Opinions on 'daddy style' Estate

Boskowski

Hi All,

although I'm not actually a 'daddy' I'm looking at cars that suit the stage of life I'm in. Means something that has plenty of room to dump all my stuff in, suitable for hauling the missus and the doggy around in style but still has a bit of oompf while being somewhat economical and an overall nice car.

So I arrived at these two that I really like, BMW 3 series diesel estate or Merc C-class diesel estate.

Something like this, not necessarily the very ones here but along the of lines it.

BMW:

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+3+SERIES/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-24-51-55-63-240-4294967019-4294967078/advert.action?R=200912330719060&distance=103&postcode=LL65+1YB&channel=CARS&make=BMW&model=3+SERIES&min_pr=&max_pr=10000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2004&vehicleRegLetter=53

or even a little bit stronger (would love this one)

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+3+SERIES/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-24-51-55-63-240-4294967019-4294967078/advert.action?R=200839319441629&distance=198&postcode=LL65+1YB&channel=CARS&make=BMW&model=3+SERIES&min_pr=&max_pr=10000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=&vehicleRegLetter=Y

Merc:

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/MERCEDES-BENZ+C+CLASS/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-24-51-55-63-191-240-4294966254-4294967227/advert.action?R=200902326660005&distance=83&postcode=LL65+1YB&channel=CARS&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&model=C+CLASS&min_pr=&max_pr=10000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2003&vehicleRegLetter=03

They're similar enough in price and everything, so what would you go for?

CharlieCroker

If anyone remembers, TopGear mag had a long term Mondeo estate on test last year. Black, with tinted windows and the sports pack including 20" wheels. The thing looked evil. That would be my choice. I'm not married, no kids and no dog and I'd still love it for myself.

peasant

My choice:

cantdecide

When I was 24, I had a '98 A4 Avant Quattro Sport on 18s- it had a subtle but effective boot spoiler. It looked nuts. Don't think for a sec that because it's an estate it loses it's street cred one jot...

Choose the right car in the right spec and you'll have a head turner...

Eoin

cantdecide wrote: »

Don't think for a sec that because it's an estate it loses it's street cred one jot....

Sadly, I don't think that's true in Ireland, but I agree there are loads of nice ones out there.

Alfa 156 sportwagon


BMW e39 touring


Both very ugly, but very capable:
Subaru Legacy Wagon


And in before Anan1, the Forester:

sk8board

neither the 3-series nor c-class load capacity is really much bigger than the saloon; The 9-5 or V70 would be a different league, perhaps the Accord too.

The Accord has the good 2.2 diesel, but the 9-5 has the older 2.2 GM unit; the 150hp 1.9 is much much better.
If you don't want 'huge' load capacity, what about this '06 (!) 9-3 Vector sport 150bhp for £7k
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=&hassearched=Y&make=SAAB&min_pr=75&source=0&model=9-3&max_pr=&miles=60&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=sw19+3rq&variant=&bodyid=3&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=28&ukcarsearch_full.y=4&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=7&distance=58&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200912330665241

what it lacks in being a Saab (if you're not a Saab/volvo-type person), it makes up for in spades with the engine and massive spec, esp over the bmw and merc


EDIT: heres a fully loaded '07 one for £9k list:
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=SAAB&min_pr=75&source=0&model=9-3&max_pr=&miles=60&agerange=5&mileage=5&postcode=sw19+3rq&variant=&bodyid=3&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=vector&ukcarsearch_full.x=46&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=8&distance=50&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200912330930129

L-M

If you could get the facelifted 3 series (04 I think?) I think it would much look better. I don't think that 3 series has dated well at all.

That C class looks like the local undertakers thingy, nice though.

DanGerMus

The mercs estates just look too much like an afterthought for my liking it doesn't fit in with the shape of the rest of the car, just plonked on there. The 3 series is much nicer but neither come close to the Audi a4 and a6 Avants imo. That Saab Sk8 linked looks lovely i can imagine you get great value on them too. Go for a 335D 3series if you can Monsters with great mileage if it's a Bimmer you want that is.

