McMillan -- Marathon Long Run

shels4ever

Just wondered what peoples views are on the McMillan school of thinking for the Marathon long run, In regards to the aspect of a low carb intake prior and during your long runs(LSD not pechams preditor runs ...

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/rununiv/marathonlongrun.htm

Cheers.

Stupid_Private

I think you'd want to be very confident in your running ability to start doing this. He says himself that it's his idea and there are no studies to prove whether or not it works.

If I was to try this approach for the first time I wouldn't try it on anything longer than 15 miles. I'd chose 15 miles as this is the usual distance I do week in week out on a Sunday, marathon training or not marathon training, so I feel quite comfortable at that distance at a relaxed pace. I know I have done gone without carbs before or during a run before but that was more because of circumstance rather than choice.

At the moment in marathon training I like to come out of my long runs feeling confident. As the long runs are getting longer I wouldn't risk it. They're the most important training session so I do everything possible at the moment to make sure they go well for me. I eat a large pasta or rice dinner the night before, I get a lie in in the morning, have porridge and toast a couple of hours before going out, leave water along my route, and take a gel or two on the way.

Non marathon training I wouldn't be too concerned about my dinner the night before and I wouldn't bother with water or gel. I'd probably take the lie in rather than trying to get out at 9 for my run, but that's more a laziness thing than anything else.

--amadeus--

It's something I do and have done for a few races now. I don't worry so much about the low carb before but I do run un fuelled, anything up to 21 -22 miles.

It's tough. My pace goes from 7:45ish to 8 and even 9 min miles (with steady HR) at around the 18 mile mark. On occasion I have even slowed down to 10 min miles at the very end of longer runs and you feel mentally stressed by it as well - it gets harder to work out splits for example.

I work it on the basis that it can't do me any harm and probably does me lots of good. However - just after the last LSR of the program - Tunney mentioned that the unfuelled LSR idea had been discredited and it may actually delay recovery. I didn't get a chance to follow it up with him but I'd be interested in hearing from him on it here.

Despite following this approach I still fade at the end of marathons but then everyone does. I have never felt a "kick" from a gel or drink anyway so I don't see any changes there. I suppose the question is would I fade faster if I hadn't run long without carbs? And mentally it's helped - I know I can tough it out when it's hard.

Very much a technique for an experienced runner though - you'd want to have a few marathons under your belt and know your body and it's warning signs pretty well before attempting something like this.

shels4ever

--amadeus-- wrote: »

It's something I do and have done for a few races now. I don't worry so much about the low carb before but I do run un fuelled, anything up to 21 -22 miles.

It's tough. My pace goes from 7:45ish to 8 and even 9 min miles (with steady HR) at around the 18 mile mark. On occasion I have even slowed down to 10 min miles at the very end of longer runs and you feel mentally stressed by it as well - it gets harder to work out splits for example.

I work it on the basis that it can't do me any harm and probably does me lots of good. However - just after the last LSR of the program - Tunney mentioned that the unfuelled LSR idea had been discredited and it may actually delay recovery. I didn't get a chance to follow it up with him but I'd be interested in hearing from him on it here.

Despite following this approach I still fade at the end of marathons but then everyone does. I have never felt a "kick" from a gel or drink anyway so I don't see any changes there. I suppose the question is would I fade faster if I hadn't run long without carbs? And mentally it's helped - I know I can tough it out when it's hard.

Very much a technique for an experienced runner though - you'd want to have a few marathons under your belt and know your body and it's warning signs pretty well before attempting something like this.

I know what you mean, I've been reading up on it for the past while and have done 12,13,15 miles with just water but propper food the night before .

Last weekends 16 I had carb drink and Gel with my just in case but only took the carb drink at 14 miles and felt a major boost from it at this stage. I was jsut curious if there are dangers in this method other then falling apart on a long run?

TFBubendorfer

I do most of my long runs with just water. Last week I ran 23 miles, but at a rather slow pace (8:30ish for the first 13+ , 7:45 for the rest). I had some water after 17 miles, that was it.

Years ago I used to eat breakfast before a run, and I took a gel at 10 miles if I ran 15 or more. Then I followed McMillan's guidelines, and guess what? I hardly noticed a difference.

I still take a gel if I want to ran faster (e.g the last few miles at or close to marathon effort), but like amadeus I have never ever felt a "kick", and I wonder how much good those things really do.

shels4ever

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I do most of my long runs with just water. Last week I ran 23 miles, but at a rather slow pace (8:30ish for the first 13+ , 7:45 for the rest). I had some water after 17 miles, that was it.

Years ago I used to eat breakfast before a run, and I took a gel at 10 miles if I ran 15 or more. Then I followed McMillan's guidelines, and guess what? I hardly noticed a difference.

I still take a gel if I want to ran faster (e.g the last few miles at or close to marathon effort), but like amadeus I have never ever felt a "kick", and I wonder how much good those things really do.

Only water at 17 wow I couldnt manage that, in my long runs i'm sipping water from about 5-6 miles...

RJC

I really think the long carbless run is a good idea for mental strength. It allows you to see what the world is like when you don't have enough sugar for your brain and your legs (like the end of the marathon) - but it is a fine line because it can mean your recovery from the run is delayed. If you are horsing in the miles you run the risk of fatigue or injury. I'm sure it's good for fat metabolism as well but unless your running slow in ultras I don't see much point.

Milesandmiles

Martin Fagan is working really well with Greg but carbless long runs are not for me.

I've not got a lot in the way of fat to burn. I would be afraid that I'd be eating into my protein. Unlike Amadeus I get a great kick from gels and I've a strong stomach so I'm always able to take carbs on board while I'm training or racing. I've been to the point where I want to start chomping grass my sugars are so low and it's not a pleasant place to be.

In terms of improving your mental strength, I wouldn't risk my post session recovery to make that gain. I'm tough enough already