RACE TALK

biker_joe

Hi all,
Am new here... been racing on and off for a few years. I am prosposing that
we create this thread for talk about road racing, up coming races, tips ... and of course post race analysis !! I usually have a race going around in my head for about 3-4 days !! ha ha... should da, could da, would da !!


Any thoughts Guys and Girls ?

Biker Joe.

blorg

Probably best create a new thread for each race, keeps the discussion together. I have been on Boards for a while but have only started racing this year, so I am a newbie in this regard, have lots to learn. Few other guys I know on here have just started racing recently also.

Oh, and welcome to Boards!

biker_joe

thks Blorg

yea sounds good, specific threads for a given race, but maybe keep this one for general race talk ????

Biker Joe

danburke

Of what I remember from racing

Tip 1: Learn to draft.. you can save alot of energy sitting on somebodies wheel

Tip 2: Attack 50-100m before the crest of a hill

Thats about the extent of what I can remember at the moment

RobFowl

As an ex irish team manager said in a pre race pep talk at the worlds, "right lads, just hang on as long as you can !!!"

smithslist

RobFowl wrote: »

As an ex irish team manager said in a pre race pep talk at the worlds, "right lads, just hang on as long as you can !!!"

Quality

Chips Lovell

RobFowl wrote: »

As an ex irish team manager said in a pre race pep talk at the worlds, "right lads, just hang on as long as you can !!!"

It's actually not bad advice for newcomers though. One thing that struck me was how much the pace of a race can ebb and flow. So you could find yourself hanging on for dear life and wondering whether it was worth your while prolonging the agony and then suddenly find that it had eased up a bit. But once you're out the back, you've no hope of getting back on.

Freddy687

If you are new to racing staying in the bunch can be a bit daunting. I know that I am not great in this regard, but if you can start in the first third you will have a better chance of staying in the group.
Depending on the race the fast guys will try and break very early, if they get away and the group decides not to chase, the pace will settle and you will have a better chance of lasting the distance.
Also if you are in the first third on a hill you have a better chance of still being in the bunch at the top.
Like el tonto said once off the back race over.

sy

Freddy687 wrote: »

If you are new to racing staying in the bunch can be a bit daunting. I know that I am not great in this regard, but if you can start in the first third you will have a better chance of staying in the group.
Depending on the race the fast guys will try and break very early, if they get away and the group decides not to chase, the pace will settle and you will have a better chance of lasting the distance.
Also if you are in the first third on a hill you have a better chance of still being in the bunch at the top.
Like el tonto said once off the back race over.

Very good advice. Tonto refers to the ebb and flow of a race and this is why you must stay in the front third at all costs. The snake effect when you hid a 90 degree turn will eventually split the last third as they have to break early and then chase hard out of the bend. Then somebody lets a wheel go and you have to go around them etc. It is actually easier at the front than trying to hang on near the back and its also safer, especially in the C Races :eek: where most of the back pack are experimenting with racing for the first time. Better to blow in the front third of the group where you can attack the hills and corners, see the potholes:) and reduce the risk of crashing than to drift off the back because somebody lets a wheel go.

Chips Lovell

Leading on from sy's comment, the other golden rule is never let a gap open. All those little efforts spent closing them add up in the end. If the guy in front of you has, you shout at him to close it. If he doesn't, you go round him and close it yourself (and glance over your shoulder first lest you take out someone coming up from behind).

biker_joe

Some good tips there lads.... I usually try be at the front, or even better up the road, where's it's even better !
But unfortunately I have let a few wheels go this season, due to lack of race fitness !
But the other things that the newer lads should learn, is to call before passing, especially on the inside left of the bunch, I usually give a should of "on yer inside" when going up a gap on the inside !!! prevents nasty events, with a bit of courtesy !
And a small hand gesture to signal right or left when trying to move up the bunch .... prevents switching, which is probably the biggest cause of crashes in the bunch .....

