pedigree bulls

wiggy123

hi...i am a pedigree angus breeder--and currently am feeding 3 angus bulls..for sale...later this spring or early summer!
i let them out to grass-Sunday pass...not a great cover on it-but i have given them a good bale of 2nd cut silage in a feeder for them also!
i was feeding them--about 6lb each of meal since they were weaned...meal was50/50 of (flake maize+a coarse ration mix(barley/beef nuts/corn gluten in it i think)and over the winter--silage i was given them was poor quality..know on them now! they are about averaging 350-400kg each at mo

i am going to up this to a stone of meal each to them and have done,since i let them!(feeding in one go)as i farm part time!
had a man(would be a gd cattle man) looking at them yesterday--said that much meal would stump them now--as they are just turning a year old @mo..said to give then half that each..i dosed them with curafluke+pour on norvomectin..before they went out-they are hairy+not the best looking at mo! not pampered-get me drift!

any ideas on feeding-what? to them,now..to get them shining+in gd, ie sale condition-if you get me drift!

i like the flake maize--has put a shine+beef on animals for me before..barley i do think runs through cattle..
don't want going over the top money wise in feed for them,so not interested in getting the corby rock range--to dear,etc..

any idea folks--what to give them+how much u'd feed them?
thanks!

reilig

wiggy123 wrote: »

hi...i am a pedigree angus breeder--and currently am feeding 3 angus bulls..for sale...later this spring or early summer!
i let them out to grass-Sunday pass...not a great cover on it-but i have given them a good bale of 2nd cut silage in a feeder for them also!
i was feeding them--about 6lb each of meal since they were weaned...meal was50/50 of (flake maize+a coarse ration mix(barley/beef nuts/corn gluten in it i think)and over the winter--silage i was given them was poor quality..know on them now! they are about averaging 350-400kg each at mo

i am going to up this to a stone of meal each to them and have done,since i let them!(feeding in one go)as i farm part time!
had a man(would be a gd cattle man) looking at them yesterday--said that much meal would stump them now--as they are just turning a year old @mo..said to give then half that each..i dosed them with curafluke+pour on norvomectin..before they went out-they are hairy+not the best looking at mo! not pampered-get me drift!

any ideas on feeding-what? to them,now..to get them shining+in gd, ie sale condition-if you get me drift!

i like the flake maize--has put a shine+beef on animals for me before..barley i do think runs through cattle..
don't want going over the top money wise in feed for them,so not interested in getting the corby rock range--to dear,etc..

any idea folks--what to give them+how much u'd feed them?
thanks!

Firstly, the fact that they are hairy and not lookin too well just now is a good thing. Normally if a calf was inside for the winter, he would be scratching and have bald patches. At least this way you can wash and brush your cattle to leave them looking well for selling.

I have no pedigree bull to sell this year, but I've had one or 2 every years for the past 5 years. 2 months before I sell them, I would start feeding them on "showcalf" or some other similar type of turbo feed recomended for pedigree cattle from your local co-op. The last time I bought it, I think it was called showcalf, but I haven't seen it for sale recently, so it may have changed name. It cost €11 per 25kg bag and is most likely increased in price by now. Buy anything cheaper and you won't get results - feeding this meal ad lib for 6 weeks will dramatically fill out your cattle, put those nice muscle ends on them (the ones that you see on all the nice pedigree cattle).

Personally, I'd give my bull as much of this feed as he will eat. I've never heard of too much meal stunting growth - at a year old you want to be putting condition on them, not having them grow taller. As I said, go to your local co-op and ask them what they sell for finishing pedigree cattle. Buy the most expensive stuff and watch them grow. Spend €500 on them over the next month and you will get far more than that back from selling them.

