider wrote: »

I have a fair idea of the workings of the hse and their are plenty of people on big money but doing very little. I am not talking about nursing support, nurse management and other jobs that deal with organization of facilities etc etc the jobs I'm talking about have nothing to do with the actual health care aspect and some are just made up jobs with nothing really to do.

Please quote some job-titles.

JustMary

JustMary wrote: »

Please quote some job-titles.

I'm not going to start naming positions on a public forum, Galway is too small a place for that.

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Rubbish: if it were not for the union power, the HSE would do exactly what the private sector do, and tell the staff to take unpaid leave, or put them on a three-day week. The bit about not being able to afford to lose them would be true only if there were so many other jobs out there that this treatment would make the staff leave, which isn't the case in the current environment.

I've worked in both the public and private sectors overseas, and am firmly of the opinion (there) that public-sector workers are no better off. Here, I suspect that the same is true in terms of workloads and stresses. But they are better off because they don't seem to ever face redundancy and they have guaranteed, increasing-with-salary-changes-even-after-they've-retired pensions.

Yeah, what a wonderful way to treat our doctors and nurses, put them on a 3 day week. Guess what, there aren't that many trained psych doctors and nurses out there that will take that treatment.

Instead of focusing on unions that represent workers, how about talking about the disregard for patients lives and health that the HSE has shown? Oh no, you wouldn't be able to get your bitter post about PS workers in then, would you?

daithi1970

..just to correct Diverdiver, 7 temporary scientists were let go when the cytology lab closed,and to say that all staff were on >50k is factually incorrect.Moreover, of those staff that were redeployed, not all have been given permanent contracts.

daithi

SMCG

I know a person well who about 2 years ago moved from private to public sector doing the same thing but lower workload (ie is bored some days) paid €16,000 a year more instantly, all govt perks like pension and ENORMOUS amounts of holiday, parental and sick leave that we don't get in the private sector. Told me that the boss takes the piss and was on sick leave for 6 months and was seen out shopping etc in that time completely well.

It makes me so angry! My partner's job was cut to 2 days per week and I work 3, we have 2 kids. On breadline.

That's not opinion or theory. Thats real people.

kraggy

Head The Wall wrote: »

Gaeilgegrinds I presume you get paid for that work you do during your holidays. So you are getting paid twice, the point still stands!!!

Most people when they get holidays take them because they need them but ye get so much holidays that ye can take on another job to pass the time

Have you ever taught a class full of children?

The holidays teachers get are badly needed. You should try teaching for a prolonged period of time. It's a total burnout.

Also, the pay isn't up to much considering how long it takes to qualify.

doolox

Teachers are not unique in having to field a large number of demanding "clients" on their own for extended periods of time. Most service type jobs of any appreciable skill level are like that because with ever increasing competition and process improvement schemes more and more people are taken out of the work place and more is asked of the remaining staff.
With mobile phones and internet connections people can be tracked all day at work and there can be no excuses to take a 5-minute breather.
Travel during working hours for most low-ranking employees has been replaced by video online conferencing so they don't even get the perk of free travel to foreign parts on company business anymore.
Monitoring systems can quickly tell who is performing and who isn't leading to a Darwinian performance race among employees not to be slowest and risk getting made redundant. Teachers used to use the excuse of the nature of class-room work as a justification for their short hours, typically 5-6 hours a day, 22 hrs a week.
Trouble is most jobs have become equally intensive but the hours haven't been reduced to compensate. Most people still work 39 hr weeks,8 hr days and 48 weeks a year as if their jobs were the same as 30 years ago.

Zzippy

doolox wrote: »

Teachers are not unique in having to field a large number of demanding "clients" on their own for extended periods of time. Most service type jobs of any appreciable skill level are like that because with ever increasing competition and process improvement schemes more and more people are taken out of the work place and more is asked of the remaining staff.
With mobile phones and internet connections people can be tracked all day at work and there can be no excuses to take a 5-minute breather.
Travel during working hours for most low-ranking employees has been replaced by video online conferencing so they don't even get the perk of free travel to foreign parts on company business anymore.
Monitoring systems can quickly tell who is performing and who isn't leading to a Darwinian performance race among employees not to be slowest and risk getting made redundant. Teachers used to use the excuse of the nature of class-room work as a justification for their short hours, typically 5-6 hours a day, 22 hrs a week.
Trouble is most jobs have become equally intensive but the hours haven't been reduced to compensate. Most people still work 39 hr weeks,8 hr days and 48 weeks a year as if their jobs were the same as 30 years ago.

