Open Market Price

Fjordie

Anyone know where Revenue get the OMP for VRT calculation? I recently imported a VW Passat, and the car was valued significantly above the current market. Seems to me that Revenue are way out of kilter with the market.

EPM

Do a search...

Owen

I believe they use one of these :

Johnboy Mac

Fjordie wrote: »

Anyone know where Revenue get the OMP for VRT calculation? I recently imported a VW Passat, and the car was valued significantly above the current market. Seems to me that Revenue are way out of kilter with the market.

I can only presume from the SIMI as I doubt they actually do their own research.
This of course would have suited the main dealers very well in the past. It's a typically Irish set up, works for the Revenue and the motor industry but not the punters. Rip off Ireland again?

Owen

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

I can only presume from the SIMI as I doubt they actually do their own research.
This of course would have suited the main dealers very well in the past. It's a typically Irish set up, works for the Revenue and the motor industry but not the punters. Rip off Ireland again?

And the award for silliest post goes to ...

How could paying higher taxes to the Government work for the main dealers? I mean seriously, why would they make the tax higher for themselves?

Johnboy Mac

ned78 wrote: »

And the award for silliest post goes to ...

How could paying higher taxes to the Government work for the main dealers? I mean seriously, why would they make the tax higher for themselves?

Think about it!

The motor distributor is only interested in the selling price of the car (less vrt & vat). The motor distributor nor the dealer pay the VRT or VAT on a new vehicle, the punter pays!

Owen

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Think about it!

Having worked in the trade for the last 7 years, I have.

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

The motor distributor is only interested in the selling price of the car (less vrt & vat). The motor distributor nor the dealer pay the VRT or VAT on a new vehicle, the punter pays!

Well, yes. But the Dealer is interested in selling cars and the price he shows to the customer includes VAT and VRT, so if he's campaigning to have the VRT increased based on ficticous OMSP's (Which is complete arse btw), surely he's going to put off people from enquiring?

There is no possible motivation for any Motor Dealer to do what you're suggesting, nor has any. You have an opinion, and that's fair enough, but please don't try to pass it off as fact when it's not.

Johnboy Mac

ned78 wrote: »

Having worked in the trade for the last 7 years, I have.



Well, yes. But the Dealer is interested in selling cars and the price he shows to the customer includes VAT and VRT, so if he's campaigning to have the VRT increased based on ficticous OMSP's (Which is complete arse btw), surely he's going to put off people from enquiring?

There is no possible motivation for any Motor Dealer to do what you're suggesting, nor has any. You have an opinion, and that's fair enough, but please don't try to pass it off as fact when it's not.

God this hard work!

The motor distributor is not campaigning to have the VRT or Vat increased.
They buy at X from the manufacturer, add on their profit margin thus the market price is set plus VRT and VAT. Simple.

Now going back to the OMSP on used cars, if the SIMI give the revenue higher valuations than the actual real life OMSP it increases the VRT a punter has to pay thus disencouraging the importation of cars from abroad with in turn gives the dealers a better slice of the used market and having less effect on car sales in general.
This is why OMSP the revenue use is at odds with the actual market price of used cars. That's how this thread started.

eman66

Ned, I don't know anything about this, so I'm asking! Would higher VRT not decrease competition from the UK. On the other hand, lower VRT would mean more sales but increase competition from the UK. In the real world which is best for dealers? What has been the industry's take on VRT, over the years?

Does the Irish motor trade have an input into the determination of the OMSP?

EDIT: Johnboy nipped in there.

Stephen

SIMI supplies the OMSP to the revenue, doesn't it?

Owen

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Now going back to the OMSP on used cars, if the SIMI give the revenue higher valuations than the actual real life OMSP it increases the VRT a punter has to pay thus disencouraging the importation of cars from abroad with in turn gives the dealers a better slice of the used market. This is why OMSP the revenue use is at odds with the actual market price of used cars.

No ... *sigh* the revenue is at odds with the actual market price of used cars because of the plunge in used values, and the devaluation of sterling. A few months back the OMSP's weren't too far away from RRPs.

eman66 wrote: »

Does the Irish motor trade have an input into the determination of the OMSP?

