Question re Running Speed Sessions

Seres

1: Current doing them on a threadmill , better outside ? can the oxygen restriction affect your pace indoors?

2:do you need to stick rigidly to the rest interval time ? Will 10/20sec extra have a much of an impact? if so why ?

Krusty_Clown

Hi Seres, sorry to step on your toes, but a couple of other questions related to speed-work:

3) When doing an interval, should you start from a stationary position, or from an easy jog position? I usually start accelerating a second or two before the start of the interval.

4) Anyone have any youtube (or other video) links to runners demonstrating good form in slow motion etc, or any recommended form related websites?

TheRoadRunner

Seres wrote: »

1: Current doing them on a threadmill , better outside ? can the oxygen restriction affect your pace indoors?

2:do you need to stick rigidly to the rest interval time ? Will 10/20sec extra have a much of an impact? if so why ?

Personally couldn't do speed sessions on a treadmill. IMO outside is much better as it forces you to learn how to pace yourself.

Interval time is important, maybe not when you are coming back from a lay off or just starting speed. But I find an extra 10-20 seconds on a recovery period can help me run 1-2 seconds quicker over 400 metres whereas 10 seconds less has me running 2 seconds slower. I'm sure a couple of the sports scientists who post here can flesh this out better than I could.

--amadeus--

Seres wrote: »

1: Current doing them on a threadmill , better outside ? can the oxygen restriction affect your pace indoors?

Not sure about O2 restrictions inside. Heat may be a factor but I doubt that the O2 concentrations would drop to a point it would affect performance.

Of more concern would be the accuracy of the treadmills speed / distance measurement and teh relative effort - generally speaking treadmill running is easier as the surface "pulls" your foot back and you are running without wind resistance so less effort gives the same required speed. If you don't have access to a track or a GPS it's certainly better than guesswork though.

Seres wrote: »

2:do you need to stick rigidly to the rest interval time ? Will 10/20sec extra have a much of an impact? if so why ?

YES!!!

Depending on teh interval the recovery time is utterly vital. Intervals and reps tend to be words that are used interchangeably but they are slightly different things. Irrespective of that you will be training VO2 max *usually) or Lactate Threshold in a rep / interval session. With a VO2 max session you want to spend as long as possible at the "red line", close to but not at your VO2 max limit. Obviously running at that pace is difficult and cannot be sustained for long. So you run for a short time and then rest.

But the rest period is vital - the longer you rest the lower your HR goes so the longer it will take you to get back to your VO2 max level. As your interval is short this can be the difference between logging (for example) 50% of your rep at VO2 max or 75% there with all teh training imlications that brings.

LT reps / intervals are different - from memory you need to rest completely so that you are staring each one as if from scratch so allowing you to gain more time at LT pace.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

3) When doing an interval, should you start from a stationary position, or from an easy jog position? I usually start accelerating a second or two before the start of the interval.

Depends on the interval but personally rarely (if ever) stationary. If it's VO2 max I'd be at gentle run speed but LT probably easy jog. Stationary implies you stop for your rest, wheras gentle jog or walk is more recommended.

cfitz

I think using the word 'recovery' would cause far less confusion (and be more accurate).

Seres

thanks all

Seres

Amadeus
so whats the Difference in function between LT Reps and Intervals ?
LT ?

--amadeus--

Seres wrote: »

Amadeus
so whats the Difference in function between LT Reps and Intervals ?
LT ?

OK, this is all straight from "Daniels Running Formula"

Reps: The major type of training whose purpose is not aerobic. The benefits of R (reps) training are associated more with mechanics and anaerobic metabolism than with aerobic factors...R training (is) running relatively short workbouts with enough recovery time to allow each subsequent run to be just as efficient as the first of teh series. R training is quite anaerobic in nature so isn't necessarily a good approach to improving VO2 max. (my emphasis)

Intervals: Of all types of training Intervals (I) takes on the most meanings. The idea of an interval session is to accumulate a good bit of time working at 90 to 100% VO2 max. When running at proper I pace your body takes about 2 mins to reach VO2 max. (he recommends a 5 min VO2 max run and then there is a graph showing short recovery times allowing for shorter sessions, eg starting a 400m every 2 mins, pages 124 - 125 if you have the book).

"Cruise Reps": Cruise Reps are a series of runs performed at Threshold (T) pace for 10k or longer race prep. They are longer than true reps and you recover fully between workbouts. The intention is to accumulate more time at LT than you could in a single point to point LT paced run.

