Dave Marsh vs Bono

Mr. Presentable

*Perhaps this is the wrong place, but it doesn't suit Music, Politics (maybe), or News/Media*

From: http://www.counterpunch.org/marsh03192009.html

In my opinion it doesn't do either one of them any favours, but at least it drags Bono out into the sunlight where he can properly be seen.



Sir Bono: the Knight Who Fled From His Own Debate
by Dave Marsh

As CounterPunch and Rock and Rap Confidential disclosed in September,
last May U2’s Bono confronted Irish journalist Gavin Martin and myself
in the lobby of Dublin’s Merion Hotel. He asked what I’d been working
on. I said “the premise that celebrity politics has been a pretty much
complete failure.” Bono replied that he wanted to debate the topic in
public. He reiterated the challenge the next evening. The witnesses
included U2’s manager Paul McGuinness and my wife, Barbara Carr, among
others.

I made sure that Sirius Satellite Radio, which was to broadcast the
debate, knew about Bono’s invitation. By mid-June, U2’s New York
office confirmed the plan, asking only that it be delayed until U2
finished recording its next album. I kept it public via RRC and my
Sirius show, Kick Out the Jams.

In November, U2 manager Paul McGuinness rang me. After some brief
personal palaver—I like Paul even though I know he’s alluded to me as
a “Trotskyist” behind my back—McGuinness sheepishly said “Bono has
asked me to ask you if he can withdraw” from the debate.

I said “Sure.” McGuinness expressed gratitude that I was taking it so
well.

“Of course,” I added, “this was a public challenge. Backing out’s not
gonna be private.” I did not ask why Bono ducked the debate. Maybe
he’d come to his senses, as his apologetics for world capitalism
disintegrated with the stock, housing and employment markets. Maybe he
was too busy preparing the banalities he’d blare on the new album.

In the wake of the New Depression generated by Bono’s tutors in world
finance, it’s hardly necessary to issue a point by point refutation of
his statements about how the world works,. Based on Bono’s response to
criticism of U2’s tax avoidance, he plans to carry to the grave the
ardently stupid globalization orthodoxy of Forbes, the Wall Street
cheerleading rag he co-owns. Can there be anyone else who’s ventured a
deep thought in the last several months who still believes that the
only path to change involves bending the knee to the powerful?

As for the lyrics, don’t jump to the wrong conclusion. It can’t be
denied that Larry Mullen, Adam Clayton and the Edge can still make
fascinating music. Bono’s yelped vocals are another matter, his hollow
lyrics--where every platitude yields to an obscurantist pretension and
back again--yet another. Unfortunately, even if he’d come up with a
lyric as great as “One,” Bono also carries into each project his off-
stage political pronouncements, and his fawning affiliations with war
criminals such as Tony Blair and George W. Bush.

I don’t know why Bono spit the bit on debating these issues in a
public forum with a well-informed antagonist. Maybe he decided that
he’d ****ed up and was about to lower himself by going head to head
with a journalist. Maybe he doesn’t want to deal on the spot with
descriptions of his repeated appearances at the conferences of the
leading capitalist nations where he’s yet to ask his first hard
question about anything but Africa; about his settling for promises
from world leaders that patently weren’t going to be kept, and never
doing more than mewing when they weren’t; about why it is that Zambian
economist Dambisa Moyo, by no means an anti-capitalist, observes that
she met him “at a party to raise money for Africans, and there were no
Africans in the room, except for me,” or why so many other Africans
have complained that he claims to speak for them but has never so much
as asked their permission. In regard to the last, I did receive more
courtesy than Andrew Mwenda, the Ugandan journalist Bono cursed for
raising such questions at an economics conference. (But then, I’m
white and Celtic-American.)

It certainly isn’t my fault that I have to say “maybe” about all of
this. Bono never got back to me, or had any of his handlers get back
to me, about the ground rules for our projected “debate”--his term,
not mine. I’d have settled for an honest interview although “debate”
would have been more fun, even though the result was inevitable. No
matter how many people sided with my being able to see through the
kind of thing William Burroughs once poetically dubbed “a thin tissue
of horse****” it wouldn’t be enough to outweigh Big Time Pop Star
status.

I don’t know. More to the point, you can’t know either.

