How do these guitars sound?

TelePaul

Further to a discussion on another site about cheap Marshall amps being utter sh!te - the MG series and AVT series to be precise - I decided to throw down some blues licks with my 50 watt AVT combo and a pedal or two in front.

www.soundclick.com/glasshouserecordings "Blues Jam"

(Sorry about the ****ty drum and bass - the drums are a loop, and Da Dum Tish has kindly sent me a way better bassline - unfortunately it's still on my laptop )

I think the guitars here are passable; bit of compression but that's it, didn't bother 'mixing' this. Personally, I like the sound of solid state amps for most clean tones...which is not to say that I dislike tube amps for their cleans, because I don't...I just think solid states, and particularly those entry-level marshalls get a rough ride. Also, the right pedal or two can work wonders.

What are you all playing through?

BuddhaJoe

Thats a real nice tone. There might be a little too much compression though, theres a lot of plec noise.

TelePaul

BuddhaJoe wrote: »

Thats a real nice tone. There might be a little too much compression though, theres a lot of plec noise.

Thanks so much man! Yah I might tone down the comp. I have a Boss SD1 set as a booster, so I find digging in with the pic gives a very thick sound, almost SRVish. I'll certainly revisit the amount of compression on the humbucker licks. Those pacificas are so versatile.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i like it , bass needs to be louder ( thats the old clip right ? )
the drums need to be swung / add a slight shuffle feel - they are too straight 8 for this kind of feel .

you need a dotted 8th feel .
also think you need to maybe bus compress it all in some way to glue it , it all sounds a bit like a seperated load of instruments , instead of a blend if oyu know what i mean .

i like it though , was tapping away to it .


the jam one - again overall glue is missing , i feel it lacks low end again , maybe your monitoring area is too bassy and you are removing bass too much ?

good job though

TelePaul

DaDumTish wrote: »

i like it , bass needs to be louder ( thats the old clip right ? )
the drums need to be swung / add a slight shuffle feel - they are too straight 8 for this kind of feel .

you need a dotted 8th feel .
also think you need to maybe bus compress it all in some way to glue it , it all sounds a bit like a seperated load of instruments , instead of a blend if oyu know what i mean .

i like it though , was tapping away to it .

Thanks, yep that's my crappy bass! Have sorta 'mixed' it since; some panning on the guitars and some tape saturation on the bass holds it together a bit and I've brought down the sizzle in the rhythm guitars. Drums are just some loops from Drums on Demand, I'm very much restricted in what I can use.

DaDumTish wrote: »

the jam one - again overall glue is missing , i feel it lacks low end again , maybe your monitoring area is too bassy and you are removing bass too much ?

good job though

Ya can't hear bass because...there is none! As you probably guessed, I hate recording bass. And playing bass. And generally looking at/touching the instrument. I should've put one in, maybe a cello VST from synful will substitute.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

no , i know theres no bass, i mean there is a lack of low end as well in the overall .

for the blues drums , i would add a jazz ride patern on the hats or ride , subtly in the mix to swing it a bit.

TelePaul

DaDumTish wrote: »

no , i know theres no bass, i mean there is a lack of low end as well in the overall.

Yep, but intrument-wise there's very little low end overall...can't EQ what doesn't make it to tape!

DaDumTish wrote: »

for the blues drums , i would add a jazz ride patern on the hats or ride , subtly in the mix to swing it a bit.

"Jazz ride pattern" you and your crazy lingo!

i57dwun4yb1pt8

http://www.paulwertico.com/articles/jazzridecymbal2.php

BumbleB

Digitech Gnx 4 with the supermodels series, direct to flat response monitors. No amp in the world can touch this setup.All my marshalls and my fender twin are collecting dust these days.

if6was9

Those cheap marshalls are alright for cleans, but absolutely suck for anything over mild distortion.
recently recorded a metal band who used a marshall mg, other guy had a bugera 6260( peavey 5150 clone). his tone was very poor while the guy using the bugera had a great fat meaty tone. spent a few mintues trying to eq it to sound nice, messed with mic placement, even had it ran out to a really nice cab but still the tone was just buzzy and lacked defintion. The distortion sounded like really harsh digital clipping and sounded layered over a di rather than that being the tone.
I've used several MG's and owned AVt's over the years, the AVT's are alot better than the MG's but neither compares to a nice tube amp.

