Rugby Referees

Bren1609

After watching all the six nations matches for the first time and by my own admission I dont know alot about the sport in general but my observation is that the standard of the referees in rugby is much higher than that of soccer or GAA. The way the ref speaks to the captains if his team or players are out of line and you can also hear what he's saying. There's no bithcing or whining from the players, everyone knows the rules and just gets on with it.

I definetely think the other two sports can learn alot from this.

Orion

It's not just that. You can be penalised yardage or have a penalty reversed for dissent. Something soccer could definitely do with.

Territory is everything in rugby, so if you back chat to the ref you risk getting pinged for it and consequently putting the opponent kicker into range. There is a very real possibility of conceding three points.

Its hard to think of an equivalent for soccer. Yes you could give away a free kick, but in the grand scheme of things its not as damaging to the team.

delta_bravo

The problem with Gaelic Football is that there is so much refereeing inconsistency due to basic problems with the rules. For example, there are no exact set rules to what is a correct tackle. People can get harsly penalised for innocuous tackles whereas some people get off with career ending tackles. For example: (this was not given even as a foul)

I play both gaelic football and rugby and the levels of respect to referees are totally different. I suppose most of this begins at an early age. Players can get penalised yards are even get sent off for dissent in gaelic football but it does little to effect the respect the referees get. It seems even worse in soccer with managers even at the highest level criticising the referees decisions, this simply doesnt happen in rugby or even gaelic football but rugby is definitely the model for these sports to follow

Ginja Ninja

as I've said before(I don't know how to link to a particular post)
Basically,is it the type of people that play the sport?take soccer (example only) many of the players are from disadvantaged areas (roy keane-jobstown)
and so have the general attitude of these usual (stereotype I know) but "the anto's" of the sporting world.
As for ref's they don't have an easy job tou can get away woth a lot in a scrum/ruck that the ref has to watch.And put simply people die playing rugby extreme cases yes,but it is a very real possibility, as a hooker especially to be seriously injured if you don't stay within the rules

MrsJohnMurphy

I aint a Rugby fan but I don't dislike it either but the ref thing with me seems all a bit staged, it appears to me as if the ref is directing the game a bit sometimes. I don't think hearing the refs comments during a game on TV adds to watching a game on TV at all.

I remember watching some games back in the 80s and the Rugby seemed to be alot more free flowing and open then, but now it seems to be a bit more like NFL re yardage etc than it was then.

ps. Ginja Ninja your attitude stinks re "Antos", I think that kind of attitude is what holds Rugby back. You come across as some kinda idiot caricature from a R.O.C.K. book.

mjm

Ginja Ninja

MrsJohnMurphy wrote: »

ps. Ginja Ninja your attitude stinks re "Antos", I think that kind of attitude is what holds Rugby back. You come across as some kinda idiot caricature from a R.O.C.K. book.

Not to start a flame war but ,I laughed so hard when I saw this I'm a farmer's son from the west of Ireland and don't actually play rugby (yet).But I don't mean that everyone who plays soccer is a yob,But I've never seen or heard of a thug playing rugby but soccer on the other hand has the "football hooligans" we all know of ,whereas rugby (possibly due to the famed elitism) doesen't have these problems

Tim Robbins

Bren1609 wrote: »

There's no bithcing or whining from the players, everyone knows the rules and just gets on with it.

Try reffing two J4 teams. Some clubs in Dublin are bloody awful the amount of abuse they give refs.

The thing is, Rugby has some built in laws which mean if you give lip to the ref, it will cost your team.

Good teams generally don't give the ref lip but cr*p teams who loose every week do. They just don't cop on that giving the ref lip means you can loose.

At the higher levels of Rugby where there can be little to separate players, if a player gives lip he's out of the team. If Flan gave refs lip and cost Ireland 6 points per game he'd be out of the team and Best would play.

So have a look at the Leinsterugby website and pick some teams at the bottom of the table in the lower leagues. I guarentee you their players give the ref lip and their coach probably joins in.

