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Eamon Gilmore's Speech

  • 29-03-2009 12:59am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭


    I was impressed overall. He said all the right things and it's great to see a third rate of tax. Looking forward to their pre-budget submission.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭iguy


    I was also impressed,he gave a very strong speech,also looking forward to hearing what his proposals are for the budget.....except to me though,i think everytime the people applaused he did'nt like it because he was being interrupted!.....also seen on the 9'o clock news fianna fail got 5 points in some sort of opinion poll.....which i was hoping would.nt happen!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭MoominPapa


    Hes a natural alright, the way he segwayed from the ad lib at the start to the beginning of the speech proper was effortless although I found the rousing call to arms at the end not very, well, rousing.

    Dying to see how they propose to introduce a third rate of income tax mid year...

    See the speech in full here (I couldn't get it working on rte for some reason)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    I didnt see this on the telly. Was it on?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    I was there.

    He did a brilliant job, I agreed with what he said; third tax band, lowering days for tax exiles etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    There already is an effective third rate of tax - the income levy.

    Th percentage rises as income rises.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    He did a brilliant job, I agreed with what he said; third tax band, lowering days for tax exiles etc.


    Isn't this already being done/discussed by FF though? Where's the "other road"? Where're the new proposals? The third tax rate is nothing new, neither would be a reduction of days for tax exiles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Wasnt really that good. It didn't really offer much.

    FF have been in power too long and let Ireland grow too quickly - they really messed up by not starting to build infrastructure before the boom when wages and costs were lower (what Poland is doing now). FG has Enda Kenny as its leader (enough of a reason not to vote for FG). Eamon Gilmore seems OK and is probably the best of the bad bunch but can Labour really get enough seats to take power? I doubt it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭Driseog


    This post has been deleted.

    Thats exactly the type of country we've been living in for the past 20 years and look where that got us. Make as much money as you can and screw as many people along the way as possible. "Unfettered by the shackles of society"? Sounds like you should go to Sealand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dave-higgz wrote: »
    I was impressed overall. He said all the right things and it's great to see a third rate of tax. Looking forward to their pre-budget submission.

    All well and good, but unless its agreed in a pre-election pact with FG, its doubtful if any of it will come to pass.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    This post has been deleted.

    So, climb on the backs of the working class to ensure you can bathe yourself in bank notes? Yeah, no thanks to the likes of you in our society. It's greed that has destroyed this country. Perhaps the US would be more suitable for you.

    PS: Does anyone have a transcript of the speech? I'm in college, so no sound to watch the video.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    This post has been deleted.

    I never stated that you were, but a society dictated by your mindframe would result in the working class suffering.
    This post has been deleted.

    New VISA deal under works between the US and Ireland. Maybe you'll take advantage of it, should the climate permit it.
    This post has been deleted.

    Sound, thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    This post has been deleted.

    I'm sorry, but those who climb to the top - do so at great expense to others. It's been documented time and time again throughout history.
    This post has been deleted.

    Happy days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭population


    This post has been deleted.

    Why does any notion of the state having a role to play always come back to Stalin???

    He was a lunatic butchering murderer. Everybody knows this

    Socialists know this, even Communists know it for frig sake!!!

    Socially responsible actions lead to decent functioning economies. See Scandinavia. (No not Iceland!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    nesf wrote: »
    Isn't this already being done/discussed by FF though? Where's the "other road"? Where're the new proposals? The third tax rate is nothing new, neither would be a reduction of days for tax exiles.

    Ah but can they do it with such panache:D

    I agreed with what he said, the above were what I considered to be the most large scale changes, but I also liked what he said in relation to an Earn and LEarn scheme, PRSI cuts and the use of unemployed teachers and lawyers as assistants.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    Is anyone else worried that Labour are calling for a 'New Deal' for Ireland...? :eek:

    It was a standard rebel rousing speech, pandering to the 'average working person' - it's what we've come to expect now. Instead of trotting out the worn-out rhetoric of corrupt developers and crony capitalists, I'd like to see Gilmore genuinely explain the financial crisis and detail what Labour would do to that Fianna Fáil didn't do - because all I see being offered is a different shade of gray. Curiously, nothing in Labour's 2007 election manifesto seems to suggest a looming financial crisis - did they think the fundamentals of our economy were sound?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    This post has been deleted.