Do you actually know what you're talking about, or are you just making stuff up? Video conferencing for low-ranking staff? Where? And free travel to carry out work isn't exactly a perk - you're travelling for work.. :rolleyes:

Teachers don't just work during classroom hours, they spend many hours at home correcting homework and working on class plans. I know, my mother is a primary schoool teacher and spends a huge amount of time at home working on these tasks. Like another poster said, if you had ever tried teachin you would know how stressful it is.

Head The Wall

When teachers work up enough hours during the months they do attend school to compensate for getting such long holidays then they can come back and argue this point. They would swear they are the only people that have tough jobs

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

Video conferencing for low-ranking staff? Where?

Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings. Granted, sometimes it's only an audio-conference and not video. And yes, work travel used to be a "perk" because you got to go places you normally wouldn't visit, and you had some "slack" time while actually travelling.

Teachers work long hours during term times. But they have lots of non-term-time weeks. And outside of core classroom hours, they have a lot more freedom than most workers about when these hours are worked. They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should. And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count.

doubleglaze

JustMary, I'm a second level teacher and I agreed with everything you said up until this point (everything bar the "teachers work long hours during term times" bit - some, unfortunately, do the minimum):

"They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should." Please explain that one, cos you've completely lost me there!

The next point is simply wrong (if it were true I'd agree with you):
"And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count."

mrsweebri

Class teaching is the crappest most miserable job I've ever done. The kids were great, but the school environment and curricular system were a nightmare (both in Scotland and Ireland, both first and second level). I gave it up, holidays and all for much worse pay and less stability and I've never been happier or healthier.

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings. Granted, sometimes it's only an audio-conference and not video. And yes, work travel used to be a "perk" because you got to go places you normally wouldn't visit, and you had some "slack" time while actually travelling.

Teachers work long hours during term times. But they have lots of non-term-time weeks. And outside of core classroom hours, they have a lot more freedom than most workers about when these hours are worked. They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should. And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count.

You are talking so much rubbish I think you're just making it up now, and haven't actually got a clue what you're talking about. Either that or you're trolling. In fact I'm struggling to remember a single positive post in this forum from you. You really are a miserable person, I feel sorry for you.

Webbs

SMCG wrote: »

I know a person well who about 2 years ago moved from private to public sector doing the same thing but lower workload (ie is bored some days) paid €16,000 a year more instantly, all govt perks like pension and ENORMOUS amounts of holiday, parental and sick leave that we don't get in the private sector. Told me that the boss takes the piss and was on sick leave for 6 months and was seen out shopping etc in that time completely well.

It makes me so angry! My partner's job was cut to 2 days per week and I work 3, we have 2 kids. On breadline.

That's not opinion or theory. Thats real people.

Everyone can come up with examples of people working in the private or public sector who have 'bucked the system', have got good pay, bonuses, holidays etc. You can be angry with that person but dont tar everyone with the same brush.
I chose to stay in the semipublic system both here and the UK and as a result have had lower pay, no bonuses etc over many many years which would have been payed to my private sector collegues. I chose it as it offered more flexibility in my line of work, I didnt complain that I was getting poor pay at the time, it was my choice, as it was most peoples choice over the past years to choose their line of employment, the public sector (both here and the Uk) until very recent years would have been ridiculed as being poorly payed etc.
People cant have their cake eat it and then complain because they have been greedy and other people still have some cake left.
This is a generalisation not aimed at you personally as I am in a similar position regarding loss of household income and struggling to cope as most people are.
This blame and counter blame between the workers in the various sectors is only deflecting attention away from the real issue and that is the incompetance of the current government

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

You are talking so much rubbish I think you're just making it up now, and haven't actually got a clue what you're talking about. Either that or you're trolling.

