CV lenght....really can't squeeze into 2 pages!

TripleAce

I am currently updating my CV as I will be finishing with my current company in May (happy days, delighted to get a redundancy package ).

Basically my CV is 6 pages long, I know that ideally a CV should be 2 pages, but I really feel I can't remove important experience/education, etc just to fit it. The position I am looking to apply is as Project Manager and I feel I should list my previous projects and responsibilities...but again apparently 6 pages is way too long.

Did anyone have the same problem? How did you work around that?

I was thinking of doing a "full version" and "short version", whereby in the short version I only list the title of my job without going into details and attach the full version to go along with it...not sure this is practical though.

Any advice is more than welcome

nitrogen

How long have you been working? Experts in their field with thirty years experience wouldn't have a six page CV.

Ideally two, maximum three. In my opinion anything over that and you either can't summarise or have too big an ego.

helimachoptor

OP, 6 pages is far too long, list your strengths and key things that you have delivered, 6 pages sounds like a whole load of waffle tbh.

Be concise but make sure you look good.

Mena

Mine is 7 pages, after all the waffle is removed, 17 years experience.

To say 6 is too long or that not even someone with 30 years exp will have that much detail is simply wrong.

OP, do what I did and just include a short summary on the first page (although your CV will now be 7 pages long too :P. This gives them a chance to scan over the CV and then drill down into the detail if required.

TripleAce

nitrogen wrote: »

How long have you been working? Experts in their field with thirty years experience wouldn't have a six page CV.

Ideally two, maximum three. In my opinion anything over that and you either can't summarise or have too big an ego.

I have done several jobs, from technical support to development, to what I am doing now. I feel I lose a bit if I leave out previous experience as they are all relevant to what I am looking for. I have seen several two pages CVs before when we were interviewing and I always found them very empty and missing critical information....for example job title shown but without description of the key responsibilities, etc.

I also asked my manager and he also has a 6-pages CV, he says it is ok to have - HR advises the opposite. I will meet with somebody in HR to get some advice also before I start spamming it out and see what I can remove from it

If I could get out of this with a nice and tidy 4-page CV I would be happy with it.

Eoin

6 pages is way too long. I read a few CVs last year which were that long (and longer again), and it put me right off. A 2 page CV should still give you the guts of 1.5 pages space to list your experience, and that should really be enough. You're not advertising your communication / reporting skills too well if you can't get it down from 6 pages.

TripleAce

Mena wrote: »

OP, do what I did and just include a short summary on the first page (although your CV will now be 7 pages long too :P. This gives them a chance to scan over the CV and then drill down into the detail if required.

Thank you. Yes on the first page I have my "Professional Profile" that takes about half page, and then all the details are listed underneath starting from experience, then skills and education last as I think is the less relevant of the three.

HashSlinging

I got my CV from 6 to 3, I've seen some people throw 6 pages straight into bins.

kmick

TripleAce wrote: »

Thank you. Yes on the first page I have my "Professional Profile" that takes about half page

Thats more suitable for a cover letter - take it out.

Mine is
Arial 10
Name, DOB, Address, Phone (4 lines)
Leaving Cert results if you are stuck and it sounds like you are not (3 lines)
College courses and result (2-3 lines)
Job title and 6-8 bullet points per role
Other qualifications (3/4 lines)
Interests (1 line)

What else have you got in there aside from that lot? Every time I go looking for a job they tell me it should be longer. I tell them to Interview me if they want to know more.

pwd

One page is best if you want people to read it. Two pages is ok. Anything above that risks been binned offhand I reckon.
What I have done before is to put more details of work on a website, and put the address of that on the printed cv.

Mena

kmick wrote: »

Thats more suitable for a cover letter - take it out.

Mine is
Arial 10
Name, DOB, Address, Phone (4 lines)
Leaving Cert results if you are stuck and it sounds like you are not (3 lines)
College courses and result (2-3 lines)
Job title and 6-8 bullet points per role
Other qualifications (3/4 lines)
Interests (1 line)

What else have you got in there aside from that lot? Every time I go looking for a job they tell me it should be longer. I tell them to Interview me if they want to know more.

