Revised Time Goal?

Cerlan

Hey guys,

Looking for a bit of advice from anyone who has run a 4 hour marathon before. I've been following a training plan for the Cork marathon with the goal of finishing it in under 4 hours. It's my first marathon and have been running less than a year. Only 9 weeks to go till the marathon now. I've skipped quite a few midweek runs but have done all of the long runs. I ran 18 miles last week in 3hrs 6mins.

My problem is that I do not think I will be able to run 9 minute miles in the marathon, especially with the pace that I am doing my long runs. I managed to do 8 9 minute miles on Saturday but that was me flat out, and my heart rate was pretty high by the end of it. My question is, is there any hope of me improving enough in 9 weeks to make the 4 hours or should I revise my time goal downwards?

Thanks guys,

Cerlan

RacoonQueen

If it was me, running my first marathon and not running long, I wouldn't set any time goals in fear I'd end up disappointed.

--amadeus--

Everyone worries about pace on thier first, don't panic!

First up 9 weeks is still loads of time, you have 6 or 7 weeks of quality training left before you start to taper so stay focussed and try and hit all of the remaining runs in your schedule (which plan are you following by the way?)

And your long run pace is fine! Whatever else you do do *not* run them at race pace.You should be aiming at keeping your LSR pace anything between 30 seconds and 20% slower than your race pace. For a sub 4 marathon I'd be recommending LSRs no faster than 10 min/miles so you are bang on teh money with your 18.

At which point you say "but if the longest I'm running is 20 miles at 10 min/mile pace how will I manage 26 at 9 min/mile pace?"

Well all the runs on your schedule (if it's a good one) have a point and purpose, they all train different attributes. Your LSRS are designed to boost your overall aerobic fitness, promote economy of movement and teach your body to use fat as a fuel. They aren't about pace or speed they are about building endurance. Speed comes in your shorter, faster midweek runs. You build the two separately in training and (combined with teh taper and race atmosphere) they combine for your race pace and distance on the day.

Cerlan

Cheers for the replies lads,

I'm aware it's probably a bit ambitious to set time goals on my first marathon but I'm the kind of person who needs to set some sort of goal otherwise I'll have nothing to work towards.

I'm following the beginners plan on the coolrunning website

http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_4/130.shtml

It has 5 days a week training but I've been averaging around 4. Will take your advice amadeus and see if I can up it to 5 days a week for the rest of the schedule. Could do with laying off the weekend boozing in any case!

Thanks for the feedback as to pace. Hard to judge what I should be doing sometimes, not having a previous run to base it on.

Cerlan

lecheile

Cerlan - not sure if its in your plan or not, but its always worth getting a race or two in before the big event. You can use them as training runs and get you into the swing of the race prep and participation. It sould also give you a bit more confidence when you start running competitively with others at your level.

http://www.runireland.com/ generally lists most of the events around the country.

Best of luck with the marathon.

--amadeus--

I've seen that schedule before - I think I even started to train for my first using it but it was a while back so I'm not sure

Anyway a couple of quick comments - I assume that you have adjusted the long run lengths so that you aren't running more than 20 miles in training? If not I'd strongly recommend you do. I'm not that convinced by that plan in general, tbh. It's not well balanced - week 13 for example has a 22 mile run but nothing else longer than 8 and is made up of 17 miles of shorter runs, 1*speed session and a 22 miler. It's all out of proportion - IMO your LSR shouldn't be making up over 50% of your total weekly distance. I personally would pull back teh LSRs as they describe but also progressively increase the length of one of teh midweek runs, if possible.

I'd second lecheile's advice on races as well - a couple of 10ks will get you used to race atmosphere, running in crowds and also give you an idea of your probable pace.

Cerlan

Cheers for the link lecheile, was thinking of doing the glengariff to bantry half marathon as preparation.

I know what you mean about that plan amadeus, the reason I picked it was because it had so many long runs of considerable distance. I wanted to be confident of completing the marathon and not just going out on a wing and a prayer! The idea of only running 18 miles once before the marathon seems a bit mad.

