Where do I fit in?

TheTrooper

So I'm a 20 year old guy, gay and not out.

I am straight acting (I know people hate that term, but I don't know how else to say it) and not a single person knows I'm gay.

I dislike your stereotypical gay man (I know that will offend some of you, but I just simply can't stand flamboyant, girly types)

I don't fall into any of the gay stereotypes.

I don't like the gay scene. I would never go to a gay bar or club, basically because I like ordinary pubs and clubs!

I don't find 90% of men in any way attractive. Show me a picture of Brad Pitt or many of your so called "hot" celebrities naked and I wouldn't so much as take a second look.

I find the male "areas" not very attractive. I know it sounds weird, but for me I'd much prefer a guy in a pair of boxers as opposed to a naked guy!

I wouldn't want a relationship with a guy because, well, it wouldn't sit well with me.

I mean it seems to me like I'm not cut out for this gay life, as if I'm a straight guy who's attracted to the odd guy! I can't meet guys on a night out because I don't like the gay scene, and if I did meet a gay guy, he'd most likely be the type I don't like a) because of the fact I find most guys unattractive and b) because most guys that are out are the flamboyant types! (that I know of).


So, my question is, where do I fit in?

rainbow kirby

You are who you are. Not every gay person is the stereotypical camp type. There are plenty of "straight-acting" (I loathe that term...) guys out there, but they are a bit harder to find than the scene queens.

I wouldn't want a relationship with a guy because, well, it wouldn't sit well with me.

How so? Are you worried about what others will think, or is it something deeper within? Or are you worried that a relationship would mean you would have to start the coming out process?

I don't find 90% of men in any way attractive. Show me a picture of Brad Pitt or many of your so called "hot" celebrities naked and I wouldn't so much as take a second look.

Then celebrities clearly aren't your type. It sounds like you need to work out what your "type" is - what you are attracted to.

I find the male "areas" not very attractive. I know it sounds weird, but for me I'd much prefer a guy in a pair of boxers as opposed to a naked guy!

Function over form :pac:

needhelpguy

Welcome to the world of being gay and straight acting. Join the queue. There are a few thousand others.

You've described 90% of me.

You called yourself gay - so what is it exactly that makes you say you are gay?

L1011

TheTrooper wrote: »

I find the male "areas" not very attractive. I know it sounds weird, but for me I'd much prefer a guy in a pair of boxers as opposed to a naked guy!

Ah here, have you SEEN a womens, eh, 'areas'? The other option is far better than those... :eek:

rainbow kirby

MYOB wrote: »

Ah here, have you SEEN a womens, eh, 'areas'? The other option is far better than those... :eek:

Mrs Doyle (whilst Ted is trying to eat a sausage) wrote:

Oh it's a filthy, dirty business, sex. Can you imagine, Father. Your husband standing over you with his lad in his hand, wanting you to degrade yourself. I want you to get a good clear picture!

:pac:

azezil

You're 20, I wouldn't worry about it.
At your age I thought I wasn't attracted to anyone, male or female. I wouldn't stress over it dude

Marshy

TheTrooper wrote: »

I wouldn't want a relationship with a guy because, well, it wouldn't sit well with me.

Ok so you don't wanna go out with a guy, fair enough. There are many heteros I know who are the same. My question would be what do you want?

Boston

In simple terms, you don't. I've been a 'straight acting' Bi guy for a few years now and to be honest you never really start to 'fit' unless you change or stop caring.

oisindoyle

TheTrooper wrote: »

So I'm a 20 year old guy, gay and not out.

I am straight acting (I know people hate that term, but I don't know how else to say it) and not a single person knows I'm gay.

I dislike your stereotypical gay man (I know that will offend some of you, but I just simply can't stand flamboyant, girly types)

I don't fall into any of the gay stereotypes.

I don't like the gay scene. I would never go to a gay bar or club, basically because I like ordinary pubs and clubs!

I don't find 90% of men in any way attractive. Show me a picture of Brad Pitt or many of your so called "hot" celebrities naked and I wouldn't so much as take a second look.

I find the male "areas" not very attractive. I know it sounds weird, but for me I'd much prefer a guy in a pair of boxers as opposed to a naked guy!

I wouldn't want a relationship with a guy because, well, it wouldn't sit well with me.

