Feeling incredibaly low and unworthy all the time

LegacyUser

Note: I am a registered member here but would rather not reveal my identity. I'm sure the admins know who I am with their IP thingy but I'd prefer if they didn't say who I am.

Basically here is the story.

I'm in my early twentys and male. For over a year now I've been feeling low all the time. I have constant feelings of guilt and feel really sorry for myself all the time. I haven't done anything to warrant feeling particularly guilty but I just can't help it. Anytime I think of old things I've done I cringe up and feel extremely pathetic. I don't really know how to articulate it but I feel so unworthy its unreal. I go for long walks on my own and crave isolation. I've feelings of paranoia constantly when in public places, I either think someone is staring at me or is conspiring against me in some way.

I have a good network of friends and family and love them to bits, but I've been feeling more distant recently from them, its almost like with a few exceptions I'm pushing them away.

Part of the reason I feel so pathetic is that I'm from a comfertable background with such a strong family and such great friends. I don't know why I feel like this but I can't help it and really feel like despairing every so often.

To be honest I've had thoughts of suicide, but after an acquaintance of mine killed himself last year it puts me completely off it, after I saw the effect it had on his family. I couldn't imagine bringing that kind of hurt and pain to my mother and father. I know I won't go to that level and I even feel guilty having flirted with the idea.

I'm not explaining this very well but I do feel completely in the gutters.

I really don't want to talk about this with a shrink, mainly because I couldn't afford it and I'm terrified of the stigma. My friends know I'm somewhat odd but I don't think I could handle the 'pity' thing that is associated with that. I don't want to take meds either.

Part of the problem is that I can't seem to describe it properly, even here I'm giving such a glossed down version of it because I'm not explaining myself well. I'm really considering sitting down with my mum sometime about it, but I don't know what to say. I really want to cry but feel so stonewalled inside, nothing seems to move me anymore.

There are times I see something beautiful and its like something awakens inside me and I feel better, even momentarily, almost like a religious experience.

To be honest I think I might have early stage schizophrenia (I don't hear voices but I do such odd things every so often and always feel paranoid) or depression, I don't know, I feel lost and I can't turn to anyone and would rather die than see a psychologist.

Again, I would really appreciate it if the mods would respect my privacy, not that I'm expecting otherwise but this would tie in with the whole paranoia thing!

I would really appreciate advice from anyone else who has ever felt like this, I really don't know what to do.

Zaph

Unregistered wrote: »

Note: I am a registered member here but would rather not reveal my identity. I'm sure the admins know who I am with their IP thingy but I'd prefer if they didn't say who I am.

Again, I would really appreciate it if the mods would respect my privacy, not that I'm expecting otherwise but this would tie in with the whole paranoia thing!

Just to put everyone's mind at ease here, the PI mods do not have access to tools to help us identify unregistered posters, nor would we use them if we had. Doing so would undermine the integrity of the forum and the trust placed in us by the Admins and posters. As regards those higher up the food chain, I know the Admins (and possibly SMods) could run an IP check, but my understanding is that it's a very complex operation and not worth the effort unless it's an extreme case (e.g. Boards being served with a court order). If you're posting in PI unregged you can rest assured that you will remain anonymous unless you choose otherwise.

Sorry to go off-topic there, but it's something that's worth reminding people of from time to time.

sunnyside

It sounds like depression (really common). I know you said you don't want to take medication but I think you should consider it. Visit your GP and discuss it with him or her. Nobody would have to know if you took medication or went to see a counsellor. You don't have to tell your friends everything.

Just because your circumstances are good doesn't automatically mean you will be happy so don't feel guilty.

pseudonym1

Thanks for that Zaph I was kinda freaked there. :eek:

OP Do you do drugs or drink excessively? I have been to the depths of paranioa and back.. I also took a copious amount of drugs for years and that with other factors is what induced mine

Silly excuses for not going to counselling don't wash. A problem is only a problem when you dont do anything about it. You need to address this head on. If you are a student or have a medical card you can get access to a professional that has been trained to help in these situations.

Perhaps confiding in a family member could be your bridge?