My last job, for a multi-national, involved spending a LOT of time organising running audio-conferences for people working on the same project from sites around the world. My job before that, for a public-sector organisation, included being on a working party to implement video-conferenceing throughout the department (nationwide), and then many other project that I was on used vid-cons instead of travelling. A lot earlier in my career, I did a lot of business travel for things that I'm certain would not be done face to face any more. So I think I know what I'm talking about.

Zzippy wrote: »

In fact I'm struggling to remember a single positive post in this forum from you. You really are a miserable person, I feel sorry for you.

I normally don't stoop to responding to this sort of comment, but am making an exception just for you! Suggest you take a trip to Specsavers before reviewing these from the last few days:

Recommending a lunch place:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59714869&postcount=16

Denouncing racism, and recommending a local business that I think is particularly good:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59724124&postcount=13

Giving transport information, and making the OP'er aware of a safety "challenge" they could face:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59682256&postcount=5

Suggesting evening activities that don't involve drinking:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59632345&postcount=5

doubleglaze

has a particularly draining effect on teachers:

A few years ago, I was contracted to work in an office for the week of my Feb. mid-term holidays (completely non-school related work, involved working in a laboratory).

Because I was very rusty in the field, I had to work flat out, from 9 o clock til 9pm, every day from the Monday 'til the Friday. I barely had time to eat. I must have put in about 55 hours that week.

The thing I remarked at the end of that hectic week was that, although the work was intensive, I wasn't half as tired at the end of the week as I normally would be after an ordinary day's teaching. I found that very interesting.

I figure that the reason why I found a day's teaching more tiring than a full week's work was because when one teaches a group of kids, one is constantly multi-tasking at a ferocious rate, whereas, in the lab job, I was either working with one or two (sane) adults or on my own. The laboratory work involved very little multi-tasking. It was a doddle really compared to teaching.

I should add that I love teaching. Teaching one-to-one is a doddle and involves very little multi-tasking, whereas teaching classes of 15-35 is a singularly energy-draining job (mentally and emotionally).

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings. Granted, sometimes it's only an audio-conference and not video. And yes, work travel used to be a "perk" because you got to go places you normally wouldn't visit, and you had some "slack" time while actually travelling.

Teachers work long hours during term times. But they have lots of non-term-time weeks. And outside of core classroom hours, they have a lot more freedom than most workers about when these hours are worked. They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should. And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count.

JustMary wrote: »

My last job, for a multi-national, involved spending a LOT of time organising running audio-conferences for people working on the same project from sites around the world. My job before that, for a public-sector organisation, included being on a working party to implement video-conferenceing throughout the department (nationwide), and then many other project that I was on used vid-cons instead of travelling. A lot earlier in my career, I did a lot of business travel for things that I'm certain would not be done face to face any more. So I think I know what I'm talking about.




I normally don't stoop to responding to this sort of comment, but am making an exception just for you! Suggest you take a trip to Specsavers before reviewing these from the last few days:

Recommending a lunch place:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59714869&postcount=16

Denouncing racism, and recommending a local business that I think is particularly good:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59724124&postcount=13

Giving transport information, and making the OP'er aware of a safety "challenge" they could face:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59682256&postcount=5

Suggesting evening activities that don't involve drinking:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59632345&postcount=5

So you worked for ONE multinational, and ONE public agency, that had video conferencing, and that justifies your opinion that "Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings" is using video conferencing? Thats fine for very large organisations like the TWO you mentioned. Like I said, I think you're making it up as you go along.

As for work travel being a perk, maybe it was for you, maybe you made the most of it. I don't call driving to Dublin at 6am and driving back at 9pm a perk, nor do I call waiting around in airports for hours on end a perk. I do some overseas travel, and it involves working weekends away, and you're expected back in work as soon as the earliest flight can get you home.

And you obviously haven't a clue how stressful a job teaching is. Your condescending attitude to teachers just highlights your ignorance of their job.

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

... like the TWO you mentioned. Like I said, I think you're making it up as you go along.

It may surprise you, but I have both friends and professional contacts who work in other organisations. Funnily enough, we compare notes about what our respective organisations are doing.