U2 could be in a fair amount of trouble. The band is old by rock
standards, and on the cover of Rolling Stone Bono looked much older
than the rest because of a physical makeover that tries to deny it. No
Line’s first single flopped on the radio. The band’s decision to have
its song publishing company flee Ireland for a tax haven in the
Netherlands has been subject to protests in the streets of Dublin and
has no obvious justification, despite Bono’s fatuous counterclaim that
it is his critics who are the hypocrites because free-market values
were what created the “Celtic Tiger” of Dublin’s capitalist boom
economy. The Tiger’s death throes look to be particularly messy, in
part because of capital flight of just U2’s kind. The band’s attempt
to alter the Dublin skyline with its Clarence Hotel expansion is
another example of its ruinous distance from everyday Irish reality.

Bono’s self-promotion fares much better on this side of the Atlantic
than at home. For instance, he got away scot-free in the American
press after declaring during the Inauguration Concert, “What a thrill
for four Irish boys from the north side of Dublin to honor you sir,
Barack Obama, to be the next president of the United States.” But
Shane Hegarty wrote in The Irish Times that only one of the band now
lives on Dublin’s working class north side while Bono has lived more
of his life on the south side.

“During the band's performance of ‘In The Name of Love,’” wrote
Hegarty, “he described Martin Luther King's dream as ‘Not just an
American dream--also an Irish dream, a European dream, an African
dream, an Israeli dream . . .’ And then, following a long pause
reminiscent of a man who'd just realized he'd left the gas on, he
added, ‘. . . and also a Palestinian dream.’ This was his big shout
out to the Palestinians… You can't help but marvel at this latest
expression of Bono's Sesame Street view of the world. Hey Middle East,
we just have to have a dream to get along. Just ignore the sound of
those loud explosions and concentrate on Bono's voice.”

So listen, Bono, if you decide to suck it up and face me, I’m still
available. I can’t win a debate, we both know that, and why you’d want
to continue to look feeble and cowardly when you have virtually
nothing to lose… well, that’s another question I suppose you’ll never
be asked.

It doesn’t mean that those questions are going to go away. Maybe for
the tamed tigers of the American pop press, but not for me, or for
those people in the streets of Dublin calling you a tax cheat, or for
the Africans who feel insulted by your ignorance of their lives, or
for that matter, the fans who wonder why you insist on siding
continually, if slyly, with the powerful against the powerless.

MAN O’ WAR

In 2005, the annual Man of Peace award was given to Bob Geldof,
despite his promotion of the bloodthirsty Bush and Blair regimes. In
mid-December the Nobel Peace Prize laureates who give the award
gathered in Paris to bestow it on an even worse choice: Bono.

Bono is no man of peace--he has yet to speak out against any war. Bono
is part owner of Pandemic/Bioware, producers of Mercenaries 2, a video
game which simulates an invasion of Venezuela. Last year Bono met with
US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to discuss plans to set up a new
U.S. military command for Africa. Forbes, the magazine Bono co-owns,
constantly beats the drums for war (Bono says he was attracted to the
magazine because it has a “consistent philosophy”).

Like Sir Bob, Bono sings the praises of some of the most warlike
public figures. It starts with Dubya and Blair—Bono praised the UK
prime minister for “doing the things he believed in.” He clearly meant
to include massive British involvement in the war in Iraq. Bono also
has nothing but praise for arch-reactionaries such as Jesse Helms and
Billy Graham. In the video for Pat Boone’s video, “Thank You Billy
Graham,” Bono intones “I give thanks for the sanity of Billy Graham, a
singer of the human spirit.”

Interesting. In 1966, Graham followed LBJ to the podium at the
National Prayer Breakfast to give a ringing endorsement of the war in
Vietnam. “There are those,” Graham said, “who have tried to reduce
Christ to a genial and innocuous appeaser; but Jesus said ‘You are
wrong—I have come as a firesetter and sword-wielder. I am come to send
fire down on earth!”

Sing that human spirit, Billy—you’ve got Bono on harmonies. Indeed,
surrounded by America’s most hawkish politicians, Bono gave a fawning
keynote speech at the 2008 National Prayer Breakfast. In a recent
interview with the British music magazine Q, U2 drummer Larry Mullen
said he “cringes” when he sees Bono hanging out with George Bush and
Tony Blair, adding that those two world leaders should be tried as
“war criminals.”