Was gonna go as far as the 24 mile mark but think I might take your advice and keep it to 20. Have my first 20 mile run planned for this weekend so might just do 3 more 20 milers at a slow pace and not go above that.

Seems like good advice on the midweek run too. Was skipping those 3 milers to be honest or adding them to another run during the week. How far should I up the midweek run to? 10 miles?

Thanks for the tips guys. Much appreciated.

--amadeus--

The generic advice is to ensure that your 5 longest runs total to around 100 miles. Usually this is 1*18, 3*20, 1*22. In my own case I am running Rotterdam in a couple of weeks so I have done 2*21 and 3*20. But that would normally apply to experienced runners who are planning on racing the distance rather than first timers who's primary goal will be to run the distance (there is a big difference between running a marathon and running it as fast as you can).

With 6 weeks left I would try and get at least two 20s under your belt. You're planning one this weekend so maybe 20 / 16 / 20 / 18 / 20 / 18 and then into the taper? If you feel able for it you could up teh middle 20 to 22.

You're right to drop the 3 miler if you are dropping anything but good to get in teh habit of running short / slow on recovery days. And up to 10 or even 12 midweek would be great as again it helps build your endurance. Try and run on hilly routes as much as possible as well.

Now the caveat - listen very carefully to your body at all times. You haven't been running very long and we are throwing about some pretty hefty mileage figures. You will feel stiff and achy - taht's pretty normal. But keep a very careful eye out for any pain, especially in your knees. The most common reason for not making a marathon (in my experience) is overuse injury. People develop CV fitness before they develop biomechanical strength. So thier heart, lungs (and to an extent muscles) are ready to do 30 - 40 mile weeks and 20 mile runs long before thier connective tissue (ligaments, tendons) and joints are. And that's where injuries come in. Take your time, rest if you need to, shorten some runs if you feel like it and you'll be fine.

rigal

Hi Cerlan,

I'm also doing my first marathon around the same time as you in Edinburgh on May 31st so I'm not on here to give you advice but just to share my experiences so far. My mate and I have been using the coolrunnings plan also.

Similar to you we dropped one of the mid-week runs and do a weights/circuits session instead. I found this has really helped my leg muscles stay loose and has also helped strengthen the core and upper body.

With regard to the speed workouts we haven't followed the plan exactly. We did a 10k race in February in which I only bettered my pre-training
(December) time slightly on the same course. At this point we weren't
doing much speed/tempo work at all and were struggling to keep up sub-9.30 miles on our long runs.

Since then we've done a fair few fartlek, tempo and track workouts and it has had a huge effect on our speed both in races and during the LSR. I finished the half in Connemarra on Sunday about 10 minutes faster than last year and felt great the whole race. I was surprised at how fast I was able to run and put this down to doing faster sessions each week along with the endurance runs.

Similar to what other posters have said we have been pretty strict about
not running if one of us felt particularly tired or sore. Hopefully we'll continue to stay injury free.

Our original target was sub 4 hours but now we're hoping to go sub 3.45 if we can trim down a bit. I know target times aren't recommended for first timers but I need a goal!

Best of luck with the training.

R

Cerlan

Cheers for the advice amadeus. Will do what you suggest with the long runs. Running the distance before the marathon seems a bit excessive alright.

Suffered from runner's knee when I first started running and it has been giving me a twinge or two again the last few days. Icing it and have slowed my pace so hopefully I can keep that under control. Had me out for a few weeks the last time and can't afford that again.

Rigal, sounds like you're well on the way to a sub 4 with those sort of training times. Think my main problem has been my reluctance to give up my weekend boozing. have been squeezing all my runs in during the week, and the long one on a friday so i can have a few pints saturday. that has slowed me down badly the following week so gonna try and stay clear of booze til the marathon now!

Will add in a few more speed sessions once my knee clears up to see if I can improve my time as you did....