I know things are hard right now but if you take the steps in dealing with it - you may very well be a better stronger happier person then you thought possible by your mid 20's.

galwaydude

What is really bothering you OP? You need to talk to someone because its not good keeping your feelings all bottled up like this. This is a good start but what you really need is to sit down with your mam or a good friend and just spill. Even talking about it is half the battle. Once you find the root cause of your depression then you can get help either from a doctor or a shrink. Life is too short to keep everything bottled up. Open up to your friends and family. They will be an enormous help. I wish you all the best.

CelticTigerMkII

I wouldn’t be qualified in either an academic or life experience manner to dispense advice so this is more an observation from reading your post.

First-off, anyone who can articulate themselves as well as you have done in your post is a million miles from “unworthy”. There’s an abundance of skill and ability displayed in your writing alone.

In relation to your family and friends – it works both ways. As clichéd as it may sound, they love you to bits too. They love you for who you are – warts and all- and you love them back in equal measure - warts and all. It’s all too easy when you’re feeling low to withdraw from socialising with friends. However, may be now more than ever its time to consciously reach out to a trusted friend, and in poker parlance lay your cards on the table. Its odds on that your mates at different times have experienced similar emotions/difficulties/issues as you are dealing with.

I’d also go ahead and speak to your Mum. The older you get the more you realise how old your parents aren’t (if that makes any sense). In other words aside from a Wii, some designer labels, boards.ie (does that qualify as a goof laden internet joke!) and maybe a few foreign holidays - life today and the trials, tribulations that go with it are the same as they were for your folks in their 20s.

I know from personal experience of how for different reasons this doesn’t always ‘clearly’ seem to be the case, but never lose sight of how important YOU as person are to the people around you. I believe we are all different for a reason and we all have something different to offer, however subtle this may be. Your family and friends will always love and need you – vice versa.

I’d also go along with the advice of the previous two posters in recommending speaking to a professional aswell. Ups and downs are a part of life and I'm going thru something fairly similar myself.

Start talking! And good luck.

LegacyUser

pseudonym1 wrote: »

Thanks for that Zaph I was kinda freaked there. :eek:

OP Do you do drugs or drink excessively? I have been to the depths of paranioa and back.. I also took a copious amount of drugs for years and that with other factors is what induced mine

Silly excuses for not going to counselling don't wash. A problem is only a problem when you dont do anything about it. You need to address this head on. If you are a student or have a medical card you can get access to a professional that has been trained to help in these situations.

Perhaps confiding in a family member could be your bridge?

I know things are hard right now but if you take the steps in dealing with it - you may very well be a better stronger happier person then you thought possible by your mid 20's.

Thanks to all who've replied, means a lot.

To answer that post, I did a little weed when I was younger, not very much and probably less than the average person my age. I don't think that can be the cause of this because I would have needed to have done a lot more frankly than I have, and the last time I did any serious amount of weed (A festival weekend) I was already feeling like this.

In terms of drink I am a real binger. I don't drink day to day but maybe once a month I go out and get hammered. I know thats not good either but again, probably less than most my age.

I don't think the problem is with drink or drugs to be honest.

As for seeing a counsellor, maybe ye are right and that I should just do it. I don't know, the thought of it appearing in a bill and the rest of my family finding out - or my dad for that matter (My permanent adress is my original home but during the week I live in Dublin) I have no gf and no prospects for a gf frankly so maybe this is one less weight off my shoulders in this respect so maybe I should just take the leap. I'm going to talk to my ma about it sometime anyway.

Thanks again for all the advice, means a lot.

AARRRGH

There is no shame in seeing a counsellor. It is waaaay more common than you think. I'd say about half my friends have seen a counsellor and it really helped them.

I think most people go through life carrying a bit of pain, or struggling somewhat, but most people just ignore it or get on with things and never really find happiness.

The fact that you've come here and are able to talk about your problems does tell me that you're ready to do something about it. You may not think this is significant, but it really is, as most people do nothing about their suffering.

Get counselling, and if possible, try to do things which will improve the physical you as well. I can't overestimate the benefits of exercise, so if you can, join a gym. Also if you improve your diet you will feel much better. I've noticed when I go through phases of eating badly I don't feel too good about myself! If you can also do some things to improve your self esteem (nice clothes, nice haircut) that will benefit you too.

But definitely having a professional to guide you through your problems will be of a huge benefit, and based on what my friends have told me, you definitely won't regret it.

Cormb

Hi OP
Talking with someone about how you are feeling may be good and benefical.
Getting someone elses perspective on how you're feeling/thinking might help set your mind at ease.