I mean it seems to me like I'm not cut out for this gay life, as if I'm a straight guy who's attracted to the odd guy! I can't meet guys on a night out because I don't like the gay scene, and if I did meet a gay guy, he'd most likely be the type I don't like a) because of the fact I find most guys unattractive and b) because most guys that are out are the flamboyant types! (that I know of).


So, my question is, where do I fit in?

But who are you ? What do you want? How have you come to the idea that you are gay ?
I would suggest that you are still coming to terms with being gay and the "im not one of those " is a type of defence mechanism which many go through .If you want to PM me please feel free

TheTrooper

You ask, why do I think I'm gay. Well basically because I don't find women attractive!

Although that leaves me with the 10% of guys that I do find attractive, and of them lets say 10% are gay, and of that 10%, 100% are in the closet! So that ends up as, wait, let me work this out.... a 0% chance of finding a guy!

I say that because in my experience, any guy that I know to be gay, i.e. that is out, is your stereotypical camp guy. "Straight acting" guys do not come out of the closet. And if they do come out, they're being very quiet about it!

I guess what I'm looking for, and I know this will sound very shallow but, it's just to be with a guy. I have never been with a woman, even kissing, never mind a guy!

I don't think I'm the sort of guy for relationships. Thinking about it now, even if I was straight, I couldn't imagine myself being with the one person for any length of time!

The real problem I guess is that I have no one to relate to. I don't know any "straight acting" guys (If you guys hate that term, can you suggest any other way of putting it?) so I can't really talk to anyone that knows what I'm going through. Sure I've got the internet, but it's not the same as physically talking to someone about it.

I'm sure someone is going to recommend a LGBT soceity or something, but thats also a no-go for me. If I was seen at one of those meetings by any one I know, then I'd be outed, and thats not something I want right now. Plus, the idea of sitting around drinking cups of tea with a bunch of gay guys discussing our feelings seems, well, gay!

Thats another thing (I'm rambling now). I always say that kind of thing. I say "Thats gay" or "What a fag" etc. I don't know why, seeing as I'm gay myself. And if other people say it to me or anyone else, I have no problem with it. Yet I always read and hear about gay guys being so offended by it. I dunno. Just thought I'd mention it!

Also, the idea of being with a guy seems wrong to me. It's like having two pieces of a jigsaw that don't fit and you say, feck it, I'll make it fit! Crazy analagy, I know, but I hope you get my meaning. I'm also predicting more "coming terms with your sexuality". I'm sure most of you guys are fine with your sexuality, and I've no problem with that, it's just this is what I feel. It's not because of the way I was brought up, religion or even society, it's just how it is.

I hope you can make sense of whatever points I was trying to get across here!

Reflector

When you are ready you'll start to meet guys with similar interests and attitudes but you need to be confident and comfortable in yourself first. A good way to sort out your head is talking and you can do plenty of that online anonymously. Try Gaire.com.

needhelpguy wrote: »

Welcome to the world of being gay and straight acting. Join the queue. There are a few thousand others.

You've described 90% of me.

You called yourself gay - so what is it exactly that makes you say you are gay?

here here on this, another straight acting guy here. people actually look visibly shocked when they find out.

I guess it's hard to see the straight acting gay guys around because they dont seem to stick out. But rest assured we are out there and we are watching you!

azezil

TheTrooper wrote: »

I guess what I'm looking for, and I know this will sound very shallow but, it's just to be with a guy. I have never been with a woman, even kissing, never mind a guy!

Nor did I, till I was near 23.

I don't think I'm the sort of guy for relationships. Thinking about it now, even if I was straight, I couldn't imagine myself being with the one person for any length of time!

I thought the same before I'd kissed anyone too.

The real problem I guess is that I have no one to relate to. I don't know any "straight acting" guys (If you guys hate that term, can you suggest any other way of putting it?) so I can't really talk to anyone that knows what I'm going through. Sure I've got the internet, but it's not the same as physically talking to someone about it.

I went through exactlythe same thing. There now, you're not alone.

I'm sure someone is going to recommend a LGBT soceity or something, but thats also a no-go for me. If I was seen at one of those meetings by any one I know, then I'd be outed, and thats not something I want right now. Plus, the idea of sitting around drinking cups of tea with a bunch of gay guys discussing our feelings seems, well, gay!