It might seem strange that a group of Nobel Peace Prize winners would
anoint Bono as a man of peace. But maybe not. Past Peace Prize winners
include Henry Kissinger, puppetmaster of the violent overthrow of
Chile’s Salvador Allende and architect of the bombing of Cambodia, and
Bono’s buddy Al Gore, who backed both Gulf wars after voting for the
first-strike MX missile.

One of the people who might have injected some new thinking into the
Man of Peace festivities in Paris is Tookie Williams. A co-founder of
the Crips gang in LA who became a spokesman against the gang life and
an author of children’s books while on Death Row, Williams was
nominated five times for the Nobel Peace Prize (and once for the Nobel
Prize in literature). Of course, Williams could not attend because he
died of a lethal injection at San Quentin on December 13, 2005 after
California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger refused worldwide pleas for
clemency.

Yet on October 23, there was Bono, the “man of peace,” gushing with
praise for Arnold as he gave yet another keynote, this time at the
California Women’s Conference in Long Beach. Other speakers included
the Governator, his wife Maria Shriver, and Madeline Albright.
Albright, Bill Clinton’s Secretary of State, once said on national
television when asked how she could justify the deaths of 500,000
Iraqi children as a result of Clinton/Gore sanctions: “We think the
price is worth it.”

Bono made no mention of the dramatic increase in California poverty
caused by Schwarzenegger’s pro-corporate policies. Not a word about
the two million children in the state who go hungry or about the
immigrants hunted in the streets as if they were animals escaped from
a zoo. The main theme of Bono’s rambling talk was poverty in Africa
and Africa only, although he did make brief mention of how as an
aspiring musician he was inspired by the Clash (ironic since they were
artists who made their opposition to war very explicit).

Despite the inspiration that many people take from the anthems Bono
has written, there is not one shred of evidence that he disagrees on
any issue—war, tax shelters, immigration—with the power brokers he
wants us to believe are the last best hope of mankind.

FlutterinBantam

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

PK2008

tl;dr

Terry

In short: Journalist doesn't get an interview.

Milky Moo

I am way too lazy to read all of that cliffnotes please

Fratton Fred

I like Bono.

Basq

Sum it up for me in less than 5 words please..

PogMoThoin

TLDR

trout

basquille wrote: »

Sum it up for me in less than 5 words please..

bono; sings well, evasive debater.

Rhyme

Journalist disappointed with evasive Bono.

...there, five words.

tony1kenobi

Oooooooooooooooooooohh...Bono is gonna be pissed when he reads that.

AlmightyCushion

Terry wrote: »

In short: Journalist doesn't get an interview.

basquille wrote: »

Sum it up for me in less than 5 words please..

Terry provides.

Captain-America

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring.

trout

warlike singer spurns political debate

bronte

Bono rules imo

Phototoxin

i cannot stand him

Basq

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Terry provides.

Pfft.... I said less than 5 words! :rolleyes: :pac:

Now summarise it as a sonnet with a Petrarchan rhyming scheme..

TIA!

Dennis the Stone

Great article

Tech3

Tago Mago wrote: »

Great article

how did you manage to read all that, i fell asleep half walf down

Dennis the Stone

tech2 wrote: »

how did you manage to read all that, i fell asleep half walf down

I lead a very boring life :eek:

Boosh

basquille wrote: »

Sum it up for me in less than 5 words please..

Purple Monkey Dishwasher

raah!

While bono may be a douche, whoever wrote that disgustingly arrogant and self congratulatory article can't be much better than him.

humbert

raah! wrote: »

While bono may be a douche, whoever wrote that disgustingly arrogant and self congratulatory article can't be much better than him.

That about sums it up for me too.

TheLoc

Couldn't be bothered reading but I wanted to take this oportnity to say that Bono is right spanner. I can't stand the look of him. he's gone pure fake and full of sh!te.

tech77

trout wrote: »

warlike singer spurns political debate

Too Guardian.
For Sun readers:
Gobby rocker dodges journo spat.

Professey Chin

Whinge whinge whinge.
If he'd gotten then interview he woulda been full of praises
Debate me arse

Dragan

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Whinge whinge whinge.
If he'd gotten then interview he woulda been full of praises
Debate me arse

Unlikely for Marsh.

As for the article, nothing in there that hasn't been said before and the simple fact is it's all true.