A problem shared is a problem halved.

InReality

Depression can just occur , without a specific "incident". What your describing sounds like depression to me.
Its an illness like any other except it throws your brain chemistry out of wack , which (can ) result in feelings like you describe and other things like tiredness , pain in joints and a lot of other stuff.
Can be treated with drugs and CBT ( type of counselling ) among other things.
Talk to your GP , he/she will have see 100's of people with depression and normally are a great first step to sorting it out.
Also talk to your mum , and visit a depression group meeting ( aware , grow ).

If this sounds like a lot don't worry.
Depression also makes everyday living and decisions very difficult.
Say maybe 1 day you could see your GP - set a day this week.

& take care of yourself as best you can.

banshee_bones

AARRRGH wrote: »

There is no shame in seeing a counsellor. It is waaaay more common than you think. I'd say about half my friends have seen a counsellor and it really helped them

I really cannot stress this enough. Honestly. I went and if you were to meet any of my friends they would tell you how stubborn i can be when it comes to accepting or seeking help. No joke,it was a huge deal for me to go, i was of the school of thought that it was "weak" and had all sorts of stigmas attached to it.
The friend that pushed me to see the counsellor, well i can never thank her enough, honestly it did me the world of good. and plenty of my friends went too or have gone at some stage or another. There is great benefit from talking to someone completely impartial that isnt connected to you in any way.

AARRRGH

Yeah, I would have no problem seeing a counsellor if I felt I needed it now. Nothing wrong with becoming a better, happier person.

shoppergal

OP, I'm not sure from your posts if your working but if you're working for a large company can you check if they have an employee assistance programme in place. My company for example has a scheme with a company called first assist and all employees have a card with the phone number that they can call confidentially to discuss any range of topics with trained cousellors/advisors.
Might be worth looking into.

jdivision

Been there. To be honest I'd try to sort it out now rather than later. I wish I had sat and talked to somebody at the time and think you should do the same, even if it's just a mate who's considerate and you think might be willing to listen without being judgmental. They're rare but expressing it makes it easier.

LegacyUser

I used to feel like that until my mum said to me "look, if you had an infection, you'd go to a doctor". similarly if you have a mental health issue, counselling/psychologists can really help. therapy has definitely helped me out in my life. it gives you a lot more self-awareness and as they say, knowledge is power. if you do go to therapy, make sure you get a therapist you actually like. it is so important! i once went to this psychologist who i clashed with;despite her excellent qualifications. then i went to another therapist and got on much better with her because we had a better therapist-patient relationship. sounds silly but definitely something to consider!

standclear

OP, am fairly sure you dont have early onset of anything so serious ..an anxiety/mood disorder like depression perhaps, particularly if you feel 'joyless' and your sleep patterns have altered..there are two basic routes for you to get you back to your old self.
The GP route:a good starting point depending on your relationship him/her. They most probably will prescribe a low level anti-depressant medication(non addictive but may take a few weeks to kick in). Expect to stay on them for a few months, but have a superb sucess rate.
The counselling route:basically talking therapy. works for a lot of people that are feeling overwhelmed or troubled rather than appear to have a chemically based condition.
There are some low cost/free accredited counsellors, but do check their qualifications. If the problems are going on quite a while for you, a combination of both therapies may be most effective for you.Your local citizens advice centre-(esp the ones in larger towns) generally have information on local counsellors, and it is a only a confidential phone call away.
You are obviously an articulate young man, and confiding in your mam is a wise thing to do at this point.
Wishing you all the best.

CDfm

OP - you sound really low and should get yourself of to your GP kinda sharpish. There are a lot of medics posting on boards who moan that if only people would go to their GP they can get the help they need fairly readily.

I hope you dont mind me saying that getting in contact with friends as friends at a social level could be helpful. The monthly binges may also not help.

