Gambling using borrowed money?

mikemac

I don't carry that much cash at all like many others.
Most times I'm in a shop I'd use a Laser card or credit card for just about every transaction unless it was very small like a few euro.
The shops don't mind and it's convenient for me

Tried to buy a 10 euro Euromillions quickpick and was told I can't charge that to a credit card. I had to go to an ATM, withdraw cash and pay for the lotto that way.
I was told using a credit card was borrowing money.

I know the lotto is a seperate till.
But is there actually legislation on that gambling transactions must be paid in cash?
I'm interested to know so I don't do this in a shop again

seamus

Actually that would be interesting to know. It makes sense that a bank wouldn't be allowed to give you a loan for gambling purposes - you'd have people getting loans for thousands of euro to spend in the bookies.

Though I wonder where that leaves poker sites, as their cash comes directly from people's credit cards. Many of them even have an "auto" facility where it'll debit your card when your account drops below a certain amount.

lynchie

seamus wrote: »

Actually that would be interesting to know. It makes sense that a bank wouldn't be allowed to give you a loan for gambling purposes - you'd have people getting loans for thousands of euro to spend in the bookies.

Though I wonder where that leaves poker sites, as their cash comes directly from people's credit cards. Many of them even have an "auto" facility where it'll debit your card when your account drops below a certain amount.

yeah, that would be as mad as to suggest a bank giving its customers loans to gamble and buy shares in itself!!

Our man in Havana

lynchie wrote: »

yeah, that would be as mad as to suggest a bank giving its customers loans to gamble and buy shares in itself!!

Oh wait that has happened.

WRT poker sites and credit cards, could it be argued in court that such a debt is unenforceable as all gambling debts are unenforceable?

djk1000

As far as I recall, it's illegal to gamble on credit, that is the bookie giving you credit for instance. I reckon the lotto people are just being uber cautious in their interpretation. I also think that buying alcoholic beverages on credit is illegal here too.

ntlbell

seamus wrote: »

Actually that would be interesting to know. It makes sense that a bank wouldn't be allowed to give you a loan for gambling purposes - you'd have people getting loans for thousands of euro to spend in the bookies.

Though I wonder where that leaves poker sites, as their cash comes directly from people's credit cards. Many of them even have an "auto" facility where it'll debit your card when your account drops below a certain amount.

but you could just go to the ATM and withdraw cash from the credit card and use it anyway you see fit?

doesn't make sense.

seamus

ntlbell wrote: »

but you could just go to the ATM and withdraw cash from the credit card and use it anyway you see fit?

doesn't make sense.

Well, the idea of "illegal to gamble on credit" sounds like it would be the law. It would be interesting to know the actual legislation on this - it may be that the person giving the loan or the person accepting the money are not knowingly permitted to allow the gambler to gamble on credit. If someone arrives in the bookies with a wad of cash in their hand, where it came from is none of the bookies' concern.

Much the same, you can go into a bank and get a "personal" loan for almost anything. Last time I got one they didn't even ask me what I needed it for. So you could say that it's a holiday or home improvement loan and then take a holiday in the bookies

Actually I'm pretty sure a bookie or a gambler could clear this one up - do bookies take credit cards?

ntlbell

seamus wrote: »

Well, the idea of "illegal to gamble on credit" sounds like it would be the law. It would be interesting to know the actual legislation on this - it may be that the person giving the loan or the person accepting the money are not knowingly permitted to allow the gambler to gamble on credit. If someone arrives in the bookies with a wad of cash in their hand, where it came from is none of the bookies' concern.

Much the same, you can go into a bank and get a "personal" loan for almost anything. Last time I got one they didn't even ask me what I needed it for. So you could say that it's a holiday or home improvement loan and then take a holiday in the bookies

Actually I'm pretty sure a bookie or a gambler could clear this one up - do bookies take credit cards?

would paddy power taken credit cards online qualify?

jhegarty

I presume the reason is because the shop doesn't want to pay the credit/laser card charges on the low margins of the lotto.

Gary ITR

I'd say it was due to the fact that the Lotto machine wasn't linked to the terminal. This is the case in a lot of stores

diverdriver

I think it is to do with the fact the Lotto till is separate from the shop till. Using a debit or credit card to buy a lotto and you would be in effect paying the shop for the ticket. The shop is merely an agent and only sells on behalf of the lotto. If there's legislation at all it's that. There is also the fact that every credit or debit card transaction costs the shop money.

As for gambling on credit. Well I did it today. It won too.

Victor

Gambling debts are unenforable in court.

I suspect the Lotto thing is a matter of vaguely trying to be socially responsible.

fliptzer

Technically you can't borrow for gambling, however what could have happened is the shop just decided not to take lazer/credit card for lotto.

the margin on lotto is 6% - which is really bad for a shop. (average margin should be 15-30%)
the credit card charges 2-2.5% of the transaction value
margin drops to 3.5-4% after charge.

(laser is anywhere from 19c - 49c per transaction)

It doesn't make commercial sence to take credit cards for lotto and bustickets - most places do just to keep customers happy.

Our man in Havana

Laser is typically no more than 25 cent per transaction even for low turnover merchants. Whoever is paying 49 cent needs their head examined.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Victor wrote: »

Gambling debts are unenforable in court.

Yes but your debt to your credit card company is not a gambling debt. It is just a debt.

Our man in Havana

That is something that has not yet been tested in court yet.

fearandloathing

you can go into any betting shop and place a bet using credit/debit card just the same as you would pay cash for a bet at the counter so there definately isnt any law against gambling on credit.

silverharp

I'd say it is more to do with the credit card commission

dermot_sheehan

An issue might be that since gaming contracts are void and unenforceable, if the contract creating the debt was argued to be part of the gaming contract it too would be unenforeceable.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1956/en/act/pub/0002/sec0036.html#zza2y1956s36

Our man in Havana

Say in a completely hypothetical situation a gambler uses his BOI mastercard to gamble €5k with paddypower or other such bookmaker online. He looses and is left with a €5k bill form BOI credit card services. He doesn't pay and BOI issue a civil summons. Would our gambler have a defence that the debt is unenforceable?

It is a very interesting topic to say the least.