Biker Joe

Hungrycol

Don't be afraid to use your voice. If you see a hole or obstruction to the left, right or middle then call it for the safety of others behind you.

Don't slam on brakes.

Slow down on corners and cut the apex.

The hardest of all is trying to get the group to work together with everyone taking their turn at the front. You will always get freeloaders but if ure struggling at the back then say so. They'll be more understanding of your trying to hang on then looking like you're saving all you energy for the last km.

Raam

In my first race, I found that most people in my bunch weren't bothering to work at all. At the start I was nervous so I hung around the back, but then after a bit I got comfortable and was happy to move up and take some pulls. If you're the new boy, like I was, is it bad form to be telling people to get their ass in gear, so to speak? I was there to look and learn and get some experience so I didn't think it was my place to be giving instructions. I was very surprised that there was no one prepared to marshal the bunch into action. One guy had a go at it briefly but it seemed most weren't listening to him.

biker_joe

Well Raam, it seems like a good opportunity for a few of you to get away ....
If you get 5 lads or more working, or guys that you know are strong, try an organise something yourselves ....

the best to find out who is strong, is the try and break from the bunch yourself, on a section of the circuit that you know either the bunch slows up, or at the bottom of a long drag ... and just get a few meters 50 - 100 and who see trys to get across to you ..... after a few weeks you'll know the numbers of the guys who are strong, and who you waste your valuable energy going across to ! then hopefully a few sucessful breaks !!

I can clearly see from the C races 3-4 lads who you should be watchin ! they would be some of the Super Vets that some were talking of ... if you get away with some of them, you'll learn alot .... and don't be afraid to ask them what to do, or how to ride ... but don't be suckered into doing all the work !!!

biker joe

Chips Lovell

One of the things I've found out so far is that learning to work together is probably a key skill for new racers, especially since most of us are cutting our teeth in club league races which are handicapped. If you don't work together, you don't have a hope of staying away.

My experience so far is that you've a small group of riders willing to take their turn at the front and a whole bunch of freeloaders who are either a.) unwilling to work, b.) unaware of the whole concept of co-operating or c.) just too toasted to take a pull.

Our first club league race this year was a case in point. There was about six or seven people who started to work right from the off. Even though I'm pretty new to the scene I ended up doing a bit of shouting (and I think barrabus and blorg got in on the act). If we didn't speak up nobody was going to and there was no way we were going to pull all those bozos around the whole way.

@Raam. You've got to remember that most of the guys in your bunch are probably as green as you are. Probably best to start trying to organise things if no one else is going to step up.

Hungrycol

Oh, spits or snots. Keep them low and out of the way!! I'll never forget a race last year the guy ahead of me did little spits over his shoulder consistantly, like a nervous twitch. I was well miffed.

sy

biker_joe wrote: »

the best to find out who is strong, is the try and break from the bunch yourself, on a section of the circuit that you know either the bunch slows up, or at the bottom of a long drag ... and just get a few meters 50 - 100 and who see trys to get across to you ..... after a few weeks you'll know the numbers of the guys who are strong, and who you waste your valuable energy going across to ! then hopefully a few sucessful breaks !!
biker joe

Great advice here Biker Joe. Just be careful l that your not suckered into doing all the work especially if one of the super vets is dishing out the praise! Speaking from experience here as I remember one of my C races when I started (many years ago:rolleyes:) where I attacked off the front only to be joined by a certain Seamus Kennedy (whom I didn't know at the time) who was very encouraging in his directives much to the detriment of my legs and you can guess the rest :pac: Kennedy and Sonny Cullen(RIP) were riding us into the ground in those years but we learned a lot from them. Perfect gentlemen who gave advice and encouragement after every race. So make sure to get to know those super vets and get chatting.

biker_joe

Seasmus Kennedy ! that's a bit before my time, so you must be one of the Super Vets !! ha ha so I will careful with my next comment !!

As i said in my earlier post, did get suckered into doing all the work !! and watch for lads not riding through in the last few kms ! but yes indeed, the Vets are usually very clever and efficient (should we say) in their riding !

