Digging up and relaying concrete floor.

Kashkai

I've got a major water leak under the floor that appears to be a hot water leak as the floor gets very warm under the dark stain patch.

Now I've phoned several plumbers but naturally enough they won't give me an exact price as they don't know how bad the damage is or how much work will be involved in fixing it. However, I'm not in a position to be writing blank cheques for anyone so I want to have a go at this myself.

Now the questions are:

1. Will a hammer and chisel be enough to break up the floor where I suspect the problem is or will a kango hammer be necessary. I'm worried that hammering away at the floor with a kango will cause more damage and so I'd prefer the hammer and chisel approach.

2. How would I go about reinstating the floor once the problem is solved? If I just fill in with concrete, then won't this settle and shrink and so I'll be left with a floating lump of concrete thats not level with the rest of the floor and is not joined to the rest of the floor after it dries and shrinks?

Finally, some people might think this is a duplicate of a thread I posted a few months ago about a leak under my floor but its not - its another leak thats bigger and wetter than the last one. My plumber who was involved in the original build obviously thought the purpose of a domestic central heating system was to act like a garden sprinkler due to the countless leaks, burst pipes etc that I've encounterd.

Davy

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Now the questions are:

1. Will a hammer and chisel be enough to break up the floor where I suspect the problem is or will a kango hammer be necessary. I'm worried that hammering away at the floor with a kango will cause more damage and so I'd prefer the hammer and chisel approach.

If its a concrete floor i would get a kango. If its only a screed on the top a hammer and chisel would do.

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

2. How would I go about reinstating the floor once the problem is solved? If I just fill in with concrete, then won't this settle and shrink and so I'll be left with a floating lump of concrete thats not level with the rest of the floor and is not joined to the rest of the floor after it dries and shrinks?

How big of an area are you talking about? Use a float/towel to give it an even finish. You could allow for a small screed on the top after to give a perfect finish it your worried about the concrete.

Carlow52

to minimize the dust etc, consider renting a water cooled concrete cutter: eg Con saw or the ones used by the sparks for cutting chases.

this will mean that the 'kangoing' will be more focussed and easier to do

Davy

The consaw makes a good idea, the only thing is to be careful with the depth, you don't want to make another leak

Builderfromhell

If it's a recently built house then you could be looking at 4 to 6 inches of concrete which may be re-inforced. Hire a heavy duty breaker and you'll eventually get fllor open.

I wouldn't use a Con saw as the fumes will go all over the house and if you use water hose to supress dut you'll have water all over your floor. In any event you'll still get dust.
You risk cutting other pipes.

On older house a sledge hammer is best as concrete will break up in handy chunks. Some older floors have very soft concrete as thin as 2 inches.

Good luck. ANd can you PM me your plumbers details. I'm looking for a water feature in my Kitchen:pac:

slavetothegrind

Sorry to hear more grief there dave.

When you start kangoing dust will rise so be generous with dust sheets in that room and tape off the doors out of it. Window open and don't forget the PPE!

If he was that bad maybe he didn't tie down the pipes so they are floating near the surface so go easy....best of luck

Poor Uncle Tom

How old is the floor/screed?
Have you house insurance?
What kind of piping is it copper/pex?
Is it a leak at a joint or is it corrosion?

IMO, You need to expose the area, and be careful of the DPM/radon barrier, try not to puncture it. Any plumber should be able to give you a price when the problem is exposed. If this is happening for a long time, the concrete will be easier to get through.

Kashkai

Tbh, haven't a clue how thick the floor is where the leak is but I suspect its only a couple of inches (at most) of concrete as there is a hollow noise when I tap the floor where the leak apparently is. I know it could be leaking elsewhere and following the pipes to this point but due to the fan shaped pattern stain above the leak, I'm fairly sure I have the right area marked out.

My main fear is one expressed above in that if the pipes are just below the surface, hammering away at the concrete above them will cause more damage. I've already seen how cheap push/fit connectors where used in a lot of above ground joints (some of which leaked, i.e. spewed water out) and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the problem below ground.

I do have house insurance but there is an excess of €500 on it so its hardly worth making a claim when I'll be paying most of the bill anyway. However some guy I know told me about a loss adjustor he used once called John C...... who assesses the damage and deals with the insurance company and thus I'd be spared the grief but I can't find any contact details for him.

The plumber used a mix of copper and qualplex in the house piping and I suspect that as the pipes are only 18 months old, it is definitely a leak. I've had this part of the floor exposed for 2 months now when the timber flooring above it started to buckle and as it hasn't dried out (in fact its getting worse), I know its an ongoing problem and not something minor like one of my kids spilled water and didn't tell Daddy for obvious reasons!

De_man

i wouldn't use a consaw now at this stage to cut the channel out, you'll
destroy the whole place.

might sound obvious but drain your heating system fully, (just in case)
i assume it's a radiator line....was it connected in daisy chain or star format?
(i assume it's daisy chain)

Seal the area as best you can with old curtains etc....get a detergent bottle with spray head,,,lightly spray water on area to be kangoed, use the kango on a low setting and follow through then with a hammer & chisel, expose
a section of the pipe that'll give you your pipe depth.

taking care, you shouldn't break a pipe as most likely they'll be wrapped in insulation & covered?

when this is sorted to get you're peace of mind i'd recommend you do another pressure test on your entire plumbing system to see if that genius made any more mistakes

best of luck

muffler

Your pipes are most likely just below the screed (I wouldnt see any reason to have them elsewhere) so you would be looking at a depth of around 70 - 100mm