    Worryingly, it's explicitly stated on their website: http://www.labour.ie. 'a New Deal for Ireland'. :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    This post has been deleted.

    I agree that the New Deal made the depression worse in the 30's but by the 40's it made it better, thanks partially to a world war. I think we need a 'New Deal' though, just not the type of 'New Deal' in the 30's, which as you suggest is overhyped for its importance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Ah but can they do it with such panache:D

    See that's the thing for me. He's an excellent speaker and his style of oratory matches the times very well. He hasn't impressed me as a man with new ideas though. Whenever I listen to him speak I hear similar ideas to what's already being tried by the other parties.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    This post has been deleted.

    You really were there for a good while, weren't ye...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Ah but can they do it with such panache:D

    I agreed with what he said, the above were what I considered to be the most large scale changes, but I also liked what he said in relation to an Earn and LEarn scheme, PRSI cuts and the use of unemployed teachers and lawyers as assistants.

    I also acknowledge he has excellent leader skills but that is not really important when there is an economic crisis going on. We as a nation need to see what proposals each party need to bring to the table. I will only judge each one on this. We should see these budget proposals in the next week or so I presume?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    tech2 wrote: »
    I also acknowledge he has excellent leader skills but that is not really important when there is an economic crisis going on. We as a nation need to see what proposals each party need to bring to the table. I will only judge each one on this. We should see these budget proposals in the next week or so I presume?
    Well, he's the party leader, leadership skills are what he needs. The financial aspect is more for Joan Burton.

    Labour's mini-budget is coming out very soon.
    nesf wrote: »
    See that's the thing for me. He's an excellent speaker and his style of oratory matches the times very well. He hasn't impressed me as a man with new ideas though. Whenever I listen to him speak I hear similar ideas to what's already being tried by the other parties.
    Are FF and FG offering the same points?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Are FF and FG offering the same points?

    Similar enough on the big ideas when they get into details, a third tax band et al. It's not that they're copying each other or anything, they just all seem to be working off the same page so to speak.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Well, he's the party leader, leadership skills are what he needs. The financial aspect is more for Joan Burton.

    Labour's mini-budget is coming out very soon.

    I understand that but Im pointing out that is all Labour seem to be offering at this moment in time: leadership skills. Joan Burton hasnt mentioned any proposels of what Im aware of. She bypasses many questions being forced at her by the media IMO.

    A few little taxes here and there wont sort out the economy. What about the VAT on goods it is way too high. They havnt focus enough on cross-border shopping its affecting several towns withim 200km of the north. They havnt mentioned anything about social welfare?

    A third rate of tax isint going to solve the crisis. The way Gilmore pointed it out was that they came up with such a bright idea you would swear no other party pointed it out. They didnt. We need a serious budget that will get this countrys finances back under control.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    tech2 wrote: »
    I understand that but Im pointing out that is all Labour seem to be offering at this moment in time: leadership skills. Joan Burton hasnt mentioned any proposels of what Im aware of. She bypasses many questions being forced at her by the media IMO.
    Really? I've been watching her on TV and she seems to be grand at fighting her corner.
    tech2 wrote: »
    A few little taxes here and there wont sort out the economy. What about the VAT on goods it is way too high. They havnt focus enough on cross-border shopping its affecting several towns withim 200km of the north. They havnt mentioned anything about social welfare?
    Actually, Gilmore has called for a temporary reduction in VAT.

    He also referred to welfare by getting people off it; earn and learn, retraining and re-education,
    tech2 wrote: »
    A third rate of tax isint going to solve the crisis. The way Gilmore pointed it out was that they came up with such a bright idea you would swear no other party pointed it out. They didnt. We need a serious budget that will get this countrys finances back under control.
    ?
    He brought it forward, I didn't see him act like it was some magic formula.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    nesf wrote: »
    Similar enough on the big ideas when they get into details, a third tax band et al. It's not that they're copying each other or anything, they just all seem to be working off the same page so to speak.