Other people may have different ideas, but this is my way.

wiggy123

thanks reilig

i don't want going over the top--ie to much money spent on them, like you wnat to make a few pound on them,etc.. as sold bulls last year from €1200-1500 just!

when u take cost of producing that animal,etc..adds up!

i know-farming will not leave any millionaires around-but like to be on the plus side now and again!

reilig--how much would you give them?recommend

will look into what you said anyway! cheers

reilig

wiggy123 wrote: »

how much would you give them?recommend

You want them in the best condition possible. Give them as much as they will eat of the best feed that you can buy. You will not save any money by buying a cheap ration for them at this stage. What you put into them, you will get back.

lancerwall

Have to agree with reilig, we used show-biz turbo about 6 weeks before we sold. Was just over €11 a bag but was definately worth it in the end.Also its best to try and give them good quaity hay also, as it helps them digest the meal better and in turn they will thrive better

reilig

lancerwall wrote: »

Have to agree with reilig, we used show-biz turbo about 6 weeks before we sold. Was just over €11 a bag but was definately worth it in the end.Also its best to try and give them good quaity hay also, as it helps them digest the meal better and in turn they will thrive better

That's the stuff, thanks Lancerwall!!

Bitten & Hisses

My vet has pedigree Limousins and says that he has had bulls eating up to 10Kg per day after being built up gradually on the ration!

leg wax

i would agree with lancerwall and reilig in putting a quality product in a animal,but the volume and price has to be taken into account.if the price of the animal that is going to be sold is only exspected to be around 1200 1500 euros asking he to put in 300 400 euros worth of meal is not going toleave much money it would be different if the selling price of the animal was a lot higher.i am certainly not a glanbia fan but they have a product called weanling crunch it comes in at 8 euros a bag and it blows the arses off my belgian blue cattle

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

i would agree with lancerwall and reilig in putting a quality product in a animal,but the volume and price has to be taken into account.if the price of the animal that is going to be sold is only exspected to be around 1200 1500 euros asking he to put in 300 400 euros worth of meal is not going toleave much money it would be different if the selling price of the animal was a lot higher.i am certainly not a glanbia fan but they have a product called weanling crunch it comes in at 8 euros a bag and it blows the arses off my belgian blue cattle

I find that any type of meal will do a great job on belgian blues because most are double muscle quality and they can convert the meal to muscle very easily in comparison to other breeds.

I have seen cases where an average €1200 bull has been fed into a €2000 bull by feeding show-biz turbo for the 6 to 8 week period leading up to the sale. It really blows them up and leaves hair and condition looking really well - your animal will be judged at a sale mostly by how the animal looks. Ordinary animal feeds just can't do what the show biz does for the final few weeks.

leg wax

reilig wrote: »

I find that any type of meal will do a great job on belgian blues because most are double muscle quality and they can convert the meal to muscle very easily in comparison to other breeds.

I have seen cases where an average €1200 bull has been fed into a €2000 bull by feeding show-biz turbo for the 6 to 8 week period leading up to the sale. It really blows them up and leaves hair and condition looking really well - your animal will be judged at a sale mostly by how the animal looks. Ordinary animal feeds just can't do what the show biz does for the final few weeks.

i am not disagreeing with you about show biz and what it can do,but i will disagree with your comment any meal,personaly i found that a cheap beef nut did not do the same job as in muscle and hair condition.

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

i am not disagreeing with you about show biz and what it can do,but i will disagree with your comment any meal,personaly i found that a cheap beef nut did not do the same job as in muscle and hair condition.

I do agree with you. Cheap feeds are generally a waste of time. I probably should have said "cheaper". With that I mean cheaper than the show biz - not the cheapest meal on the market. We all know that there are some seriously cheap meal mixtures on the market - some nearly cause cattle to lose condition over a winter rather than put it on

kfk

Who produces show biz turbo?

wiggy123

Have same issue this year!
3 Pedigree Angus bulls at mo..aiming to sell-end of may/june Sale...
2 are gone a year-other just 11mths...
are out all winter, getting silage+ ordinary Coarse ration(about 6lb each a day)
moved them to a bit of grass..(not an abundance of grass)were dosed..WHAT WOULD YOU GIVE THEM NOW???there not huge animals, told to give them growers, if so how much? stone a day?
or what mix would you use...maize??etc...any advice please??
thanks

Bitten & Hisses

Red Mills Pedigree No.3, give them as much as they can eat for 12 weeks minimum. the only problem is, it costs a bloody fortune.

reilig

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Red Mills Pedigree No.3, give them as much as they can eat for 12 weeks minimum. the only problem is, it costs a bloody fortune.