Boskowski

I have to admit my favorite is the Bimmer alright. The Saab has a nice spec and a good price tag for that but the look of it including the interior wouldn't appeal to me at all. The Mondeo I googled and I have to say it's kinda cool but it's a Mondeo no matter what you do with it.

The Subaru Legacy was always regarded as a bit of a dark horse by me, always liked it.

What do people think of the Mercedes CDI engines compared to the BMW diesels? Any experience with regards to power and fuel consumption? Mercedes diesel engines go back a long way and had a reputation of being invincible but especially the c-class is known not to have preserved much of that.

Matt Simis

Some of those suggestions are way off (:P) for the criteria: Street cred and performance in an estate form factor, its the exact design goal of the Audi S4 Avant:

Little bit more pricey though.

I do rather like our Audi allroad, 2.7 BiTurbo too.

Boskowski

Matt Simis wrote: »

Some of those suggestions are way off (:P) for the criteria: Street cred and performance in an estate form factor, its the exact design goal of the Audi S4 Avant:

I do rather like our Audi allroad, 2.7 BiTurbo too.

Street cred is something I wouldn't be overly concerned with and while it certainly is a nice car there is nothing 'economical' about it (15 mpg city, 21 highway). Might as well go for the AMG e-class Merc. Lovely but out of the question, unfortunately.

Edit: The 330d Bimmer does over 40mpg on highways....

Lex Luthor

How big is your dog?

To be honest I would think if the dog is a big one and you lug around a lot of stuff anything like a 3 series, 156, A4 size is probably a bit on the small size.

The new Mondeo estate is like a big open space in there and looks good too.

A6, E39 5 series, Honda Accord, Jag X Type, Merc E class, Saab 95 & Volvo V70 would all be the big estate choices....

The Vectra is also not to be sniffed at. The estate is not the worst looking I've seen and its very roomy in the boot. Plenty 150bhp diesels in the UK to choose from and a lot cheaper than the others I've mentioned

Matt Simis

realcam wrote: »

Street cred is something I wouldn't be overly concerned with and while it certainly is a nice car there is nothing 'economical' about it (15 mpg city, 21 highway). Might as well go for the AMG e-class Merc. Lovely but out of the question, unfortunately.

Edit: The 330d Bimmer does over 40mpg on highways....

When I said street cred I of course meant style, which you must be concious of as you describe estates as "daddy style" cars.
Think you have been looking at US stats, European Combined Cycle on that S4 is 21.8, ie high 20s on the "highway" and 18 in Urban cycle. However if you have diesel level MPG requirements, it doesnt compete nor was it designed too, but not to the degree you imagine.

The BMW 330d is likely the best allrounder from the above, though I much prefer the 5 series chassis myself. It generally isnt more expensive, just better looking, bigger and with more engine choices.

rabbitinlights

bazz26

Jaguar X-Type estate:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1359979

sk8board

Lex Luthor wrote: »

The new Mondeo estate is like a big open space in there and looks good too.

A6, E39 5 series, Honda Accord, Jag X Type, Merc E class, Saab 95 & Volvo V70 would all be the big estate choices....

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/210283/volvo_v70_vs_rivals.html

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/newreviews/215208/ford_mondeo_estate.html

leeroybrown

I don't know why the OP is calling them 'daddy style' estates. There are plenty of estates available that are subtle performance cars. Like 'cantdecide' (above), I used to drive an A4 Quattro Sport Avant and it was a brilliant car and style-wise I wouldn't have taken a saloon version over it for a second.

Robbo

realcam wrote: »

Street cred is something I wouldn't be overly concerned with and while it certainly is a nice car there is nothing 'economical' about it (15 mpg city, 21 highway). Might as well go for the AMG e-class Merc. Lovely but out of the question, unfortunately.

Edit: The 330d Bimmer does over 40mpg on highways....

I have a 2002 330d Touring. Last week from the west side of Galway to Ballsbridge, I came in at over 50mpg for the trip. Granted I was behaving myself and willfully trying to keep the mpg up but generally I'll be getting 45mpg.