TelePaul

I think we need some blind testing! Solid state, tubes and modellers.

Brien

I have a peavy solely for its reverb, marshall avt 150 (which i know its beauty is very much in the eye of only the owner :P) and a fender delux. you never know what you want for a song, and sometimes you want the sound of a sh!ty 10 watt for fx. next in line when the $$$$ is around, classic: ac30

PaulBrewer

BumbleB wrote: »

Ddirect to flat response monitors. No amp in the world can touch this setup.

Two statements in one post that raises my eyebrow! Explain!!??

i57dwun4yb1pt8

BumbleB wrote: »

Digitech Gnx 4 with the supermodels series, direct to flat response monitors. No amp in the world can touch this setup.All my marshalls and my fender twin are collecting dust these days.

i like plugins and effects racks , but that statement is just wrong on so many levels

Last Angry Man

Agreed - try using a lot less distortion than you would when playing live - and a I mean a LOT less - then use a good quality mike (I prefer the old venerable SM57) up nice and close but at about 45 degrees for a little bit of room and you'll be surprised at the results. I also try to record a nice heavy track with the tone on the guitar all the way down to thicken up the distortion sond. You can then blend it to what you desire - great for rythem and chord work in general.

To the OP - I think the guitars are way to clean. Ya need to get some grit in there my man

TelePaul

Last Angry Man wrote: »

To the OP - I think the guitars are way to clean. Ya need to get some grit in there my man

Clean is kinda what I was after. Doesn't always have to be overdriven.

Last Angry Man

TelePaul wrote: »

Clean is kinda what I was after. Doesn't always have to be overdriven.

No I understand and to each their own. I just think you can be TOO clean if that makes sense? A little bit of clunk would sound great IMO. Not overdrive just a bit of warming ya know?

TelePaul

Last Angry Man wrote: »

No I understand and to each their own. I just think you can be TOO clean if that makes sense? A little bit of clunk would sound great IMO. Not overdrive just a bit of warming ya know?

Hmmm. Kinda...I mean there's this problem that everyone faces with recording when someone wants more 'clunk' or 'warming'. Similarly, when a bass is described as 'too bassy'! To me, 'clunk' would suggest EQing in a little more low end and 'warming' would suggest bring up the upper-mids a little - neither which affects the gain-staging, you know? Like I hear what your saying, but having played a little with the settings, I think the guitar's quite responsive to digging in...there's more distortion needed in the 'mix', because the drums are very clean, but that'll hopefully come later with harmonica and a shure bullet mic.

Last Angry Man

TelePaul wrote: »

Hmmm. Kinda...I mean there's this problem that everyone faces with recording when someone wants more 'clunk' or 'warming'. Similarly, when a bass is described as 'too bassy'! To me, 'clunk' would suggest EQing in a little more low end and 'warming' would suggest bring up the upper-mids a little - neither which affects the gain-staging, you know? Like I hear what your saying, but having played a little with the settings, I think the guitar's quite responsive to digging in...there's more distortion needed in the 'mix', because the drums are very clean, but that'll hopefully come later with harmonica and a shure bullet mic.

I disagree and it comes back to you original post. I think you need to capture good guitar tone at source. You can tweek it with EQ but I know I can't much with EQ - that said I am self taught and not all that experienced but I do get reasonable mixes. Must post something now that I think of it. Bass on the other hand I think you can eq to bits to get what you want because of where it sits in you range of hearing.

TelePaul

Last Angry Man wrote: »

I disagree and it comes back to you original post. I think you need to capture good guitar tone at source. You can tweek it with EQ but I know I can't much with EQ - that said I am self taught and not all that experienced but I do get reasonable mixes. Must post something now that I think of it. Bass on the other hand I think you can eq to bits to get what you want because of where it sits in you range of hearing.

Maybe I wasn't very clear, sorry! You suggested the guitars could be warmer...for me, even the wording of that would suggest a frequency issue, not a gain issue. Either way, they sound pretty close to the way I intended them to sound...that's the beauty of home studios, you get to act as your own producer!