I wonder what's in the stuff ?? Would it be possible to buy the separate ingredients in 25kg or 50kg bags and do up a mix yourself?? Last time I fed the Showbiz turbo, I think that I recall that there was a lot of molasses in the stuff. Cattle love molasses, but its not great feeding. In the old days when there were no millers selling cattle feed, farmers used to "feed with oats and fatten with barley" that they grew themselves. I wonder does it still stand true??

vanderbadger

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Red Mills Pedigree No.3, give them as much as they can eat for 12 weeks minimum. the only problem is, it costs a bloody fortune.

4 bags of that stuff cost 34 euro in dan mcinerneys in ennis last weekend :eek:
and that included a discount of some few euro

Bitten & Hisses

reilig wrote: »

I wonder what's in the stuff ?? Would it be possible to buy the separate ingredients in 25kg or 50kg bags and do up a mix yourself?? Last time I fed the Showbiz turbo, I think that I recall that there was a lot of molasses in the stuff. Cattle love molasses, but its not great feeding. In the old days when there were no millers selling cattle feed, farmers used to "feed with oats and fatten with barley" that they grew themselves. I wonder does it still stand true??

I don't recall exactly what the ingredients are, but I'll see if I have a bag somewhere at home with the label still on it. Last year, it was costing up to €10 for a 25 Kg bag in some places. I know I gave around a tonne of it to a bull last year, but I was well paid for it when I sold him.

ellewood

showbiz works very well on my charolais bulls last few years am trying red mills no. 3 this year the showbis was around 440.00 a ton last year and the red mills is 330.00/ton so if its as good? i wont know for a month or so the showbiz really is the rolls royce and is super feed to finish bulls a bit pricey thou

pmct

Is showbiz the same as showbiz turbo from greenvale

ellewood

yea same stuff its rocket fuel for em

wiggy123

very good..must check that stuff out..or get a some..and maybe check teh ingredients and make up some myself..
as don't wnat spending a fortune! there Ped angus bulls...so most i think,if done well i'd get is maybe €1500 avg...see!

djmc

I heard from a vet Fluke is bad this year cos of weather and these all in one doses are not covering it.

deglance

i use the contintal beef finisher out of liffey mills its about 5.50 a bag give it to my highlands an it really improved them, i use to use the oneils finisher but it was like dust compared to the liffey mills one

Indubitable

wiggy123 wrote: »

very good..must check that stuff out..or get a some..and maybe check teh ingredients and make up some myself..
as don't wnat spending a fortune! there Ped angus bulls...so most i think,if done well i'd get is maybe €1500 avg...see!

If you find out the ingredients, would you mind telling me what they are? I would be very interested in getting something made up because at that price it would not be worth it for me

wiggy123

same here..would make up my own, as be cheaper that likes of corby rock/red mills pedigree stuff

deglance

hey all it say is 60% made up of wheat, barley, field beans

i think if its bought in a ton or half ton bag delivery is free not sure but i know a ton is a lot of money to be handing out for, there site only has contact number and email so if u interested

http://www.liffeymills.ie/


hope it helps am can i ask ya question bout the angus what are they like in general was thinking of gettin one or two the end of the summer

wiggy123

angus...there bad in prices at mo...a good angus bull(good pedigree)--get him for €2000+ at mo!
country seems to be full of them,breeders at mo!
also getting a bad rep,as dairy men are looking for replacement stock--so go friesan!also using hereford..as they seem to be coming,easier calvers!
angus bull has gotten maybe to big-height wise, too much canadian influence,some are like a black limousin..
then some bulls--are getting to muscley! leading to hard calvings.. hard to get the right bull maybe,depends what bein used for...

i find(pedigree terms)the cows pop the calves out easily--maybe too quick,there up and sucking within minutes..and are hardy!also will kill out faster than other breeds..thats only my opinion!!