MrsJohnMurphy

Ginja Ninja wrote: »

But I don't mean that everyone who plays soccer is a yob,But I've never seen or heard of a thug playing rugby but soccer on the other hand has the "football hooligans" we all know of ,whereas rugby (possibly due to the famed elitism) doesen't have these problems

Agreed that refs do seem to be well respected in rugby, but in soccer anyone who abuses or touches a ref will get a very lengthy ban. But when it comes to officials and players attacking refs and eachother, the GAA wins hands down and any ban will be appealed away etc.

Btw the whole hooligans thing it totally blown out of proportion when it is reoprted by the tabloid media, there are plenty of rows between fans at GAA games and have heard recent reports of scraps between opposing teen groups after Rugby school cups games but the tabloid media turn a blind eye. Similar in England, there is loads of trouble between fans usually a few miles from the ground before games, but again the media turns a blind eye.

mjm

Sangre

MrsJohnMurphy wrote: »

I aint a Rugby fan but I don't dislike it either but the ref thing with me seems all a bit staged, it appears to me as if the ref is directing the game a bit sometimes. I don't think hearing the refs comments during a game on TV adds to watching a game on TV at all.

Its nice to know what the penalty/free kick/scrum is for, especially since many people don't know all the referee hand signals. A scrum or penalty can be given for a number of things. Lots of penalties happen at the bottom of a maul/ruck so you can't see what it was for, unlike most other sports. Also gives an indication when a team should or is likely to get a yellow.

I remember watching some games back in the 80s and the Rugby seemed to be alot more free flowing and open then, but now it seems to be a bit more like NFL re yardage etc than it was then.

Teams are better today, their defensive and fitness ability is much higher thus reducing line breaks and free flowing rugby in evenly matched teams. Makes the breaks you do see all the more impressive.

Podge_irl

There was a really interesting discussion on the radio shortly after the RWC 07 final with Alain Rolland and two Irish refs from GAA and soccer. It was about refereeing in each of their sports and it was quite informative. The soccer and GAA refs certainly seemed to envy the respect accorded the ref in rugby, though they had differing views on whether they would like to see refs miked up. Refs certainly have far less power to stop dissent on field in GAA and soccer though. Marching teams back 10m is a pretty large punishment as territory is more important in rugby then the other sports. I recall Munster beating Leicester in the opening round of the HEC in 2007 I think because Jennings had a verbal outburst after conceeding the penalty in the final minute. The ref marched them back 10 metres and put the kick within O'Gara's range, which he duly slotted for Munster to win by a point or two.

Mind you, with regards your opening point about the standard of referees. I'm not sure that's any different, there are good and bad refs across all the sports. I do think the communication in rugby between officials and players is something for the other two sports to look up to.

twinytwo

MrsJohnMurphy wrote: »

I aint a Rugby fan but I don't dislike it either but the ref thing with me seems all a bit staged, it appears to me as if the ref is directing the game a bit sometimes. I don't think hearing the refs comments during a game on TV adds to watching a game on TV at all.

I remember watching some games back in the 80s and the Rugby seemed to be alot more free flowing and open then, but now it seems to be a bit more like NFL re yardage etc than it was then.

ps. Ginja Ninja your attitude stinks re "Antos", I think that kind of attitude is what holds Rugby back. You come across as some kinda idiot caricature from a R.O.C.K. book.

mjm

Lol.. back then they used to stop the game every 5 seconds

twinytwo

Podge_irl wrote: »

There was a really interesting discussion on the radio shortly after the RWC 07 final with Alain Rolland and two Irish refs from GAA and soccer. It was about refereeing in each of their sports and it was quite informative. The soccer and GAA refs certainly seemed to envy the respect accorded the ref in rugby, though they had differing views on whether they would like to see refs miked up. Refs certainly have far less power to stop dissent on field in GAA and soccer though. Marching teams back 10m is a pretty large punishment as territory is more important in rugby then the other sports. I recall Munster beating Leicester in the opening round of the HEC in 2007 I think because Jennings had a verbal outburst after conceeding the penalty in the final minute. The ref marched them back 10 metres and put the kick within O'Gara's range, which he duly slotted for Munster to win by a point or two.

