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Help to identify this carved stone text or translate please

  • 25-03-2009 11:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭


    Can any one identify the language or better still translate it.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    Don't know, but at an educated quess I would say Latin. What type of building is it on? Is it ecclesiastical?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Whats the context of the stone? Where is it located any images of the building it is attatched to?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    malman wrote: »
    Don't know, but at an educated quess I would say Latin. What type of building is it on? Is it ecclesiastical?

    The stone in Limerick city not far form king John castle. it is not in it original setting.
    It is near a Benedictine abbey but has nothing to do with it. It way have come from a Franciscan abbey.

    The pictures below Shows where it is now. What you see in the picture are pieces taken for different places to that have been put together.

    Most of what I was told about it is not much more than hear say.

    Also I do not know if it is even the right way up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Phototoxin


    Oíb súi vaibim
    mise nar diliarrg bo

    Does latin have accents ? Vabim seems latin but the rest doesn't. Anyway I'm not an expert that's just a quick look at something roughtly sounding irish


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    Well if it is not Latin I don't know what it is. I don't think it could be Irish as there are no V's in the language.


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    from a quick glance it looks like old irish with sheidhbu's (SP - cba looking up)
    also V is easier to carve than U so guess what they do ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13 Przemyslaw


    For me it looks like Latin with ligatures. It seems to be something like "O IEI SIIT VANEI UN | HINE DEII DIIS TE??BO" It's hard to say without seeing it in reality. Remember that in old Latin there was no spaces between words and no periods after using abbreviations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    "If you can read this..you are too close."


    Seriously I think its old irish. Is it possible that it is Latin on top and old irish on the bottom or vice versa? To me it doesnt sit naturally and I would guess that it may have come from somewhere else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Belfast wrote: »
    The stone in Limerick city not far form king John castle. it is not in it original setting.
    It is near a Benedictine abbey but has nothing to do with it. It way have come from a Franciscan abbey.

    The pictures below Shows where it is now. What you see in the picture are pieces taken for different places to that have been put together.

    Most of what I was told about it is not much more than hear say.

    Also I do not know if it is even the right way up.

    The stone came from an old chapel in Donoughmore Parish, Co. Limerick.
    The stone is standing in the ground of ST. Mary's Convent (Catherine MacAuley House). It was placed at this location by the curate of St. John's Parish, Fr. James Creegan C.C later P.P. in St. Munchin's Parish who had it preserved in the year 1896.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Modified photo of the stone might make it easier to see the text


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Wallacebiy


    Old Norse in latinised alphabet instead of runes ?

    It looks similar alright to Old english , but did use V and various accents .

    Not an expert on it now but might be that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Wallacebiy wrote: »
    Old Norse in latinised alphabet instead of runes ?

    It looks similar alright to Old english , but did use V and various accents .

    Not an expert on it now but might be that

    something like Beowulf?
    Beowulf.firstpage.jpeg

    full text in original script
    http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext06/8bwlf10h.htm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 Gnar


    p067_0_01_7.jpg

    I thought this rubbing from a tomb in Kilcooley abbey Co.Kilkenny was similar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Gnar wrote: »
    p067_0_01_7.jpg

    I thought this rubbing from a tomb in Kilcooley abbey Co.Kilkenny was similar.


    Rubbing of Latin inscription from one of the tombs by Cormac Maher, 2nd Class
    http://www.stjosephsns.net/kilcooley_abbey.html

    I wonder who told them it was Latin ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Wallacebiy


    Belfast wrote: »

    Well not , because that is the Old English version of the tale .

    What you have there in the picture looks similar to Old English But a few of the things in it , the V and the Accents for example , throw my ( admittedly inexpert ) eye towards Old Norse.

    Have a search aroun to look at Old Norse texts and you'll see what I mean , I can't really find a killer link for you at the moment though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Electronic Text Collections in Western European Literature
    This page lists Internet sources for literary texts in the western European languages other than English. Translations are mentioned only when they are included in collections of original language texts, or when they are themselves of interest. Collections are listed more or less in order of size; indivdual authors are listed alphabetically. EuroDocs lists many historical and social science texts in western European languages
    http://lib.virginia.edu/wess/etexts.html

    720 manascrpts spanning 5000 years
    The Collection is also a means to preserve and protect for posterity a wide range of written expressions of belief, knowledge and understanding from many different cultures throughout the ages.
    http://www.schoyencollection.com/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Wallacebiy wrote: »
    Well not , because that is the Old English version of the tale .

    What you have there in the picture looks similar to Old English But a few of the things in it , the V and the Accents for example , throw my ( admittedly inexpert ) eye towards Old Norse.

    Have a search aroun to look at Old Norse texts and you'll see what I mean , I can't really find a killer link for you at the moment though

    This seems to look like it to me.
    The missal of the Dominican covent of Lausanne, the oldest dominican missal currently known. Copied arouned 1240, binding of the 16th century. (Historical Museum of Lausanne).
    Missel_dominicain_MG_2117.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    I just got this by email the other day.