I considered a 320d at the time but I happily pay the extra road tax for the smoothness of the 6 pot.

S.I.R

volvo estate ( v70 ?? ) with the 2.3 5 cyl would be brilliant... either that or a 9-5 Aero....

BostonB

leeroybrown wrote: »

I don't know why the OP is calling them 'daddy style' estates. ...

More elbow room in the back?

cianclarke

If I were after an estate (Which i probably will as my sensible everyday car in about 10 years time), it'd have to be an E39 BMW 5 series estate, I'd take one over the 3 series any day - better value, better looking...

Saab Ed

I love estates. I cant understand why people buy SUV's and MPV's over estates. Heres a few id love...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C82173/



http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C46120/




http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/C5-22-Exclusive-Auto-Diesel-Estate-Sunroof_W0QQitemZ250369912935QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item250369912935&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A7%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

L-M

Saab Ed wrote: »

I love estates. I cant understand why people buy SUV's and MPV's over estates. Heres a few id love...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C82173/

Most awkward thing ever to be behind one of those, with two kids sitting in the boot staring out at you... Nice car though, sleeper:cool:

BostonB

Saab Ed wrote: »

I love estates. I cant understand why people buy SUV's and MPV's over estates. ...

Well MPV's often have a heck lot more space and more seats.

Saab Ed

BostonB wrote: »

Well MPV's often have a heck lot more space and more seats.

If you need the seats then I suppose but only if its a proper 7 seater i.e. Grand Espace or a Galaxy or similar. There is no more useable space in a C-Max say over a Mondeo estate but which is the nicer to drive. X5 versus 530d estate , again same thing. No more useable space and not as nice to drive. No self respecting parent (IMO) would strap their child into the last row of seats in Corrola verso say...the back of their heads are pressed nice and tight against the rear window and their bodies are nice and secure in the crumple zone :eek:. lovely in a rear end...

Lex Luthor

leeroybrown wrote: »

I used to drive an A4 Quattro Sport Avant and it was a brilliant car and style-wise I wouldn't have taken a saloon version over it for a second.

thats because the Avants were always and still are much better looking than their saloon counterparts

DJ Hafez

Volvo V50 Diesel... MMMmmm

BostonB

Saab Ed wrote: »

If you need the seats then I suppose but only if its a proper 7 seater i.e. Grand Espace or a Galaxy or similar. There is no more useable space in a C-Max say over a Mondeo estate but which is the nicer to drive. X5 versus 530d estate , again same thing. No more useable space and not as nice to drive. No self respecting parent (IMO) would strap their child into the last row of seats in Corrola verso say...the back of their heads are pressed nice and tight against the rear window and their bodies are nice and secure in the crumple zone :eek:. lovely in a rear end...

I assume most people in SUV's want one so in an accident they'll drive through and over your estate, regardless of crumble zones. But practicality is rarely why SUV's are bought, I'm guessing.

The C-Max and Corrola verso are compact MPVs rather than MPV's. But that doesn't really matter, as in all 7 seaters the last row is the crumble zone. At least with a MPV/Compact MPV you have the flexibility, which most estates don't. So its not an advantage of estates. If you want a crumble zone in a MPV just sit in the middle row.

As for useable space....

Touran - with seats removed is 1913 litres, five-seater with 1989 litres. With five seats in place, the Touran can carry 695 litres, and with all seven, 121 litres.

5-Series BMW 5-Series Touring 410 litres Seats flat 1,650 litres.
Mondeo with seats flat 1733 litres
A4 Avant 490 litres and 1430 seats down
V70 815 litres with seats down 1600 litres

But most estates look far better no contest.