I could never have done that a few years ago either. I have always been quite reserved with my feelings, very rarely show them or discuss them with anyone.

Thats another thing (I'm rambling now). I always say that kind of thing. I say "Thats gay" or "What a fag" etc. I don't know why, seeing as I'm gay myself. And if other people say it to me or anyone else, I have no problem with it. Yet I always read and hear about gay guys being so offended by it. I dunno. Just thought I'd mention it!

I'm out to most people and I still call people 'fag' in the derogatory sense too. Some people do get worked up about it, but not all. I personally couldn't give a rats ass if someone calls something gay in my presence.

Also, the idea of being with a guy seems wrong to me. It's like having two pieces of a jigsaw that don't fit and you say, feck it, I'll make it fit! Crazy analagy, I know, but I hope you get my meaning. I'm also predicting more "coming terms with your sexuality". I'm sure most of you guys are fine with your sexuality, and I've no problem with that, it's just this is what I feel. It's not because of the way I was brought up, religion or even society, it's just how it is.

Of course, no one just flicks a switch and is instantly 'ok' with everything. I certainly wasn't. For years I had to get blind drunk to even kiss a guy!!

I hope you can make sense of whatever points I was trying to get across here!

Yup, you're not as alone or unique as you might think

I do recommend talking to someone about it, I know it helped me a great deal when I did.

Arcadian

TheTrooper wrote: »

I say that because in my experience, any guy that I know to be gay, i.e. that is out, is your stereotypical camp guy. "Straight acting" guys do not come out of the closet. And if they do come out, they're being very quiet about it!

Maybe you've only ever stumbled upon a hairdressers night out?

I would be considered ''straight acting'', as would my partner and the majority of our friends. We'd all be out to anyone who knows us, short of stopping strangers on the street or wearing a sign round my neck there isn't a lot I can do to avoid being accused of ''being very quiet about it!"

anotherlostie

From reading this, I think you have a serious case of internalised homophobia, i.e. you're not happy with the idea of being gay at all. Lots of us had/ have it, and you just have to deal with it. I think you have a very stereotypical view of a gay man, and need to challenge that. Joining belongto (if you're in Dublin) would be one way to meet young gay people. Gaire or Queerid are sites where you can participate in forums, and then hopefully go on from there to meet people from the site. It's how I met most of my circle of gay friends. I would suggest queerid has a younger base, and might be better for you.

And you're 20, so (sadly for us older folk), not finding 45yr old Brad Pitt attractive is not that much of a shocker!

Aoifums

TheTrooper wrote: »

I'm sure someone is going to recommend a LGBT soceity or something, but thats also a no-go for me. If I was seen at one of those meetings by any one I know, then I'd be outed, and thats not something I want right now. Plus, the idea of sitting around drinking cups of tea with a bunch of gay guys discussing our feelings seems, well, gay!

I can totally relate to that. The first time I ever went to an LGBT club (BelongTo which is awsome), I honestly thought it was going to be full of wimpy, effeminate guys and manly girls. It was almost the exact opposite. Some of the guys were fairly stereotypically gay, but not too many.
I think everyone has the fear of being outed. I think it's something you have to grin and bear with. Or wait until you feel a bit more secure.
I know the internet isn't as good as actually talking to someone, but it does help make things better. There are people in the same or similar situations as you. I think knowing that can make you feel better.

L1011

You'd be surprised just how many gay lads don't appear gay (at least until the pints get flowing) - it'd probably be a majority of people in your age group. And I agree with lostie about Pitt - he's twice my age and as a result he cannot be an object of desire

If you do want to go for the not out, non scene, minimal contact etc way of things there is always Gaydar....