Depends on what you mean by Motor Trade. If you mean SIMI, who the hell knows or cares. They're completely out of touch, but if you mean individual garages, as far as I am aware, and from everything I've seen over the last 7 years, no.

Owen

And just to tease out this conspiracy theory ... if the Motor Trade were artificially keeping OMSP's high, why then is every garage in the country importing cars themselves?

Johnboy Mac

ned78 wrote: »

And just to tease out this conspiracy theory ... if the Motor Trade were artificially keeping OMSP's high, why then is every garage in the country importing cars themselves?

Have you not worked that one out yet? Do you need my 32 years experience in the trade to answer your question....................but then again why ask me as I post silly comments according to you.

kuro_man

ned78 wrote: »

And just to tease out this conspiracy theory ... if the Motor Trade were artificially keeping OMSP's high, why then is every garage in the country importing cars themselves?

Because it is not enough! With the VRT now on CO2 as low as 14% and the very low steling exchange rate, pre-08 cars will be difficult to shift.

I know the VRO in rosslare consults dealers on price. It is a conflict of interest, even if the dealer doesn't quote inflated prices. iI also know that the VRO has its own depreciation tables that it uses to dead-reckon car values from their new price (usually inaccurately).

A few months back the OMSP's weren't too far away from RRPs.

It's not good enough. OMSP's need to be updated frequently in line with market trends, otherwise it de facto protectionism and it's simple over-charging. Inflated OMSP's are explicitly illegal under EU rules.
It would be perfectly reasonable and easy to wipe 20 - 30% off the OMSPs across the board (based on the year/segment) but they haven't done it. And then they wonder why non-compliance is so high!

Owen

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Have you not worked that one out yet?

Obviously I haven't worked that one out at all. If as you say it's the Dealers jobs to keep OMSP's high, that means that if they import cars they're eager to sell, they too will have to advertise them at higher prices than they should because of higher VRT, and that makes no sense - scaring away potential customers from the stock they bought and paid for from the UK, only to have it depreciate on their forecourts. Makes perfect sense.

kuro_man wrote: »

I know the VRO in rosslare consults dealers on price.

The used to. I can't remember the last time I got a call from them TBH.

kuro_man wrote: »

It's not good enough. OMSP's need to be updated frequently

And I completely agree. By rectifying OMSP, it will be a win win situation for everyone. People will be able to import cars themselves cheaply, garages will also be able to do the same, and garages will benefit from the additional service and parts custom - even when someone didn't buy the car from them.

Unfortunately, because civil servants are working for the revenue, and because it's the revenue's job to make money, it's the revenue keeping the OMSP's high in the hopes that no one will contest it, not the Dealers - they don't get a penny from VRT.

But like all threads in the boards Motoring Forum, opinions are stated as fact, and Dealers are attacked with pitchforks and fire as per f*cking usual.

kuro_man

ned78 wrote: »

Unfortunately, because civil servants are working for the revenue, and because it's the revenue's job to make money, it's the revenue keeping the OMSP's high in the hopes that no one will contest it, not the Dealers - they don't get a penny from VRT.

How come we never see dealers/SIMI complaining about inflated OMSPs? They are always complaining about unregistered used cars, but I have never once heard one suggest that OMSP's should be more accurate.

Owen

kuro_man wrote: »

How come we never see dealers/SIMI complaining about inflated OMSPs? They are always complaining about unregistered used cars, but I have never once heard one suggest that OMSP's should be more accurate.

Well, I for one definitely wish the pricing was realigned.

Antrim_Man

Their pricing does not reflect real life and must be set to discourage importing.

Darsad

For new vehicles the OMSP is a figure declared to the revenue by the distributor and is the figure upon which VRT is calculated , however the OMSP already includes VRT and therefore the amount owing is calculated on a figure which already assumes its inclusion so a double tax in a way .

Antrim_Man

Darsad wrote: »

For new vehicles the OMSP is a figure declared to the revenue by the distributor and is the figure upon which VRT is calculated , however the OMSP already includes VRT and therefore the amount owing is calculated on a figure which already assumes its inclusion so a double tax in a way .

Good point.