    The language of the inscription is Latin and the script is a medieval one. The opening words are 'Omnia sunt vana...', which echo the biblical saying, 'All is vanity' (Book of Ecclesiastes).

    I still need a translation on the rest of the text.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    http://www.archive.org/details/journalofroyalso25royauoft

    The journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland 1895

    Ennis ABBEY AND THE O'BRIEX TOMBS.

    BY THOMAS JOHNSON WESTROPP, M.A., M.R.I. A., FELLOW.



    "Donchad Cairbrech O'Brien, King of Thomond, fearing the approach
    of death, after a reign commenced in civil war against a brother
    and stained by endless feuds, strove to ease his conscience by munificent

    gifts to the Church. He restored his father's abbey of Inislaunaght for
    the Cistercians ; he built a house for the Dominicans at Limerick, and
    finally founded another convent for the followers of the "Angelic Father"

    of Assisi, "in the midst of his subjects," near his "princely circular
    palace, on the bank of the river Fergus, opposite Inis an laoigh, in a
    place of swamps and streams called Clonroad." 1 There, where the

    narrow streets of Ennis stand and the clear brown Fergus runs over
    pebbly shallows, overhung with trees, he commenced his monastery at
    the cost of three years taxes of his realm, which then claimed to include

    not only Co. Clare, "from Loop Head to Bealboru," but much of
    Tipperary, "from Birr to Knockaney, and south to Eoghanacht Cashel."
    " He exchanged this mortal life for the felicity of angels," on March 8th,

    1242, 2 leaving his work in progress, and being buried in his Dominican
    convent, where the ivied north wall of the church, and heaps of carved
    finials and capitals and pillars, in the pretty convent gardens, mark where

    his monument and effigy were long extant, under the towers of the
    Plantagenet fortress of Limerick, and where the only legible inscription
    fitly reads,
    " omnia sunt vana."

    After Sir Thomas de Clare and Prince Donchad O'Brien had perished

    more than 40 years later, Torlough, their successful opponent, in the
    beginning of his undisputed reign, proceeded to enlarge the work of his
    predecessor (1287, 1306). The Book of his wars states that Turlough

    dwelt in three houses : first, the palace of Clonroad, to which he had
    added a stone tower; secondly, "in the fish streamed and beautified
    fabric of the convent of Inis an laoigh, which he filled with monks, and

    supplied with sweet bells, crucifixes, and a good library, embroidery,
    veils, and cowls ; that blessed habitation which he built for his own
    interment will last for ever after him in splendour "; his third home was

    in Heaven.

    Despite the fierce wars with the English (1310, 1318) Maccon caech
    Macnamara found opportunity to rebuild the sacristy and refectory

    1 " The Wars of Torlough," written by John Mac Grath in King Dermot's reign.

    (1343-60), though wrongly dated a century later in a copy, temp. George L, ic
    T.C.D.

    2 Calendar of Dominican Priory, Limerick. "


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Donogh Cairbreagh O'Brien is also mentioned in the text below in the link below and the is all a picture of the stone.

    http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.org/Dominicans/hyDominicans.htm

    and here
    Donnchad Cairprech macDomnaill Mór son of Donnell Mór macToirrdelbaig O'Brien and Urlachan MacMurchada 1210 1242 brother of Muirchertach Finn, who had abdicated

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Thomond#O.27Brien_Clan

    http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:Tak8ob056IEJ:my.gencircle.com/users/gren/1/data/52124+Donnchad+Cairprech+M%C3%B3ir&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

    Donnchad Cairprech Moir O' Brien
    Birth: 1168
    Death: 1242
    Sex: M
    Father: Donnell O' Brien b. 1137 in Connaught,Ireland
    Mother: Urlachan MacDermot Of Leinster MacMurrough b. 1140


    About the year 1240, Donogh Cairbreach O’Brien built a beautiful monastery for conventual Franciscan friars at Ennis. From its size, beauty, and surroundings, it was regarded as one of the principal convents of the order in Ireland.
    http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/frost/chap8_drumcliff_parish.htm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13 Przemyslaw


    In 90% it's in Latin.

    The first word can be for "omnia" (with weird ligature) - all
    The second word is like "sui" - "his", "theirs".
    The third word "Vanei" looks like "clean".
    The fourth word would be "here" (something between latin and old anglosaxon)
    Fith: God (in Detive case)
    Sixth: Diis (two - more than two)
    Seventh: Ire (go, to walk, to lead)
    Eight: boi (cows?)

    In the 7th word is a weird ligature where can be a ligature for a number/digit.
    So, would it be mean that the person is "The cleanest of the all of those who leads own cows"?



    I'm going to contact my friend who's literal in Latin. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 Gnar


    Just a thought but could cows also be herd,so in a literal sense it is describing a shepherd of people,like Jesus for instance.


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