Is it possible to "auto trigger" snare replacement samples in Pro Tools LE?

ZV Yoda

Hi folks,

I’m a home hobbyist with about 12 month’s experience using Pro Tools LE. Amongst other things, I record acoustic drums in my home studio. I’m happy with my bass drum & overhead cymbal sound, but I'm struggling to get a "snappy" snare sound. I'm still working on mic placement/tuning/room acoustics & my intention is to keep at it until I get the sound I want.

In the meantime, I’ve had a listen to some of these samples posted by Trackmix here & would like to experiment with replacing my existing snare on some recordings to see how it improves things (and to see how a “professionally” recorded snare sounds next to my own efforts). I’ve read/heard lots of discussion about drum replacement techniques, but don’t know how to go about actually doing it in PT (other than manually replacing individual hits).

Would I need a specific program (like Drumagog) or is it possible to use PT to do this? Ideally, I’d like to be able to trigger a selection of snare samples against the existing hits (while maintaining the transients/volume of the original track). Drumagog clearly does all this, but I wanted to see if there was a workaround in PT.

You Tube/Google seem to have videos for other DAWs, but I could see one for PT?

I’m thinking I’d need to create a duplicate snare track, then gate it so that I cut out the hit hats & retain only the original snare hits/transients. Then I need to figure some way of getting those transients to trigger the new samples? Also, how do I change the 2 min wav files (that Trackmix linked to) into discrete samples?

Sorry if these seem very basic questions, but like I say, I’m still new to home recording & haven’t done any sample/replacement stuff at all so far. I think midi can be used here somehow, but I've only a basic understanding of midi (i.e. I use it to play virtual instruments via a midi keyboard)

Thanks

PaulBrewer

Isn't there 'Sound Replacer' in PT?

woodsdenis

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Hi folks,

I’m a home hobbyist with about 12 month’s experience using Pro Tools LE. Amongst other things, I record acoustic drums in my home studio. I’m happy with my bass drum & overhead cymbal sound, but I'm struggling to get a "snappy" snare sound. I'm still working on mic placement/tuning/room acoustics & my intention is to keep at it until I get the sound I want.

In the meantime, I’ve had a listen to some of these samples posted by Trackmix here & would like to experiment with replacing my existing snare on some recordings to see how it improves things (and to see how a “professionally” recorded snare sounds next to my own efforts). I’ve read/heard lots of discussion about drum replacement techniques, but don’t know how to go about actually doing it in PT (other than manually replacing individual hits).

Would I need a specific program (like Drumagog) or is it possible to use PT to do this? Ideally, I’d like to be able to trigger a selection of snare samples against the existing hits (while maintaining the transients/volume of the original track). Drumagog clearly does all this, but I wanted to see if there was a workaround in PT.

You Tube/Google seem to have videos for other DAWs, but I could see one for PT?

I’m thinking I’d need to create a duplicate snare track, then gate it so that I cut out the hit hats & retain only the original snare hits/transients. Then I need to figure some way of getting those transients to trigger the new samples? Also, how do I change the 2 min wav files (that Trackmix linked to) into discrete samples?

Sorry if these seem very basic questions, but like I say, I’m still new to home recording & haven’t done any sample/replacement stuff at all so far. I think midi can be used here somehow, but I've only a basic understanding of midi (i.e. I use it to play virtual instruments via a midi keyboard)

Thanks

http://www.masseyplugins.com/index_v2.html?page=home

Go here. What you need is Massey DTM. It isn't advertised on the site.
You need to buy one of the plugs, which are brilliant anyway and you get it free. Double check this though.

Soundreplacer and drumagog will do the same thing but much more expensive.

You could do it the manual way by

Turn on keyboard focus

1 copying your sample to the clipboard
2 create new audio track above snare track.
3. Use tab to transient function to tab to snare hits
4. Use p or ; keys to move up or down tracks and
5. Use v key to paste snare sample to new audio track.