Indubitable

deglance wrote: »

hey all it say is 60% made up of wheat, barley, field beans

i think if its bought in a ton or half ton bag delivery is free not sure but i know a ton is a lot of money to be handing out for, there site only has contact number and email so if u interested

http://www.liffeymills.ie/

I presume that is the liffeymills pedigree no.3 meal your talking about?
I was looking for the show-biz turbo ingredients but perhaps i can feed pedigree 3 before the showbiz

whelan1

wiggy123 wrote: »

angus...there bad in prices at mo...a good angus bull(good pedigree)--get him for €2000+ at mo!
country seems to be full of them,breeders at mo!
also getting a bad rep,as dairy men are looking for replacement stock--so go friesan!also using hereford..as they seem to be coming,easier calvers!
angus bull has gotten maybe to big-height wise, too much canadian influence,some are like a black limousin..
then some bulls--are getting to muscley! leading to hard calvings.. hard to get the right bull maybe,depends what bein used for...

i find(pedigree terms)the cows pop the calves out easily--maybe too quick,there up and sucking within minutes..and are hardy!also will kill out faster than other breeds..thats only my opinion!!

i have a serious amount of buyers looking for angus calves this year -out of fr cows - could sell each calf 4 times over so angus are still popular... some of them have been coming to me for the last 6 years:rolleyes:

wiggy123

thats good to see..
there a calve,that never looks back!

Indubitable

Would anyone happen to have a bag of show-biz turbo lying around so I can get the ingredients?

Bitten & Hisses

Ingredients information printed on the bag for Pedigree No.3:


Barley Flakes (steam cooked)
Maize flakes (micronised)
Cane molasses
Distillers dried grain
Unmolassed beet pulp
rape seed extract
Micronised bean flakes
Citrus pulp
Soyabean extracted toasted
Soyabean hulls
Soyabean flakes (steam cooked)
Calcium Carbonate
Sodium Chloride
Mono Dicalcium Phosphate
Mineral/vitamin premix
Soya oil

All steam cooked. Formulation details and feeding guidelines available on request.

PMU

whelan1 wrote: »

i have a serious amount of buyers looking for angus calves this year -out of fr cows - could sell each calf 4 times over so angus are still popular... some of them have been coming to me for the last 6 years:rolleyes:

What kind of money are they? I had a dealer in the yard this evening
asking about my angus calves.
p.s. I use redmills "calf and bull "ration for the calves ; excellent!
pat

whelan1

150 for bulls 2 weeks old and 130 for heifers;)

PMU

whelan1 wrote: »

150 for bulls 2 weeks old and 130 for heifers;)

Good stuff, thanks for the prompt reply. pat

Muckit

Lads

I resurrected this tread, hope ye don't mind!

I know sweet FA about feeding large quantites of meal to cattle, but seeing as I'm getting more into my little 'hobby' of rearing the odd PB CH bull, tis time to get myself up to speed...rappa! I want to do a good job on them, but don't want to literally kill them with kindness!! Meal will be fed through a hopper fed meal trough (feed level can be adjusted).

So...

I'm planning on showbiz turbo for the last 8 weeks or so, but ....

1. What kind of ration would be suitable from now (7.5mths old) until then? I can get a Grennan's '5-way mix' for €250/tonne. it's 15%protein and very high in energy (sorry don't have exact figure!)
2. Is there need to add an acid buffer? Was talking to a lad today that sells it. Can't think of name... it's in a white 20kg bag.
3. Is good wheaten straw ok to feed as roughage? I don't have hay! Have excellent quality silage.... should this be included in dietl?

So come on expert animal nuitritionalists... send forth your wisdom!!

Thanks

Muckit

Muckit

Just did a bit of googling and found this interesting article

http://www.dardni.gov.uk/ruralni/index/publications/press_articles/beef_and_sheep/archive-6/high-concentrate-diets.htm

I think it gives good pointers.

farmer2018

Lads, do ye find feeding bulls too much ration before a sale gives them a big gut?

wiggy123

plenty exercise is needed for them!
mine wintered outdoors, go do be grand +have plenty hair.. and ready to work always

Hard Knocks

How often would you change the meal?