LegacyUser

I feel you mate. Coming from a wealthy enough backround, and life just seems too easy sometimes, you wish something dramatic would happen. An important note though, DON'T take medication, resist that unless all else fails, it can mess with your mind, and you could end up on them for life. They are unhealthy for the body.
I'm trying to paint exactly what your going thru, you find it hard to talk to people a lot because of your feelings of guilt, you say you love the people close to you, but I doubt many of them love you. The paranoia causes you to retreat on long walks, and being on your own. It;s like you feel that your different to others. You are definitely not happy, but you can turn things around, I think you want to take more risks in your life for happiness, but fear and worry stops you. If you can be yourself around people that is a success. And if they like you despite your oddness, that is also a success. You find it hard to make your points clear to others, find it hard to argue, and deep within yourself you know you are not being genuine, even though you really want to be genuine. This is also part of your guilt that you are not genuine enough.
If I can make a positive difference to anyones lives, that gives me great satisfaction.

LegacyUser

Hi OP. Jeez man, I really feel for you. And thanks for posting this, it struck a bit of a chord with me and well, though you don't seem to think you articulate yourself well, you certainly articulate very well the way I feel anyway. I could be wrong, but you seem eerily similar to me in a lot of ways, so hopefully I can offer you a bit of empathy at least, and I might be able to give you some info that could help with your therapy issue.

Basically here is the story.

I'm in my early twentys and male. For over a year now I've been feeling low all the time. I have constant feelings of guilt and feel really sorry for myself all the time. I haven't done anything to warrant feeling particularly guilty but I just can't help it.

I'm a 22 year old guy. Like you, brilliant friends and family. Great upbringing. I have the exact same guilt thing. It's such a crap feeling, isn't it? I find it worse than normal guilt because there's nothing to attach it to, if I at least knew what I was feeling guilty for it wouldn't be so maddening, then I'd know what I had to do to put things right. But this, it's just...bleh.

Hey, look at the good things about your great background for helping you through this. The love you have around you, and the support and help for your problems you'll have once you can find the right way to express yourself. No childhood resentments, so you won't end up being one of those guys who blames his mother or someone for all his problems, and ends thinking since its not his fault he can't do anything to help himself. It's crap to feel all this guilt, but think how much better it is to feel it ourselves then trying to push it onto close ones. We'll never have that option and temptation to offload some of it onto others when we're feeling weak.

Like you, I feel guilty most of the time whether I deserve to or not. It's not debilitating most of the time, and I still manage to enjoy life to a certain degree, but it's a huge problem, and it makes me a lot less outgoing than I'd like to be. I seem to go in patterns of making myself very busy working, socialising and studying for ages, before withdrawing for a while and starting introspective questioning that ends up giving a deep feeling that everything is empty and pointless. And I feel ashamed of myself for feeling this way when there are so many others who can get all the meaning they need through their work or their partner or whatever. I hate myself the way I hate snobs, because I figure "God. You must be some arrogant bastard to think life isn't good enough for you."

Added to this I start to feel, retrospectively, that everything I've done in life is shameful to a degree, because it's all been based on these false, lying principles of pretending I feel the value in things like others do. So nearly everything in my life gets reappraised in the context of being a pathetic way of hiding from my fears because I'm so scared of my own feelings of insignificance. And I feel that everyone must be able to see through my act, and must think I'm pathetic for pretending to live and be OK. So everything is a source of shame and cringe-worthiness (Though I'm a wee bit of a geek too, so a bit of cringe-worthiness comes with the territory anyway ), not just the truly embarrassing things I've done but also the times I've been a good friend, or had successes at stuff. And then it's so hard to return to life, cos everythings poisoned and I feel sick to my core going back, and even when I do force myself back into the swing of things there's still this mocking echo cheapening everything I do. Every time I withdraw into isolation I find myself doing it for longer and longer and recently I've started fantasising a bit about jacking in everything and disappearing into a hermitlike existence (books, DVDs, and a vegetable garden) and no human interaction. But at the same time I know I need friends and excitement, and I only really feel happy when I have people around me I love.

I've feelings of paranoia constantly when in public places, I either think someone is staring at me or is conspiring against me in some way.

This is the one bit I can't really relate to personally, though I can totally understand how a guilt complex could lead to paranoia developing. I study psychology but I'm still only at undergrad level so I'm no expert, but I do know that many root disorders, such as the guilt complex appears to be in our case, cause paranoia at some point in their development as a natural outgrowth. So if you can defeat the core guilt tendency, you could kill a few birds with one stone and beat the paranoia too.