There are many permutations to this using Beat detective and also grouping
tracks to make it quicker but this is the quickest way to explain it (I hope)to a new user

Denis

trackmixstudio

aptrigga is what I use.
It is vst but will work with vst-rtas wrapper (I think).
It has filters and mix control so you don't need a separate track. You can also select how closely it follows transient attack.
I use DW pro triggers on the shells and record the signal to an audio track then use aptrigga 100% wet. This gives much better tracking on fast snare rolls and blast beats.
http://www.apulsoft.ch/aptrigga/index.php

Those samples I linked to are fuppin' amazing.
The Chadd Smith snare is getting used on nearly everything I do. I have a 6" steel Tama Metalworks snare and the sample reinforces it brilliantly without sounding like a triggered sample.
Just open the multi sample file in any audio editor such as the free Audacity.
Delete everything except the first snare then save as snare one, reopen the multi file then do same with snare 2 etc.... Aptigga will let you randomize which sample is fired on each hit or set up crossfaded velocity layers. You can also select "next sample" in the folder to quickly audition through your samples on the fly with the track playing.

PMI

Sound replacer in PT or Drumagog or toontracks drum replacer....

Drumagog is an auto trigger just assign it to that channed and choose your snare and off ya go....

ZV Yoda

Cheers for all the replies...

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Isn't there 'Sound Replacer' in PT?

Unless I'm missing something, Sound Replacer is $395 to download from Digi website? Also, it seems you can only use a max of 3 samples, which sort of defeats the purpose?

woodsdenis wrote: »

http://www.masseyplugins.com/index_v2.html?page=home

Go here. What you need is Massey DTM. It isn't advertised on the site.
You need to buy one of the plugs, which are brilliant anyway and you get it free. Double check this though.

Denis

Hmm… that looks just the job - I'll demo the Tape Sat plug in (which Massey says is good for beefing up drum sounds). If that sounds OK, I could buy that for $69 & then he supplies DTM free. Sounds like a good deal to me. I've only heard good reports about his plug-ins.

trackmixstudio wrote: »

aptrigga is what I use.
It is vst but will work with vst-rtas wrapper (I think).
It has filters and mix control so you don't need a separate track. You can also select how closely it follows transient attack.

Cheers Michael… maybe I’ll get to see Aptrigga in action at the session this week-end

PMI wrote: »

Sound replacer in PT or Drumagog or toontracks drum replacer....

Drumagog is an auto trigger just assign it to that channed and choose your snare and off ya go....

Looks like Drumagog/Toontracks retail for c. €200, so it’s a toss-up between Aptrigga (€40) or if the Massey demo works out, then I’d get a Massey tape sat plug in plug & DTM for about €50.

ZV Yoda

I bought Massey's DTM plug-in (actually I bought the Tape Sat plug-in which is very nice) and got DTM free. DTM seems to be pretty accurate at creating midi data in synch with the original drum transients. So far so good...

This is where I get stumped... how do I then get those midi notes to actually trigger samples in pro Tools 8? (e.g. I want the midi to randomly fire say 2 or 3 slightly different kick samples).

Also, how do I create samples from my own kit (say individual snare hits) that can be used for augmentation. My logic being that if I can track some “good” hits with no kit bleed etc) then I should be able to slot these samples under the kit after I’ve tracked a live take on the full kit.

If using my own samples don't work out, what would you recommend?... I have the usual Digi Pro Tools stuff (Structure, Xpand2!, Boom, BFD Lite)… I also have Miroslav Philharmonic & Sample Tank 2.5)

Thanks!

woodsdenis

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I bought Massey's DTM plug-in (actually I bought the Tape Sat plug-in which is very nice) and got DTM free. DTM seems to be pretty accurate at creating midi data in synch with the original drum transients. So far so good...

This is where I get stumped... how do I then get those midi notes to actually trigger samples in pro Tools 8? (e.g. I want the midi to randomly fire say 2 or 3 slightly different kick samples).

Also, how do I create samples from my own kit (say individual snare hits) that can be used for augmentation. My logic being that if I can track some “good” hits with no kit bleed etc) then I should be able to slot these samples under the kit after I’ve tracked a live take on the full kit.