3suns

here man dont fret bout it. im quite similar. im totally straight acting, dont find camp guys in any way attractive, love heavy music, , never score when i go out on the scene guys just to many 'fags', have feck all in common with any of the gays i meet out. im 19.

but regards comin out, just do it. dont do this to yourself, you'll have mental breakdowns in a few years if you dont.for years i was freakin out about it, thinkin everyone would ditch me etc etc. but once i done it, i gained everyones respect and i had scumbags who'd have hated me in school come up to me, shake my hand and tell me fair play. its a great feelin and trust me it needs to be done.

trust me on this one, nobody actaully gives a crap, and those that do wont have the balls to say it to ya. and if your straight acting you'll have no worries about gay bashing or people on the street shoutin abuse at ya. ive come out to my family, friends, work people and seriously, no one cares.

i wouldnt worry about anything else until ya come out cuz its all a process.

nowadays, as much as i dont really like the whole scene thing, i do enjoy it and have made great friends out there. try the likes of queerid.com, gaire.com, belongto and trust me, they'll destroy any assumtions you have of gay men, camp guys, the entire gay thing itself wont seem scary at all. i enjoy headin out to the george now, and no i havent been morphed into a fairy

you'll be grand man

PM me if ya like

schween

TheTrooper wrote: »

You ask, why do I think I'm gay. Well basically because I don't find women attractive!

Although that leaves me with the 10% of guys that I do find attractive, and of them lets say 10% are gay, and of that 10%, 100% are in the closet! So that ends up as, wait, let me work this out.... a 0% chance of finding a guy!

I say that because in my experience, any guy that I know to be gay, i.e. that is out, is your stereotypical camp guy. "Straight acting" guys do not come out of the closet. And if they do come out, they're being very quiet about it!

I guess what I'm looking for, and I know this will sound very shallow but, it's just to be with a guy. I have never been with a woman, even kissing, never mind a guy!

I don't think I'm the sort of guy for relationships. Thinking about it now, even if I was straight, I couldn't imagine myself being with the one person for any length of time!

The real problem I guess is that I have no one to relate to. I don't know any "straight acting" guys (If you guys hate that term, can you suggest any other way of putting it?) so I can't really talk to anyone that knows what I'm going through. Sure I've got the internet, but it's not the same as physically talking to someone about it.

I'm sure someone is going to recommend a LGBT soceity or something, but thats also a no-go for me. If I was seen at one of those meetings by any one I know, then I'd be outed, and thats not something I want right now. Plus, the idea of sitting around drinking cups of tea with a bunch of gay guys discussing our feelings seems, well, gay!

Thats another thing (I'm rambling now). I always say that kind of thing. I say "Thats gay" or "What a fag" etc. I don't know why, seeing as I'm gay myself. And if other people say it to me or anyone else, I have no problem with it. Yet I always read and hear about gay guys being so offended by it. I dunno. Just thought I'd mention it!

Also, the idea of being with a guy seems wrong to me. It's like having two pieces of a jigsaw that don't fit and you say, feck it, I'll make it fit! Crazy analagy, I know, but I hope you get my meaning. I'm also predicting more "coming terms with your sexuality". I'm sure most of you guys are fine with your sexuality, and I've no problem with that, it's just this is what I feel. It's not because of the way I was brought up, religion or even society, it's just how it is.

I hope you can make sense of whatever points I was trying to get across here!

OP there have been and are lots of lads in the same boat.

I know a few "straight acting" out lads and camp lads. The "straight actors " are just not as noticeable.

As for saying "that's gay". I always say "thats gay" and "you gay cnut!" and I couldn't care less if others do. Although it's great craic to pretend your deeply offended and pull the p*ss for a minute when someone doesn't know your gay.

I used to go to LGBT group but it just wasn't for me. I didn't really mix well. You don't have to go to one, but you might like it...and I doubt it'll be tea they drink, more like booze.

I wouldn't be too worried. I know that's easy to say when your out the other side of trying to figure things out. I used to be worried that I wasn't camp and why I didn't like Britney, celebrity gossip, tight tshirts etc like some of my friends but I eventually settled with just being me. I don't fit in anywhere and I really don't care either. I keep getting people sayin "Fcuk off, your not gay!", "But you don't look or seem gay". Don't worry if your not the stereotype, there are plenty that aren't.

As for thinking that being with a lad is wrong...only you can sort that.

Untense

I wouldn't want a relationship with a guy because, well, it wouldn't sit well with me

Also, the idea of being with a guy seems wrong to me.

....

I guess what I'm looking for, and I know this will sound very shallow but, it's just to be with a guy

You don't sound shallow. You do sound confused, which is perfectly fair. If you are attracted to guys yet have feelings of revulsion at the thought of being with a guy, it's bound to create confusion.