Saab Ed

I know MPV's by and large can boast more litres of space but Im talking about useable space. For example a couple of years ago I needed to carry a bed home. I work in a car dealer so Im lucky that I can bring home what ever car I need. Now I worked on the bigger space logic and brought an MPV with me but the bed wouldnt fit. Back to work and brought home an estate and bingo, in it went. The MPV was taller but the floor length in the estate was longer and thats what made the difference. Now in fairness you can make that argument stack up either way but unless you carry 24 square boxes with you everywhere I just cant see any reason to buy an MPV over an estate. 3 kids and the buggies will all fit in an estate car. Now people who have 4 kids ,well of course they need the extra seats, its just that most times you see a mammy at school in a Trajet theres usualy only 1 or 2 little ones in the back.

mumblin deaf ro

I've had a crush on a few estates, but can't help feeling that they're just a slightly longer boot that is only any use if you don't mind taking off the parcel shelf and showing everyone what you're carrying (in my case, a buggy).

BostonB

Saab Ed wrote: »

I know MPV's by and large can boast more litres of space but Im talking about useable space. For example a couple of years ago I needed to carry a bed home. I work in a car dealer so Im lucky that I can bring home what ever car I need. Now I worked on the bigger space logic and brought an MPV with me but the bed wouldnt fit. Back to work and brought home an estate and bingo, in it went. The MPV was taller but the floor length in the estate was longer and thats what made the difference. Now in fairness you can make that argument stack up either way but unless you carry 24 square boxes with you everywhere I just cant see any reason to buy an MPV over an estate.

Likewise, do you carry beds everywhere you go. I've managed to fit awkward loads into a Micra that I couldn't get into a A4 estate, because the Micra has a wider boot opening. That doesn't mean the micra has more usuable space. With all things its not black and white, theres shades of grey. Some vehicles have weird suspension turrets or high boot lips which negate the space inside for certain loads.

Saab Ed wrote: »

3 kids and the buggies will all fit in an estate car. Now people who have 4 kids ,well of course they need the extra seats, its just that most times you see a mammy at school in a Trajet theres usualy only 1 or 2 little ones in the back.

Most times I see estates there isn't a bed in the back either. Estates and a lot of MPV's are 2.5 seats wide, not 3 and that makes all the difference with baby seats, 3 teenagers etc, Or 2 baby seats and an adult. As for extra seats theres often times when its handle. 3 kids 2 adults and granny, or your siblings kids aswell as your own.

This reminds of someone pointing out the impracticality of tiny luggage space in someones sports car. The owner replied, passengers in this car, tend not to wear much clothes. If they do, they won't be a passenger.

TomMc

mumblin deaf ro wrote: »

I've had a crush on a few estates, but can't help feeling that they're just a slightly longer boot that is only any use if you don't mind taking off the parcel shelf and showing everyone what you're carrying (in my case, a buggy).

Most estates now look better than their saloon counterparts. They don't look like an afterthought like in the past. Very cool and dare I say chic, extremely popular on the continent, but over here we are mad for frumpy saloons and brash 4x4's.

As for estates, some have sliding covers now rather than a hard parcel shelf, so no messing around with bits and pieces. In the real world, they are far more practical for anyone with no more than 2.4 kids. Where mine really excels is if I want to put a bicycle in the back, it goes straight in without having to remove wheels. As for saloons you can have as big a boot as your like but with bulkier items, the boot opening will limit what actually goes in.

The only downside been that as the rear wheels are kind of in the boot/back as well, road noise is slightly increased.

BostonB

Some family cars like the Octavia, Mondeo have the hatchback, which allows for massive loads too. Estate still looks better. Practicality depends very much how you use it.

Zube

Saab Ed wrote: »

I love estates. I cant understand why people buy SUV's and MPV's over estates.

I can't understand why people buy SUVs, full stop.

I like estates better than saloons, but I want three actual seats in the back. The only estate with three seats that I know of is the 307/308 SW.

the merchant

I drive a '02 BMW 525d. Not only is it more practical than a saloon etc. but I think it looks better. I wasn't a Daddy when I bought it but what i didn't know at the time was that my missus was two weeks pregnant!!

I bought it in England, not just because it's cheaper etc. but they tend to have much higher spec than the Irish ones.

Anyway here it is....