If using my own samples don't work out, what would you recommend?... I have the usual Digi Pro Tools stuff (Structure, Xpand2!, Boom, BFD Lite)… I also have Miroslav Philharmonic & Sample Tank 2.5)

Thanks!

1. All the the Massey stuff is brilliant and relatively cheap.

2. Create Instrument track. Drag and Drop midi track from Massey DTM to the start of the instrument track Once you have your Instrument track you can use any VI to great a sound. Insert RTAS Instrument on instrument track and away you go. Use Real Time Properties/Transpose to
transpose Massey Midi Track to desired sound on Structure. Change velocity on Midi Track to trigger velocity layered samples in Structure

3. Structure is probably the easiest, as you already have it. The great thing
about it is, it is totally integrated into Protools. You can drag and drop regions into Structure seamlessly.

4. http://airvirtualinstruments.blogspot.com/

Go here and look at all the Structure tutorials to get an idea of how it works.
Also dowload loads of free sounds

Denis

ZV Yoda

woodsdenis wrote: »

2. Real Time Properties/Transpose to
transpose Massey Midi Track to desired sound on Structure. Change velocity on Midi Track to trigger velocity layered samples in Structure

Denis

That's the part I missed... transposing the midi track so it triggers the correct sound.

Thanks for that - will try that this evening

henessjon

have you got strike?

can that be used a as a replacer?

woodsdenis

henessjon wrote: »

have you got strike?

can that be used a as a replacer?

You still need DTM, but yes Strike can be used as a sound source aswell and in fact is one of the better ones because you get different mike positions/room ambience etc.

I am presuming Yoda doesn't have it . If he does, use this using the same technique

Denis

ZV Yoda

Hi folks.... no, I don't have Strike. I'd def consider getting something like Strike if I can't get the results I want from using my own samples.

ZV Yoda

I still haven't managed to get this working. Have also been asking the lads over on the Digi User Conference too, but no joy so far. I know I'm missing something simple here & it's driving me mad.

I've done everything listed above. If I switch to another patch (e.g. piano) it works fine. Even though I transposed the Massey notes to the correct notes, I can't get the Massey midi file to trigger sounds on the Structure. I can "see" the midi notes "playing" at the top of the channel on the mix window, but no sounds. If I hit the relevant note on my Axiom keyboard, hey presto - meaty drum sample.

Then I tried the Xpand!2 "session drums" patch. On the session drums patch, there seem to be 4 different patches in one (kick, snare, percussion..). The 4th patch (D – Percussion) triggers, but it’s patch A that I want (kick)

I’m really confused by the wonderful world of midi/patches, so any help appreciated. I’ve been looking all over at tutorials AIR blog/vids, DUC, SOS etc, but haven’t seen anything to help me with the specifics here.

By the way, to the various folks who pointed me to Massey's plug-ins... thery're super. Anybody running PT who hasn't used them should give them a lash.

woodsdenis

Yoda
I have pm'd you. I am at my machine and will take you through this on the phone .It is something very simple you are not doing

ZV Yoda

Cheers for that - much appreciated!

I'm in work at the minute, but will be home in 30 mins... any chance I can give you a call at that stage? Would better for me to be sitting in front of my machine too

woodsdenis

no problem

fitz

woodsdenis wrote: »

Yoda
I have pm'd you. I am at my machine and will take you through this on the phone .It is something very simple you are not doing

It's stuff like this that highlights how good this forum is at times.
People helping out without agenda...love it.

Fair play Denis.

ZV Yoda

Lads & lassies, just wanted to thank Denis for offering to help & taking my call today. Had me up & running in 15 mins.... and a real gent too!

Thanks a million!

henessjon

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Lads & lassies, just wanted to thank Denis for offering to help & taking my call today. Had me up & running in 15 mins.... and a real gent too!

Thanks a million!

yeah cool thats how a community should work

PMI

top bloke its good to have a board where people really want to share info and knowledge.... good stuff..