I would never go to a gay bar or club, basically because I like ordinary pubs and clubs!

...

If I was seen at one of those meetings by any one I know, then I'd be outed, and thats not something I want right now.

Sounds like you're trying to rationalise your fear of being outed. You would never go to a gay bar, simply because you like normal ones? I don't think so.

...if other people say it to me or anyone else, I have no problem with it. Yet I always read and hear about gay guys being so offended by it.

It's just a word, not every gay person is offended by it.

I'm also predicting more "coming terms with your sexuality". I'm sure most of you guys are fine with your sexuality, and I've no problem with that, it's just this is what I feel. It's not because of the way I was brought up, religion or even society, it's just how it is.

You think you're the only gay guy who ever thought the idea of being with a guy or having a relationship with a guy felt wrong? You'd be amazed how many have difficulty with it. It is how it is. But that doesn't mean it'll always be that way. People who are fine with their sexuality now, had to go through the same thing that you did at some point. Self-acceptance isn't always something you simply have or don't have.

TheTrooper

Well I've read through all your replies and I appreciate the advice.

First off, I have no plans on coming out. I know you'll say that I should, but I don't really want that. Reason being is that I am happy the way things are at the moment, just that I don't know where I fit in, but telling my friends and family that I'm gay really won't help that.

I'm pretty sure that I'll never come out, well in the forseeable future anyways. I very much lack confidence, and something like this I'd never be able to do, and if I did do it, I wouldn't feel the same around my friends and family. I'd believe that they'd think of me differently, secretly dislike me etc. Yes, I've a low self-esteem, but hey, what can you do!

So where do straight acting guys meet other straight acting guys? I know some of you suggested gaydar (which seems to be full of camp guys and old men) and other sites, but are they really the places where you meet guys?

Just the idea of meeting some randomer off the internet is as a bit disturbing!

Then again, if I went to the George or something, it's full of camp guys, or is that something I'm wrong about?

3suns

the george isnt ful of camp guys but yeah they are the ones that stand out. the likes of pantibar have less teenage queens in it.

i know you say you are happy with the way things are but your clearly not. i had all the exect same feelings as you, no one will like me, they'll pretend to like but secrelty think im a sap, i dont think being with guys is right or normal... this is all down to the fact your not out and have no gay life. without being out or having a gay social life, gay becomes a very distant and unrealistic thing. "people hate what the fear and do not understand" typa thing.

its only when ya go out on the scene that ya realise that gay bars aint full of dark rooms with evryone bitchin bout fatty over there, raving bout britney and molesting each other.

as you said youd never go to one as youlike normal bars. how can you say you wouldnt like it if youve never been?? and whats a normal bar? every bar has a certain theme or vibe to it so effectivley there is no normal bar.

youve built gay into this big scary thing that you never wanna face. its not scary, theres no difference between a gay and striaght bar (except that you will never see a fight break out in a gay bar =])
i know the whole gay thing can be a bit cheesy and cringe worthy at times but meh, id find the likes of 21s and other dismal clubs cheesier.

im gonna make one point to ya regards not comin out, why do ya think the suicide rate is so high in this country in young men??

im not sayin all young suicides are down to this but i could safely bet they hold a large chunk of it.

its not in any way a good idea to stay closeted. you will forever have a nagging fear in the back of your head. you'll be convinved everyone around you will drop ya if they know your gay. how do you expect to build good relationships if you always have this parnoid thought in your head? you will never know trust which is a vital thing to have in life.

and i know sex isnt everything but waht ya gonna do? **** gets boring and girls are no use to ya? its not good to supress your self in any way, and sexual desires are physical as well as mental so supressing them will have a major effect on your mind and body.

to put it simply, dont screw up your mental health, your friendships etc simply cuz your gay. your better of comin out sooner than later. your friend wont drop ya if they are your mates, and if they do, its easier to gain new friends at 20 than it is at 40.
of course people need time to adjust to this new revelation but they'll get over it.

dont worry bout your family till much later time. im sure you have at least one friend you can confide in? a girl even to make it that lil bit easier.

i know its easy for me to say , sittin on the other side but i was like you as recent as last year. sort yourself out man, your not doin anyone any favours.

if your mates respect and love ya, they'll understand what a step it is to come out and will only have more respect for ya as a result

sorry for ranting but im kinda annoyed at ya, in a nice way of course

Cabbage Brained

Maybe if you grow up a bit you'll learn where you fit in. You seem to think you know everything about the world without actually experiencing anything. You remind me of myself when I was about 14. Get out of your shell and experience the world, you'll soon find that we don't all fit into the neat little boxes that you'd like us to.