So something to keep in mind !

it's not always the lad with the strongest legs who wins the race !

Biker Joe

zzzzzzzz

el tonto wrote: »

One of the things I've found out so far is that learning to work together is probably a key skill for new racers, especially since most of us are cutting our teeth in club league races which are handicapped. If you don't work together, you don't have a hope of staying away.

My experience so far is that you've a small group of riders willing to take their turn at the front and a whole bunch of freeloaders who are either a.) unwilling to work, b.) unaware of the whole concept of co-operating or c.) just too toasted to take a pull.

Our first club league race this year was a case in point. There was about six or seven people who started to work right from the off. Even though I'm pretty new to the scene I ended up doing a bit of shouting (and I think barrabus and blorg got in on the act). If we didn't speak up nobody was going to and there was no way we were going to pull all those bozos around the whole way.

@Raam. You've got to remember that most of the guys in your bunch are probably as green as you are. Probably best to start trying to organise things if no one else is going to step up.

That race you're talking about was my first race and as inexperienced as I am - I still felt I should tell people to work if they weren't working or to close gaps when they let them open. Two blokes in the group in particular kept slowing up to have a chat and letting gaps open. It's a race ffs!

Anyway - in hindsight I think that some of the people we were telling to work just didn't have the legs and I think they were dropped fairly soon after a decent rotation got going at the front.

Really looking forward to the 9th - and I'm starting to regret not doing any of the open races so far this season...

Chips Lovell

I think it's worth trying to get everyone to work at the start at least. Even if the bunch sticks together for only the first 10km or so you're better off getting the benefit of 20 odd riders taking turns than just five or six working together.

I'm going to miss the 9th because I'll still be on my secret EPO training camp holiday in Spain. I'll be back for the 10 mile TT the following week.

victorcarrera

Clubmates/Friends wont try to pull each other back. Organised Clubs will sometimes try to control the speed of the chasing group to allow the break to stay away. Listen for timing gaps from marshals/spectators so as not to start the chase too late. If you havent got clubmates or friends in the race try to break away to about 100 meters @ about 80% effort for a few minutes. If there are any like minded riders in the group with the experience and ability they will know what you are at and come across to you. Otherwise save your legs for the gallop at the end. IMO considering the effort in training and preparation I would rather go home tired having tried than sit in the bunch for a few hours. I wasted two sunday mornings last year sitting in the armchair. Never again. Have a calculated go. You will feel better for it.

Colmhayden76

Another way to figure out if a break is going for it is watch us in the Commisar car,
If we shoot off down the road it's so we can time the break . (obviously) When we do it more frequently on the same break the escapees are working together and we are timming to figure out when we let a service car up which is depending on the course between 1 minute and 1and a half.
An other good one is mark the home club racers, their best guys usually save themselves for photos in the local paper. If 1 of them goes and you know a bit about him watch his team mates body languge. Case in point in Carrick on Paddys day 2 from the hosts went with 7 others with 25 to go and they were the top 7 places from them .If you get shelled out the back you will be screwed and totaly alone in case of brake down or puncture.We record dropped riders nos in the car & of the 97 that started the combined in Carrick a good 40 were shelled out . The braver ones were still crossing the line as the presentations began!!
If I can help with rule queries just pm me but please note don't be too specific about actual races as |I cannot make any thing offical about them;);)

sy

biker_joe wrote: »

Seasmus Kennedy ! that's a bit before my time, so you must be one of the Super Vets !! ha ha so I will careful with my next comment !!....
Biker Joe

In my dreams... Yes a vet but not racing haven't the time to get race fit. Maybe next year;)

biker_joe

ah Sy,
I know it's hard to find the time ..... I became a new Dad middle of last year, so while I have been training and trying to race :eek:, i think the lack of sleep is now beginning to catch up with me !! :mad:

But I hope you are back in the bunch soon !!!

Biker Joe