As an aside, I wouldn't write-off EQing guitars, especially acoustic! As for electrics, the problem here is that they occupy the same frequencies as a snare drum and the human voice; if you've two rhythm guitars, two vocal takes, and a snare drum, you've five instruments competing for the same space in a mix.

BumbleB

TelePaul wrote: »

Maybe I wasn't very clear, sorry! You suggested the guitars could be warmer...for me, even the wording of that would suggest a frequency issue, not a gain issue. Either way, they sound pretty close to the way I intended them to sound...that's the beauty of home studios, you get to act as your own producer!

As an aside, I wouldn't write-off EQing guitars, especially acoustic! As for electrics, the problem here is that they occupy the same frequencies as a snare drum and the human voice; if you've two rhythm guitars, two vocal takes, and a snare drum, you've five instruments competing for the same space in a mix.

Well you can pan a little off as well to create space . I think the guitar sounds perfect for that tune personally .The drum does lack the shuffle which you need really to play blues correctly . The only criticism I would have is one thing ,when you shift position from the 1st pentatonic box position you go for the obvious kind of bends that everybody goes for.

TelePaul

BumbleB wrote: »

Well you can pan a little off as well to create space . I think the guitar sounds perfect for that tune personally .The drum does lack the shuffle which you need really to play blues correctly . The only criticism I would have is one thing ,when you shift position from the 1st pentatonic box position you go for the obvious kind of bends that everybody goes for.

Uhmmm, okay...kinda know what you mean...I think! Any chance you could give a time reference if you find yourself free? On some of the licks I bring in 'other notes', possibly an F#? And there's some pre-bending as well (both on the humbucker track). But I'm really not very well up on my theory, so I do tend to noodle around bith that E blues thing...

BumbleB

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Two statements in one post that raises my eyebrow! Explain!!??

It's great sounding amp modeller I don't need a backline but you need to buy the supermodels series of presets as the stock presets are crap .I played the digitech gnx4 in the berklee music theatre and when I was soundchecking a group of students from the music college asked me where was my amp ,they were looking for the amp behind the curtains . People who play in covers band love these things , because yer man in the USA can make you a fantastic patch for any song you want.

PaulBrewer

BumbleB wrote: »

It's great sounding amp modeller I don't need a backline but you need to buy the supermodels series of presets as the stock presets are crap .I played the digitech gnx4 in the berklee music theatre and when I was soundchecking a group of students from the music college asked me where was my amp ,they were looking for the amp behind the curtains . People who play in covers band love these things , because yer man in the USA can make you a fantastic patch for any song you want.

Ok, you just might have wriggled out of that one .... it is, after all an opinion with no absolute right or wrong.

However 'Flat Response Monitors' ?

BumbleB

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Ok, you just might have wriggled out of that one .... it is, after all an opinion with no absolute right or wrong.

However 'Flat Response Monitors' ?

krk ,adams ,Events .

Brien

after listening again, im left wondering where the vox are gonna fit in. i really love the avt's but there is a time and place for everything. also, do you have a mix with the new bass?

TelePaul

Brien wrote: »

after listening again, im left wondering where the vox are gonna fit in. i really love the avt's but there is a time and place for everything. also, do you have a mix with the new bass?

Hiya. Don't have any progress to report on this yet, will let ya know.

son.of.jimi

I'm workin on a track at the moment and i'm gonna be using a line 6 spider II and a marshall TSL... the line 6 for the the clean and then the TSL for the *balls* in the main rhythm and lead...

population

OP

What guitar did you use?

Can I guess Strat???

TelePaul

population wrote: »

OP

What guitar did you use?

Can I guess Strat???

Well, not a Strat but ya could be forgiven for guessing! The rhythm was cut on a Nashville Deluxe Tele (strat pickup in the centre!). One rhythm track in the 4th position, one rhythm track in the 2nd position.

The lead was played on a Yamaha Pacifica 412; Humbucker and two single coils. Pacificas are some of the best guitars out there. Even the 112 series get more hand-hours than an American strat. Snappy lead in the neck, Humbucker in the bridge provides the more nasally sounds on the track.