Hope that helps, let me know if I've made a bags of teh explanation!

TheRoadRunner

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Hope that helps, let me know if I've made a bags of teh explanation!

Good explanation. I generally confuse people by interchanging the words reps and intervals. I'll try to be more concise in future

Seres

Amedeus just one or two questions re your last post

Is anaerobic exercise more for strenght then if so do reps have much purpose for long distance running i.e 10k up ?

The intention is to accumulate more time at LT than you could in a single point to point LT paced run.- not sure if i understand this correctly can you elaborate a little on it ?

--amadeus--

Seres wrote: »

Amedeus just one or two questions re your last post

Is anaerobic exercise more for strenght then if so do reps have much purpose for long distance running i.e 10k up ?

The intention is to accumulate more time at LT than you could in a single point to point LT paced run.- not sure if i understand this correctly can you elaborate a little on it ?

Ahhh now I don't have the book in front of me so this is from memory, I may get this wrong (and if I do can someone please correct me!!)

Anaerobic training trains the energy pathways when there is no O2 available, when you are running beyond your VO2 max. Mostly useful for sprinters, IIRC. However reps are also brilliant at teaching good form and biomechanics and aid in muscle fibre recruitment; all of which are useful for distance running. Speaking from personal experience good rep training is brilliant for giving you a strong "kick" at the end of (for example) a 10k. Are they useful? Follow your training plan is my advice but yes, they have a place in a distance runners training. But less so than other forms of speedwork (eg PMP runs, hills, hill reps, cruise reps and so on).

As for your second Q... There is a practical limit to how far you can go at LT pace. Off the top of my head I can't remember but I think it's around 10k (? can anyone clarify?). Basically LT pace is too fast to sustain beyond this distance, in one go.

So if you want to improve your LT you could run (for example) 4 miles at LT pace. Or you could do 6 * 1 mile cruise intervals. By resting and recovering between workbouts you start each one fresh and so can get a greater distance in at your desired pace than if you ran all the miles "end to end" (still not convinced I have explained that well)

cfitz

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Good explanation. I generally confuse people by interchanging the words reps and intervals. I'll try to be more concise in future

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Daniels just uses these definitions of reps and intervals for his own convenience and they are by no means accepted definitions in the world of running.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Daniels just uses these definitions of reps and intervals for his own convenience and they are by no means accepted definitions in the world of running.

Yeah I was going to post that.


Its just Daniels way of describing two different types of interval training (i.e. an interval of some length of faster running followed by a period of slower running).

It makes sense to me because for some reason an interval just sounds longer than a rep to me but Id never correct anybody if they used different terms.

Essentially they are both interval sessions...they just achieve different things.

Racing Flat

--amadeus-- wrote: »

When running at proper I pace your body takes about 2 mins to reach VO2 max.

That's why intervals to improve VO2 max should last between 2 mins and 6 mins. Less than 2 min intervals won't cut the mustard.

And also why, for the same given pace, 3 x 6min intervals is better than 6 x 3min intervals. (In the 3 x 6min session you will be at VO2 max for 12mins in total; in the 6 x 3min session for 4 6mins in total).

And so for races where VO2 max is the main concern (probably 3k to 10k) long intervals (i.e. > 2mins) are more appropriate.

Concentrate on shorter intervals when training for shorter distances (<3k), and stick with longer intervals, but do more of them, a little slower for >10k.

That's your speed session for the week sorted. Add in a LT run, a long run and a few easy runs, good food, plenty rest and you're totally sorted!!!

Racing Flat

--amadeus-- wrote: »

There is a practical limit to how far you can go at LT pace. Off the top of my head I can't remember but I think it's around 10k (? can anyone clarify?).

Maximum pace you can sustain for 1 hour.

Seres

thanks amadeus for the further explanation , i could ask you questions all day re the above info but its probably best reading up on it myself first

--amadeus--

Seres wrote: »

thanks amadeus for the further explanation , i could ask you questions all day re the above info but its probably best reading up on it myself first

No worries, that's what we're (all) here for! I agree about reading up though - no matter how much you think you know there's always more info out there and things change all the time.

As for teh broader point I think you're all right, Daniels is very precise around his definitions and they aren't in any way universal terms. But there are so many different types of "interval" that it's always good to clarify *which* interval someone is talking about and teh Daniels definitions are as good as any.