Mind you, with regards your opening point about the standard of referees. I'm not sure that's any different, there are good and bad refs across all the sports. I do think the communication in rugby between officials and players is something for the other two sports to look up to.

True.. remember the old bald dude that used ref the soccer who didnt take **** from anyone

anonymous_joe

twinytwo wrote: »

Lol.. back then they used to stop the game every 5 seconds

Yeah but hte players were all overweight amateurs who wouldn't have been able to tell a blitz defense from a dritf defense.

Jip

As an aside to this

Ginja Ninja wrote: »

(roy keane-jobstown)

Roy Keane is most definately not from Jobstown. However, if you're getting mixed up with the other R Keane, he aint from Jobstown either.

RuggieBear

matt goddard, a Ref from the super 14 was suspended there due to a really bad performance. he carded 5 players and dominated the game at the weekend. They decided to review his further participation for the next round or two....lol

Some of his previous efforts includes reffing a test match between Argentina and Italy which had 30 penalties and 40 scrums!!!:D

There are the good the bad and the ugly reffing all sports

Noopti

RuggieBear wrote: »

matt goddard, a Ref from the super 14 was suspended there due to a really bad performance. he carded 5 players and dominated the game at the weekend. They decided to review his further participation for the next round or two....lol

Some of his previous efforts includes reffing a test match between Argentina and Italy which had 30 penalties and 40 scrums!!!:D

There are the good the bad and the ugly reffing all sports

That Bulls/Canes game seemed to just spiral out of control. Goddard was extremely whistle happy and kept referring to the game as "his". That is, he kept saying things like "this is my match", "my breakdown" etc etc and I'd say this got right up the noses of the players. They then seemed to sort of rebel against him, and he retaliated with cards. This seems to have been a combination of bad refereeing combined with players taking it as far as they could in spite of it.

And I can honestly see how an Argentina/Italy game could get result in a lot of penalities. They are two of the dirtiest teams in the world at times.

RuggieBear

Noopti wrote: »

That Bulls/Canes game seemed to just spiral out of control. Goddard was extremely whistle happy and kept referring to the game as "his". That is, he kept saying things like "this is my match", "my breakdown" etc etc and I'd say this got right up the noses of the players. They then seemed to sort of rebel against him, and he retaliated with cards. This seems to have been a combination of bad refereeing combined with players taking it as far as they could in spite of it.

I missed it unfortunately but it does sound like it became a bit of a petulant spitefest alright.

Noopti wrote: »

And I can honestly see how an Argentina/Italy game could get result in a lot of penalities. They are two of the dirtiest teams in the world at times.

lol. very true.

curts82

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Try reffing two J4 teams. Some clubs in Dublin are bloody awful the amount of abuse they give refs.

The thing is, Rugby has some built in laws which mean if you give lip to the ref, it will cost your team.

Good teams generally don't give the ref lip but cr*p teams who loose every week do. They just don't cop on that giving the ref lip means you can loose.

At the higher levels of Rugby where there can be little to separate players, if a player gives lip he's out of the team. If Flan gave refs lip and cost Ireland 6 points per game he'd be out of the team and Best would play.

So have a look at the Leinsterugby website and pick some teams at the bottom of the table in the lower leagues. I guarentee you their players give the ref lip and their coach probably joins in.

I agree!!Some J1 teams in divison 2 & 3 in Munster are unrea for abuse!

thebossanova

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Try reffing two J4 teams. Some clubs in Dublin are bloody awful the amount of abuse they give refs.

Seconded. But Stillorgan qualify as a Dublin team by location only...:D
Actually it's usually the team who starts losing that starts giving abuse and make the situation worse for themselves by getting the ref offside.

Then again sometimes they have a point. I don't know what they teach at the Leinster Branch Referee's annual shindigs, but they should go over interpretation of the breakdown a bit more...:rolleyes:

Then again I appreciate that the ref's are there because they love the game as well...

So many points of view can be taken on this....