Of course, you can also attack this thing from the top down, and start with attacking the paranoia itself. I know you're set against shrinks, but remember that paranoia has been shown one of the disorders that respond best to the therapeutic treatment. In many cases, paranoid feelings stem from a time in a person's life when they had good reason to be highly suspicious of their environment. So paranoia has good visibility, in that its source is usually quite clearly defined and traceable, and finding it can be usually extremely helpful to defeating it.
All paranoias are different of course, and this mightn't apply to yours. But if you have to have an anxious disorder, paranoia at least gives you decent odds of defeating it, and a few footholds for getting to grips with it. So don't despair, ok?

Having a wide variety of psychological issues is frightening and sometimes it's hard to know how to start to fight them (speaking from bitter experience here), but if you can just get a hold of one and solve its puzzle, it always leads you to the next one and gives you to clue to defeat that one too. Find somewhere to start. You mightn't necessarily need a shrink, but please consider it at least.

To be honest I've had thoughts of suicide, but after an acquaintance of mine killed himself last year it puts me completely off it, after I saw the effect it had on his family. I couldn't imagine bringing that kind of hurt and pain to my mother and father. I know I won't go to that level and I even feel guilty having flirted with the idea.

It's good that you think of your parents feelings when feeling suicidal, and also remember that the fact they care about you, and would be devastated without you, is a sign of your worth, so remember that at times of low self-esteem or guilt.

Don't feel guilty for flirting with the idea. Why do you think you feel that guilt? Is it that you think suicide, and any thoughts about it, are selfish? Well in my opinion, suicidal (and all self-destructive) tendencies are only selfish if you take them as a licence to act self-obsessed and without consideration to others, and you're obviously not falling into that trap, so don't feel ashamed.

From what you say, I'd say you might be more suicide ideator than suicidal (forgive me if that's presumptuous), and they're very different things.
Like take me, I get suicidal thoughts at times. I'd rather I didn't, but they're there, and so I have to make the best of them. So I use them as a crutch at times, though for the same reasons as you I'd never really consider the act itself. Having a vague suicide ideation and hazy thoughts on how I'd do it is not only an interesting thought experiment, but it gives me a comforting fatalistic, nothing-matters-so-why-worry? context to all my problems at times when they seem overwhelming, and I find it a perfect antitode to my over-worrying.
So it works for me, in a way. It could be that there's a way you could use it to help you too?

I'm not saying suicide ideation is healthy, not at all, but when it's there it's there and if you can't beat it, then using it is better than ignoring it IMO. Very occassionally it can be the only short-term solution that keeps me going when life gets tough. I was gonna screw up my leaving cert through stress until I decided I was going to kill myself afterwards anyway. Even though I knew full well that I wouldn't really, it still stopped me from worrying about screwing the exams up, and I was thinking about suicide so much during them I didn't have time to get nervous at all and they went great. Think I even wrote my English essay about a guy killing himself in the end.
Just writing that makes me feel so weird, and I do feel a bit guilty for using it as a crutch, but it just seems the best I can make of the situation.

I really don't want to talk about this with a shrink, mainly because I couldn't afford it and I'm terrified of the stigma. My friends know I'm somewhat odd but I don't think I could handle the 'pity' thing that is associated with that. I don't want to take meds either.

God, I feel the exact same way. I couldn't stand to be pitied, and the thought that I might be is unbearable. I'd do nearly anything to avoid being pitied, I'd rather be hated.

I do see a shrink though, and she's helped me enormously. Myself, I don't think shrinks are absolutely necessary for problems like this, they're more a guide and study aid for personal self-examinations, but when you're in a dead end sometimes you need someone outside the boilerroom of your own head to take what you're saying and point you in the right direction with it. Don't worry about the stigma, there's nothing at all shameful about admitting your problems and turning to face them. It sounds like self-esteem is a big issue for you, and don't you think that you'll always be prouder of yourself if you acknowledge your problems rather than repress them? I reckon those who tell you getting therapy is a sign of weakness are also the types who refuse to stop and ask for directions even after they've been driving around in circles for two hours.

Are you in college? You might be able to get free counselling through there. If not, there are many therapists who'll offer cheap rates if you're willing to see them at the low demand times of their schedule, and there are also some who make a point of taking some people who can't afford full whack on their schedule, just to be nice. If you do think of therapy, look to explore these avenues and you'll be surprised at how much some will put themselves out to help- many are rich enough to be able to afford to, and by the nature of the job you get some of the nicest people on earth in it.