To be fair, it all depends on what level you are at in your career and the job you are applying for. If I gave that little information for my last role, which was at Director level, I'd get binned ASAP.

So it's all about targetting your CV. For some positions I admit, the shorter the better, for others, not so.

Thoie

Move education to the bottom, and only if it's really relevant - with the exception of the civil service, no-one cares what your leaving and inter cert results were. If you have a degree, just put that down as a single line

"Graduated UCD, 1868, B.Sc. (Microbiology)"

If you have relevant certifications (such as PMI or something) you can add another line saying "Registered PMI practitioner".

Bullet point some "other info" at the end - Full driving license, qualified scuba diver or what have you.

Leave out your full postal address etc on the front page. If you really want it there, put it in a header of the document.

Unless you were Monica Lewinsky, ignore any summer jobs/internships.


If your first few jobs look like

Company A - tea monkey - 95-96
Company A - tea and coffee monkey 96-98
Company A - hot beverages team lead 98-01

just roll them up into one "Comp A, Beverage Lead 95-01, started as tea monkey and was promoted twice to become team lead in 98, responsible for a variety of drinks including tea, coffee and later hot chocolate as well, leading a team of 30 monkeys"

kmick

Thoie wrote: »

just roll them up into one "Comp A, Beverage Lead 95-01, started as tea monkey and was promoted twice to become team lead in 98, responsible for a variety of drinks including tea, coffee and later hot chocolate as well, leading a team of 30 monkeys"

Ah those monkey teams - the memories. Some said it would never work out. It was the best of times it was the Blurst of times.

caff

Your cv should be taken as an "invitation to treat" you shouldn't go into too much detail about each job you had. A one job title, description and then a list of skills. All the detail is for the interview.

TripleAce

Thoie wrote: »

Move education to the bottom, and only if it's really relevant - with the exception of the civil service, no-one cares what your leaving and inter cert results were. If you have a degree, just put that down as a single line

"Graduated UCD, 1868, B.Sc. (Microbiology)"

If you have relevant certifications (such as PMI or something) you can add another line saying "Registered PMI practitioner".

Bullet point some "other info" at the end - Full driving license, qualified scuba diver or what have you.

Leave out your full postal address etc on the front page. If you really want it there, put it in a header of the document.

Unless you were Monica Lewinsky, ignore any summer jobs/internships.


If your first few jobs look like

Company A - tea monkey - 95-96
Company A - tea and coffee monkey 96-98
Company A - hot beverages team lead 98-01

just roll them up into one "Comp A, Beverage Lead 95-01, started as tea monkey and was promoted twice to become team lead in 98, responsible for a variety of drinks including tea, coffee and later hot chocolate as well, leading a team of 30 monkeys"

Thanks for this. Yes I am PMP Certified and put this in my professional profile on top and all the rest of the education down at the bottom as I don't think is too relevant (I also don't have master degrees, etc so nothing to show off there, better hide it ).
I think where I have problems is in the last few paragraph you show above, where you list the job titles but I feel it misses a lot of the details of the responsibilities. For example "responsible for a variety of drinks including tea, coffee and later hot chocolate", but in this case is "responsible" enough? Isn't it a bit vague? Should I know give a bit more details?

Thank you again for your help and thanks everybody for your answers so far.

Thoie

kmick wrote: »

Ah those monkey teams - the memories. Some said it would never work out. It was the best of times it was the Blurst of times.

I still fondly remember the time we accidentally wrote the complete works of Shakespeare when someone left us alone with a typewriter...

Going back on topic, one other thing to remember is that no matter what your career's teacher in school said, I've never yet come across a company that cares what your hobbies are unless it affects them adversely.

Thoie

TripleAce wrote: »

I think where I have problems is in the last few paragraph you show above, where you list the job titles but I feel it misses a lot of the details of the responsibilities. For example "responsible for a variety of drinks including tea, coffee and later hot chocolate", but in this case is "responsible" enough? Isn't it a bit vague? Should I know give a bit more details?

Thank you again for your help and thanks everybody for your answers so far.

Well, you can make a few assumptions - the majority of people interviewing you will be familiar with those kind of roles, and familiar with what's involved in a team lead job. So listing the "standard" things such as "approved holidays, signed off expense sheets, organised nappy training for the monkeys, drew up rotas, did annual reviews" - it's all bumpf.