DubArk

Well if you can’t respect yourself how the feck could you respect anyone else! I agree that you need to get out there and see life and grow up a bit and stop with the, I can’t meet guys like me…… your all so gay!!

How GAY! :P

You haven’t been out there ,so how can you meet guys like you!!??

I mean if your under the impression that the George is a true reflection of what gay people are all about, you really need to think again.

Most gay/bi guys go through the same thing when they start to come to terms with their sexuality and you’re just going through the same thing too, maybe you’re not as unique as you first thought! (I did!)

Just be yourself… calm down and think things through. There isn’t a rule book that says you have to act a certain way and who you should fancy.

Your young and if you can’t find what your looking for here, get up off you straight acting arse and see the world and find what you are looking for.

Jigsaws have many different shapes and if you are gay…. you’ll soon find a way to complete the picture.

Good luck.

Untense

TheTrooper wrote: »

First off, I have no plans on coming out. I know you'll say that I should, but I don't really want that. Reason being is that I am happy the way things are at the moment, just that I don't know where I fit in, but telling my friends and family that I'm gay really won't help that.

You fit in anywhere you want to fit in.
What is your relationship with your friends and family? Do you feel you fit in with them? If you do, why are you asking where you fit in ?
If you don't , why don't you?

I very much lack confidence, and something like this I'd never be able to do, and if I did do it, I wouldn't feel the same around my friends and family. I'd believe that they'd think of me differently, secretly dislike me etc. Yes, I've a low self-esteem, but hey, what can you do!

I can understand the fear, I was exactly the same. Except I didn't shrug my shoulder and say, 'sure what can ya do?'. Really, you should take some responsibility for yourself.
You can do plenty for low self esteem, such as challenging the negative convictions you have of yourself. If you shrug and think, 'oh well, that's me', you will probably always be as you are now.

So where do straight acting guys meet other straight acting guys? I know some of you suggested gaydar (which seems to be full of camp guys and old men) and other sites, but are they really the places where you meet guys?

I met my ex in work. You're not going to want to hear this, but it's true: we wouldn't have been together for the years we were had I not been out. He was in the closet and 'straight-acting' at the time. We were at a night out and he offered to buy me a drink and things went from there.
You can meet guys anywhere, but if ye're both in the closet, nothing will happen for obvious reasons.

Just the idea of meeting some randomer off the internet is as a bit disturbing!

Not necessarily. If you get to know them online first you will get a good idea of how they are in real life. I've made some great friends online. It's hard work to find them but it can pay off.

Then again, if I went to the George or something, it's full of camp guys, or is that something I'm wrong about?

Well done for second-guessing your prejudices. Seriously.
Yes there are of course lots of camp guys at gay bars. But there are also not-camp guys among them. Are you really turned off gay bars because of the camp guys or is it that you're afraid you'll be outed?
If it's really because you're afraid of being outed, then this whole thread is getting really circular, because nothing will change until you do.
If you're genuinely turned off gay bars because there are, among the not-camp guys, a lot of camp guys there, you should really be asking yourself, "Why am I bothered by them so much" ?
When I first went out to a gay bar I was nervous around the ultra-camp fellas. When I asked myself why, I realised I was terrified I would be seen by those around me to be somehow 'similar 'to the camp guys. When I got over that I didn't care anymore.

I have to say everything you've said sounds vaguely familiar, since I went through a lot similar. The one thing that bothers me is the way your posts reek of resignation, as if nothing about you can ever be different.

Since there doesn't seem to be anyone else around who you would open up enough to to do it for you, I really would recommend you give yourself a good kick up the arse and stop making excuses for your fears.

Rick_

Just to put my two pennies in...

I'm in the same position mostly as yourself and have many of the same feelings as you and 3suns have/had.