    Are there any other large similarities aside from the third tax band?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Are there any other large similarities aside from the third tax band?

    With FF there's a large similarity with the talking down of the size of the public service as a problem. Gilmore argues that our problem is solely that of people losing jobs, not the expenditure side of the budget etc.

    The difference with FF will come in that FF need to put together a budget, not just a pre-Budget statement. So FF will be forced to trim expenditure whether they like it or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    nesf wrote: »
    With FF there's a large similarity with the talking down of the size of the public service as a problem. Gilmore argues that our problem is solely that of people losing jobs, not the expenditure side of the budget etc.

    The difference with FF will come in that FF need to put together a budget, not just a pre-Budget statement. So FF will be forced to trim expenditure whether they like it or not.

    Gilmore was saying that the way to fix the public finances is by incentivising working. As it is, some of the speakers made the point that many people are better off on the dole.

    He also said that difficult choices would have to be made regarding expenditure and taxes, I'd say some trimming of public spending is heavily implied there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Really? I've been watching her on TV and she seems to be grand at fighting her corner. .

    She hasnt quite convinced me yet that she is able to handle to public finances thus far. The proposels for the mini budget might convince me to reconsider.
    Actually, Gilmore has called for a temporary reduction in VAT.

    He also referred to welfare by getting people off it; earn and learn, retraining and re-education.

    Getting people off the social welfare is great but the idea to implement it, is the problem. If Gilmore calls for some kind of reduction in VAT im all for that. Im looking forward to seeing the proposals from all parties to see what they would do in terms of expenditure and also focus on job creation.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    tech2 wrote: »
    She hasnt quite convinced me yet that she is able to handle to public finances thus far. The proposels for the mini budget might convince me to reconsider.
    Fair enough, that's your call.

    AFAIK, Labour is swamped doing the minibudget, I'm also looking forward to seeing it.
    tech2 wrote: »
    Getting people off the social welfare is great but the idea to implement it, is the problem. If Gilmore calls for some kind of reduction in VAT im all for that. Im looking forward to seeing the proposals from all parties to see what they would do in terms of expenditure and also focus on job creation.
    I'd say a VAT reduction makes sense;
    increases purchasing power, hopefully more consumer spending, more money in the economy etc.

    As far as getting people off social welfare, I'd say there are ways to achieve this. Labour in Mayo is fighting for the N5 road to the West, I forget the exact cost (can dig it out when I get home), but it;s meant to have a lot of benefits in reducing wear and tear in consumer products such as the Coke factory in Ballina. Would also include jobs while it's being built.
    The Earn and Learn scheme is meant to work rather well, while giving teachers jobs as assistants/lawyers in legal aid centers would increase social utility while giving them the all important experience for getting a job. I'd say these would indeed help those get off social welfare


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭DadaKopf


    This post has been deleted.
    So you're saying the exception proves the rule. Straw man, etc., etc.
    I'd say a VAT reduction makes sense;
    increases purchasing power, hopefully more consumer spending, more money in the economy etc.
    I just wonder if FF is going to put some level of VAT on food while decreasing general VAT a little and increasing it on smokes and booze. At the weekend, I heard one ICTU economist suggesting we put VAT on food.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    DadaKopf wrote: »
    At the weekend, I heard one ICTU economist suggesting we put VAT on food.

    An ICTU economist actually suggesting taking away the zero rate on food? :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    This post has been deleted.

    Nordic models aside, the reduced VAT rates on food etc are what make the tax tend towards being more progressive rather than regressive (food bills form a huge proportion of the household budget for the very poor etc).

    I find it extremely surprising that ICTU is suggesting making VAT less progressive.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭DadaKopf


    nesf wrote: »
    Nordic models aside, the reduced VAT rates on food etc are what make the tax tend towards being more progressive rather than regressive (food bills form a huge proportion of the household budget for the very poor etc).

    I find it extremely surprising that ICTU is suggesting making VAT less progressive.
    This is was was strange about it. He said that VAT is regressive in that consumption taxes disproportionately fall on the less well-off. At the same time, VAT on food would make VAT more progressive.

    If this is what I heard, I'm very confused.


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