Bono = hypocrytical tool.

Snowie

bono's a tw@

Aodan83

Bono is a tit.
But this journo lad sounds a lot like a friend of mine, who also doesnt like bono very much. The similarities are astounding. I think I may have found his future calling, btching about bono!

Professey Chin

Degsy wrote: »

The man is a hypocrite and a money-grabbing bastard.
<snip>.everybody else is facing increased taxes..he doesnt pay any.

True but Id be doin the exact same thing. And I guarantee you would too.
He isn't a public servant, he doesn't owe the country money and he doesnt exactly spend the countries money on himself and on his own "expenses".If I had the money to avoid it id be making sure a government who arsed up a lot wouldnt be taking more off me to arse up more. Sure he spews some shite but I dont hear him talking about everyone doing their patriotic duty and giving more taxes.

That went off a little but I think my basic point is still there somewhere


EDIT: Actually just outta curiosity, does anyone have any idea what % of bonos money would have actually come from ireland?

AnonoBoy

So some whiny online journalist wanted his moment in the sun so he could go around telling everybody about the time that he had a debate with Bono. Now it's not happening and he's all huffy cause he wanted a chance to be famous too.

Big deal.

As for the traitor to the country thing? I can think of a lot more people who are much more deserving of that title.

Terry

Just a little FYI: The current tour is promoted by the unmentionables.

Degsy

Not one minute goes by without people being told how much the country is in a bad way,how much we're going to have to suffer tax increases,pay cuts and job losses to save the country.
So what happens?
A group of self-confessed tax-dogers led by a hypocrite with a jesus complex anounces another rip-off gig(For which they'll be paying not a penny in tax) and the masses lap it up like morons.
Paying through the nose to listen to a twat preach about africa when he couldnt give less of **** about the people that made him what he is.

S.I.R

jasus, theirs more moaning in that article then their is in a pronz movie... :rolleyes:

AnonoBoy

Degsy wrote: »

A group of self-confessed legal tax-dogers led by a hypocrite.

I'm more worried about all the illegal tax evasion and theft that has gone on over the past few decades.

I'm not a fan of Bono but there's far more important and relevant things to get annoyed about. But it is fun to watch you get all riled up so keep it up!

Terry

Degsy wrote: »

Not one minute goes by without people being told how much the country is in a bad way,how much we're going to have to suffer tax increases,pay cuts and job losses to save the country.
So what happens?
A group of self-confessed tax-dogers led by a hypocrite with a jesus complex anounces another rip-off gig(For which they'll be paying not a penny in tax) and the masses lap it up like morons.
Paying through the nose to listen to a twat preach about africa when he couldnt give less of **** about the people that made him what he is.

Here you go: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59534088#post59534088

Professey Chin

S.I.R wrote: »

jasus, theirs more moaning in that article then their is in a pronz movie... :rolleyes:

We must watch different pronz. Mines all screams, gagging and choking :pac:

Degsy

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

We must watch different pronz. Mines all screams, gagging and choking :pac:

I like the ones with midgets in them.
Mouthy little tax-evading midgets who pretend to be from ballymun.

Dragan

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So some whiny online journalist wanted his moment in the sun so he could go around telling everybody about the time that he had a debate with Bono. Now it's not happening and he's all huffy cause he wanted a chance to be famous too.

Eh....Dave Marsh is one of the worlds most prominant music journos. Was one of the men behind "Creem", wrote for Rolling Stone and has a large say in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Hardly looking for his moment in the sun, the guys pretty much got sunburn by now.

AnonoBoy

Dragan wrote: »

Eh....Dave Marsh is one of the worlds most prominant music journos. Was one of the men behind "Creem", wrote for Rolling Stone and has a large say in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Hardly looking for his moment in the sun, the guys pretty much got sunburn by now.

See this is what happens when the OP posts a huge long post and I don't bother to read it. Boy oh boy is my face red!

Dragan

AnonoBoy wrote: »

See this is what happens when the OP posts a huge long post and I don't bother to read it. Boy oh boy is my face red!

It's all good man. I was very surprised by your post to be honest...normally you know exactly what you are talking about!

AnonoBoy

Dragan wrote: »

It's all good man. I was very surprised by your post to be honest...normally you know exactly what you are talking about!

Yeah..... I sure do.

*looks around suspiciously*

Is this a trap?