Not attracted to camp, quite 'straight acting', don't like pop/dance, don't want to tell anyone/everyone for fear of things changing. To be honest, at some point, they HAVE to change, otherwise you'll just be living a lie and the only person who's gonna be miserable, hurt and full of regrets is YOU.

OK, you don't have to go screaming from the hilltops that you're a poof or anything, but seriously, you need to go out there and find some gay friends whether online or offline and just get chatting to them. Don't have to meet up with them, it's just for chat. The more you do it the more comfortable you will be and then meeting up maybe a possibility.

I'm pretty sure that you saying that you couldn't see yourself being with a guy and all is only because you haven't experienced it yet. Once you do, then you will feel more at ease and be more open and willing. Then comes your confidence and then come the guys, as guys love confidence! Maybe then you will be able to make a more concious desicion about hether to tell any friends or family about you. Believe me, unless your parents are extremely strict religious types or your friends are hoodie wearing chav louts then I doubt many people will actually care. Only the ones you know and trust can be told, no-one else has to know unless you choose to tell them, and they should feel honoured that a friend has the trust int them to tell them something so personal. I'm sure they will give you the respect you deserve when you tell them (and also girls love a gay friend, someone to use as a shoulder to cry on and bitch/gossip with and also give them fashion tips! )

Honestly, you need to have a good talk with some of us on here and try to expand your horizons and get out there. The longer you leave it the more you will regret it when you finally do end up doing it or not doing it and realising that you've wasted a hell of a lot of oppertunities. Maybe gay sites aren't the best thing to start on yet, just chatting to some other gay board members here is a good start, maybe it then can move on to MSN chats and e-mails and then in time if you felt comfortable, a meet up for a coffee/beer just for a chat, no expectations and no pressure, just chat. We could arrange a gay beers or something!

Just ease yourself into it gently... (EDIT: oops!, just re-read that! )

Feel free to PM me about anything if you would like to chat in PM's or on MSN. I'm sure any of the other posters in this thread wouldn't mind you messaging them either.

TheTrooper

One of you asked why wouldn't I go to a gay bar. Was it because I am afraid to be outed or is it because I'm bothered by camp guys? Well to be honest it's mostly being bothered by camp guys, no offence.

I genuinely dislike camp guys! I'm not being prejudice or anything, it's just that the way they act just really annoys me. A man is supposed to be manly in my eyes. You know that "What the Buck" youtube thing? Man do I hate that guy. I just want to punch him in the face! Or Alan Carr etc.

It may seem that I hate gay people, but thats not true. I have no problem with, eh, (trying to think of straight acting gay guys), Ian McKellen and Simon Amstell. (Actually, I decided to google gay celebrities and was actually shocked to see that Simon Amstell is gay!)

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but thats the way I feel! I'd say I'm alone on that one as a gay guy...

You guys keep saying to come out, but in all honesty, it's never going to be the same after you come out. No matter what, you're going to be seen differently. Even when I heard a friend of mine was gay, I had a different opinion of him, not negative, but I dunno, I maybe tiptoe around gay topics, or find it awkward chatting to him alone!

Change doesn't always mean good things. I've heard many times of guys coming out and then being disowned by their families and losing some of their closest friends over time. You might say "Ah who needs them anyways, they didn't accept the real you" or "they weren't your real friends" or whatever, but even still, you still care for them. And another thing, if you do come out, there is no going back!

Can't you be gay without telling everyone you know? Whats it of they're business anyways? Why should I tell them?

PetKing

Wow!! Ive been put in my place!! There are more gay guys out there than the ones you seem to dislike I can assure you. But let me say, Im gay, Im out, and I aint the slightest bit camp. I dont make a point of making it a big deal to announce it, but I wont hide it, or shy away from it.

Your still a young guy, and at 20 I imagine there is the transition period of ending school and moving on to College, Uni, full-time job, etc. You're going to meet allot of new people, and I honestly think it will be easier for you if you allow yourself not to feel hindered with the idea of shying away from someone if you think they might be gay, or what others might think of you by association.

Like allot of people, you have a specific type, I too thought it would be diufficult to meet guys because my tastes were too specific, but that guy is out there dude, and he's got friends too.