What I'd want to know is did you do anything extraordinary there. Did you revolutionise the call center? Did you introduce a scheme that saw customer satisfaction soar to 99.9% (cos there's always one grumpy fecker)? Did you reduce callbacks by 70%?

Similarly, if you're a PM, I expect you to do schedules, budgets, weekly status reports. I want to know how many of your projects were delivered on time and on budget (and I'll be probing that info in the interview, along with what the most disastrous project you ever did was).

As someone else mentioned, your CV is an invitation - make it stand out to me by showing some remarkable things you've done - don't just tell me what a monkey manager normally does.

Kernel32

I have done a decent amount of hiring in my time, both as the primary recruiter and as a secondary interviewer.

You want 2 pages. First half page is most important and the vast majority of people won't read past it until you have sold them in that first half page. This is extremely important if you apply to a small company. A small company does not have a real HR department. The CEO could be reviewing your CV and will toss a 6 pager in the bin because he can't read it while polishing off his morning coffee.

Forget all the crappy details of the jobs you did and those wonderful little modules you wrote for the killer app. How did you contribute to the success of your employer, thats what is important.

TripleAce

How about sending 2 CVs, a "short version" and a "full version", so the recruiter can go through the short version and then if they want more details they can go through the full version? Would this be acceptable?

Thoie

TripleAce wrote: »

How about sending 2 CVs, a "short version" and a "full version", so the recruiter can go through the short version and then if they want more details they can go through the full version? Would this be acceptable?

Probably not unfortunately. What then faces them is 8 pages when they open the email/envelope.

Kila

Could you move some of the larger detail (e.g. specific large projects and details of same) into a portfolio?

I'm in web design myself, so obviously the proof of the pudding, in my case, is the work I've done previously, and not whatever I say I can do on my cv. To that end, my cv detailed my education and most recent (relevant) job experience, and I made sure to let each employer and recruiter know that I had a portfolio available on request.

My CV was 2 pages exactly, but my portfolio was several pages, detailing the extent to which I'd worked on each site I was covering, the technologies used, etc. Whenever I spoke to recruiters who asked me to send on a copy of my CV, I just made sure to mention I had a portfolio too. They almost always wanted to see it also and I could email the two attachments to them (allowing them to have the CV separately for submission to client).

I also printed out my portfolio (high quality paper, full colour laser printing) and had it in a portfolio binder (leather outer cover and all that jazz) and brought it along to interviews with me so that if I wanted to discuss specific projects, I could refer to it, show it to the employers etc.

Hope some of that helps.

leeroybrown

I've reviewed a reasonable few long CVs and they've all without exception have reflected poorly on the candidate. Most were poorly laid out sprawls that included unnecessary information that actually obscured the really relevant details. I can understand experienced candidates not being able to fit a thorough CV in two pages but when they start hitting six they're probably placing a lot more importance on half of what they've written than anyone else will.

Kernel32

leeroybrown wrote: »

I can understand experienced candidates not being able to fit a thorough CV in two pages but when they start hitting six they're probably placing a lot more importance on half of what they've written than anyone else will.

This is a very important point. A 6 page CV says, "I'm believe I am so important that I think you will take the time to read all of this". A 2 page one says "You're so important I distilled my CV down to fit into the time you have to read this".

AARRRGH

My CV is three pages long. It's never been a problem.

Thoie

AARRRGH wrote: »

My CV is three pages long. It's never been a problem.

That's because in general employers don't respond to applications with

"tl;dr"

AARRRGH

I don't get it! Sorry...

Thoie

"tl;dr" is often used on fora for "too long - didn't read". It's both flippant and rude. Also replying to something you haven't read is a waste of internetz.

Unless you've gotten every single job you ever applied for with a particular CV, or at the very least been called to interview, then none of us can really say whether our CVs are OK or not. Different formats of CV do it for different people. Some hirers might want an essay to read while soaking in the bath, others,as pointed out before, might want something they can review while their coffee cools.