Of course it's probably most important that you just have someone to talk too, professional or no. Apart from the help and relief of just unburdening yourself to someone. Feelings of shame can just run riot and mutate in your head if you don't weigh them against an outsider objective viewpoint once in a while to see how overblown they really are. Someone you can go at your own pace with.

As for your stance on meds: I'm with you to a large degree. They can be reached for too quickly and many use them to anaesithise problems in lieu of resolving them. But there is a place for them. I don't know what your specific objection to them is, but just in case its that common one of being worried about becoming a sedated zombie, know that there are many different types of anti-depressant these days that act off different principles- the market is not nearly as dominated by serotonin-uptakers (like Prozac) as it used to be. Those were the drugs that got most of the depersonalisation accusations thrown at them, as their aim of stabalisation could hinder ability to feel. But now there's drugs that aim at other neurotransmittors- some which aim to flatline stabalise moods, but also some work to increase ability to feel both happiness and sadness. Never before have patients been so able to dictate just exactly how they would like their medicine to help them, so if you did choose meds, you would still be in control, and with a bit of research, could pick the one you think would help most. When I went on meds I aimed at finding drugs that would make me feel more, and there's no doubt they've helped me, whereas I'd never even consider going on Prozac because I know it wouldn't work for me.

But there are other reasons to choose to not use meds which are quite valid. But again, think it through, get all the information you can before making the decision whether to use them or not.

Part of the problem is that I can't seem to describe it properly, even here I'm giving such a glossed down version of it because I'm not explaining myself well. I'm really considering sitting down with my mum sometime about it, but I don't know what to say. I really want to cry but feel so stonewalled inside, nothing seems to move me anymore.

There are times I see something beautiful and its like something awakens inside me and I feel better, even momentarily, almost like a religious experience.

This, more than any other bit, struck a real chord with me. I also get that feeling of something waking in me sometimes, usually at artworks, and I feel so alive when in front of something achingly beautiful. But that's a rare feeling, and I need every day things to be able to move me in some little way too, but they just don't. I feel so flat 90% of the time, and then so impossibly alive for the rest. There's no in between.

But I do believe that if you strive to surround yourself with a full life and do the things that you feel would stir your emotions if they weren't in hibernation, eventually they'll be coaxed back to life. So please don't give up on them.

And the bit about wanting to cry just makes my heart go out to you. Please accept a big hug at this point, or if hugs aren't your thing then a sympathetic manly clap on the back at the very least

To be honest I think I might have early stage schizophrenia (I don't hear voices but I do such odd things every so often and always feel paranoid) or depression, I don't know, I feel lost and I can't turn to anyone and would rather die than see a psychologist.

Rather die? C'mon man. You're intelligent, you have the introspective qualities to realise you have issues, and to recognise what they are. It's an insult to that intelligence to reject out of hand what could be a viable means of help. Like I say, maybe therapy's for you, or maybe it isn't, but at least weigh it up in your mind fairly.

Sorry to harp on about this, but I just don't get how it could be shameful to see somebody who devotes their life, voluntarily, to developing the skills that help problems like ours? Hell, psychology's even a science now, it's not all Oedipal complexes and anal fixations anymore, no shrink these days is going to make wild conjectures on your childhood or relationships based on what you tell them.

Therapists want to help, you wouldn't be an imposition in them or anything if that's what's worrying you. And there's nothing you can tell a therapist that will make them pity you or think you pathetic, Believe me, nearly everyone who wants to be a therapist in my course speaks of doing it because they have admiration for people who are willing to face their demons, and want to work with them.
(And yes, also because of the money, but the noble reason is there too!)
Besides, a lot of therapists gravitate towards that career because of their own history of mental problems, so they won't be judging.
Maybe it's an Irish thing, I don't know. But think of places like New York where having a therapist is the norm, and almost fashionable. You wouldn't be ashamed to do it if you lived there, so why here?

Anyhow, hope I manged to say something useful somewhere in the course of that oversized ramble. I'd be glad to chat or lend a sympathetic ear if you want to drop me a line- however much or little you can or want to say about your problems or anything else, I don't mind at all. If I've got this wrong and your problems are very different to mine, I'm happy to help regardless, but if we do have something in common, then we might really be able to help each other out a wee bit with this.