I hate and detest altering my CV 6 million times for 6 million different jobs, but sadly there's never going to be a one size fists all. All you can do is stick to some general rules, and tweak for each job as you go along. Having said that, for any job that pays less than €350million, most hirers just aren't going to examine something 6 pages long, and 2 pages seems to hit about the right level.

Emerald Lass

as others said the interview is the time for going into detail. The CV is the 'highlights' or trailer to your main event of the interview. you want just enough info to show your skill set, strengths and abilities. After that, as others have already said, if you engage them enough you can elaborate on just how wonderful you are in the interview.

also bear in mind, in most interviews you are asked to 'take your interviewer through your CV'. If its 6 pages that will eat up a lot of your interview time, and might make you look like a waffler. Then you have no other time to charm them/elaborate on specific important points.

And if you mention every single thing you did, then its like saying EVERYTHING I do is SO important. Like someone said, it looks like you think you are just THAT important! (which you may well be, but you don't want to present it in an arrogant way)

TripleAce

Thank you all very much for your answers! This thread has been very useful to me - have a meeting setup with my HR Manager for tomorrow to go through it together. If by the end of tomorrow I have a 2-3 pages CV ready I will be very satisfied!

AARRRGH

Thoie wrote: »

Unless you've gotten every single job you ever applied for with a particular CV, or at the very least been called to interview, then none of us can really say whether our CVs are OK or not.

Well, I write killer cover letters which always get me an interview, so I'm going to be brave and say my CV has never been a problem... but sure, I'm not so arrogant to say it couldn't be improved.

Xiney

It honestly depends on your level and industry. If your manager has a 6 page CV and you're only one or two levels below him, then 6 pages could be acceptable.

I worked with Oncologists for a while - some of them have CVs that are over 70 pages long because they list all their published papers and clinical trials and so on.

Wishbone Ash

'Arial Narrow' and 'Size 10' will do wonders. I have 25 years of work in two pages.

As someone who has to read other CVs, I can assure you that anything more than 2/3 pages is irritating. If you are under pressure for space, drop the hobbies/interests bit. I've never been asked about them , nor do I know anyone who has.

Beaucoupfish

I've had so many jobs that I had to cut half of them out even though I got good experience from them but it tends to look bad when you have had too many varied roles. So I stretch the dates in some of the more meaningful jobs to make out I've got an organised and planned career. Yeah right.

I wish I could find a job I really love. Is this possible?

TripleAce

I found an interesting link to the advised template to use when applying for jobs in the EU. I would like to share this with you, in case you need it:

http://europass.cedefop.europa.eu/europass/home/hornav/Downloads/EuropassCV/CVTemplate.csp

Thoie

TripleAce wrote: »

I found an interesting link to the advised template to use when applying for jobs in the EU. I would like to share this with you, in case you need it:

http://europass.cedefop.europa.eu/europass/home/hornav/Downloads/EuropassCV/CVTemplate.csp

Aw now Ted, that's horrific. Is that what they pointed you to in HR? Go back and tell them not to be so lazy!

Mrs OBumble

Kernel32 wrote: »

I have done a decent amount of hiring in my time, both as the primary recruiter and as a secondary interviewer.

You want 2 pages. First half page is most important and the vast majority of people won't read past it until you have sold them in that first half page.

I've also done a fair amount of hiring.

You need the first page to get me interested (remember, I probably don't read the cover letter).

But if that first page gets me interested, the other pages definitely have to have enough detail about actual experience to convince me that you do have all the wonderful skills that you claimed to have in that first-page summary. For some roles, you may be able fit that into two pages. For many real-world roles (esp if you have a bit of experience in different things) that will take 6+ pages. Do what suits.

FWIW, I have three versions:

- professional (six pages, details of experience and professional training, minimal details of education at the bottom, nothing about hobbies).

- serious-monkey (three pages, dumbed-down job titles and responsibilities, hobbies and education)

- real-monkey (two pages, double-sided so the 2nd doesn't get lost, ultra-dumbed-down descriptions of jobs but no job-titles, no hobbies or education)

Send as appropriate.

Maglight

6 pages is way too long. Highlight your key skills, and then in each job list one or two key achievements that you an quantify. Employers want to know what you will bring to the job. They can tell that more easily by reading about your achievements than a shopping list of responsibilities. You only need to list each achievement once. So no need to repeat it if you have done similar things in different roles. For example, if you have brought six projects in ahead of schedule and below budget, only give the biggest project as an example.

6 pages is self indulgent - sorry

jimmycrackcorm

It's all down to the quality of the information - 6 pages of absolutely relevant concise information is good.

Anyway you should be tailoring your CV to a particular application will help cut it down.

TripleAce

Alright, I managed to squeeze it into 2 pages ( ) .....now last quick question. Is it nicer to send it in Word format, or better PDF?

Thank you again

Eoin

Definitely MS Word. Don't force your preferred format on to an employer.

Many HR people and/or managers might want to make notes on the CV, and while they may be able to view a PDF, the odds are that they won't have software that can update a document.

Agencies will often put their logo and contact details on the CV, and remove your contact details - so again, they will want it in MS Word.

segaBOY

Is 1.25 pages too short?

I include, Name, Address, DOB, phone, email

Education-Primary, Secondary and Third level

Previous work

Other experience

Hobbies

References


It's fairly blunt with bullet point style format but I wanted to keep it short so the employer could have a quick glance of what I have to offer them-would you reckon it looks lazy to be so short?

I also include a nice cover letter to get a good overview.

Eoin

It depends - how long have you been working? I am guessing you're not long out of school if you're still including primary education. If so, then I'd say one page should do you.

Thoie

segaBOY wrote: »

Is 1.25 pages too short?

I include, Name, Address, DOB, phone, email

Education-Primary, Secondary and Third level

Previous work

Other experience

Hobbies

References


It's fairly blunt with bullet point style format but I wanted to keep it short so the employer could have a quick glance of what I have to offer them-would you reckon it looks lazy to be so short?

I also include a nice cover letter to get a good overview.

Just make sure that you include a little info about the previous work, particularly if the job title isn't particularly enlightening.

For example "Till operator" might involve nothing more than swiping barcodes, but on the other hand maybe it involves cashing up, customer service, form filling...

t-ha

Have you ever had to review CV's yourself? Just put yourself in their position.

If I saw 6 pages I'd throw it out.

If you're going on about your leaving cert and junior cert scores my eyes would glaze over.

If you start listing reams of jobs and going through every menial "responsibility" you had and some you made up I think that one's heading to the bin as well.

I want to know your basic details, relevant qualifications (generally starting with diplomas and degrees) and 'relevant' experience. That means if the job involves you leading a project then highlighting previous experience of that in your prior work is important. If you need experience working with particular software then highlighting that is obviously important. Nothing wrong with just giving dates and a job title if it's not that relevant to what you're trying to get now - or just leaving it out altogether if it doesn't leave a gaping hole in your CV.

I don't care if you like walking dogs or playing tennis or whatever.

TripleAce

t-ha wrote: »

Have you ever had to review CV's yourself? Just put yourself in their position.

If I saw 6 pages I'd throw it out.

If you're going on about your leaving cert and junior cert scores my eyes would glaze over.

If you start listing reams of jobs and going through every menial "responsibility" you had and some you made up I think that one's heading to the bin as well.

I want to know your basic details, relevant qualifications (generally starting with diplomas and degrees) and 'relevant' experience. That means if the job involves you leading a project then highlighting previous experience of that in your prior work is important. If you need experience working with particular software then highlighting that is obviously important. Nothing wrong with just giving dates and a job title if it's not that relevant to what you're trying to get now - or just leaving it out altogether if it doesn't leave a gaping hole in your CV.

I don't care if you like walking dogs or playing tennis or whatever.

TBH i had to review just a few CVs for candidates who were going to join my team and I was really turned off by their 1-2 pages CV....there were no information in there, no description of the previous responsibilities...nothing. I understand why HR managers who have to review plenty of applications prefer 2 pages CVs, and I have changed mine accordingly, but from my point of view I would really prefer to have a 4-5 pages CV (it only takes 10 minutes to read through anyway) and avoid wasting my time interviewing somebody I have not enough info about....but again, this is my point of view and doesn't really count as the market wants short CVs....

mark renton

CV lenght....really can't squeeze into 2 pages!

try font size 5 - that should compact it