PetKing

Was typing my last post when you posted. Just read through what you said. It is true that you dont have to come out, I had an ex who was in the closet, very manly and all that, nobody had a clue abougt him.. but then again, he lived out the country and had to commute to the city to meet me discretely, he never wanted to meet my mates (even if they didnt know him) because they would know he was gay, he used to manage a football team and lived in the fear that they would know, and he just couldn't face telling his family, thought it would kill his parents.

In a way that made up my mind about how I wanted to live with myself, I knew no matter what, I couldn't live this secret second life, tip-toeing about around everyone I knew, and as cliched as it is I couldn't live with myself.

By the age of 20, all my mates had girlfriends or were known to be having sex, and I was a bit of a conundrum for them having been with no-one. In the end, one mate copped it and told me indirectly, 'take all the bad **** in your life, and just drop it'. Now that's easy to say, and hard to do, but it helped me make my mind up about how I wanted to live with being gay.

Reading your last post, I get the impression you do have some hang ups on the notion of being gay, the mention of your gay friend and how you kind of feel different or tip toe around him. For me, i kind of layed down the law with them all by setting the tone, we'd all slag each other and Id come out with something like 'go fcuk yourself, you a**ebandit!'... there would be gasps from everyone, but they get what you imply, tip-toeing only highlights that you can be offended in some way, and honestly... honestly... does it offend you? It doesn't offend me. I guessing not in your case, in that you call things or people 'gay' or 'fag'. So do I, so do all my mates.

I suppose the point Im trying to make here is that, for friends who dont care that you are gay, (and they mostly all say they aren't at first), over time it becomes less and less of a novelty (same for yourself).

My advice (and that's all it is), would be to try and become comfortable in your own skin, with who you are, how you want to live your life, etc. There's plenty of time to chase that man you want.

Cabbage Brained

TheTrooper wrote: »

You guys keep saying to come out, but in all honesty, it's never going to be the same after you come out. No matter what, you're going to be seen differently. Even when I heard a friend of mine was gay, I had a different opinion of him, not negative, but I dunno, I maybe tiptoe around gay topics, or find it awkward chatting to him alone!

It's only closeted gay guys that act like this around guys that are out. Straight people don't give a fcuk, honestly.

dny123456

TheTrooper wrote: »

I hope you can make sense of whatever points I was trying to get across here!

To be honest, it doesn't really matter if we make any sense of what you are saying. Does it make sense to you?

For what it's worth before I came out, I had fairly similar feelings. I know now it was because I was not comfortable with the idea of being gay and did not want to accept that of myself. Still only attracted to very specific types of people, girls and guys, but definitely wider than it used to be. I don't think you are that unusual.... and Brad Pitt is a minger!

needhelpguy

Cheesy question but how many gay people here have found love? Real love, not the "i want to bang you" love (i.e. lust).

Like The Trooper, I am having similar feelings and doubts. This is one of my main fears if I came out. One of the other main ones is if I was out, I cannot see myself ever really settling down forever with one person like traditional hetrosexual couples, because I simply haven't see many examples of it in gay couples. I don't want to be that sad 50 year old single guy prowling a gay bar looking for a bit of youth secretly knowing I'll probably die alone.

Ok bad example but you know what I mean. Another stereotype perhaps, but I have seen little evidence that homosexual couples are/can be as successful long term as straight couples.

Rick_

needhelpguy, you only see that because all the gay websites are mostly for guys looking a fcuk. Try Gay Parship for meeting guys who aren't looking to shag around, we do exist cos I'm one of them. I don't do the shag around thing and would love to be in a LTR with the one guy and live a wonderful life together. Just a shame that the vast majority of gay men think with their dicks. Sadly.

Just don't tar all of us with the same brush when it comes to forming opinions. Same goes to you Trooper. Just get talking to other guys and you will son find yourself loosening up and getting into it more. It is a scary prospect but it HAS to be done. The longer you leave it then the more of a realisation it will be that "I should have done this ages ago". You don't have to come out and tell anyone, but making contact and at least trying to have some sort of a gay life, whether it's just chatting to other gay guys or meeting up with them, is something you need to do, for your own sake.

I'm the straightest gay man you'll meet. I would consider myself to be quite straight in terms of mannerisms, desires for life and attitude, the only thing is that I prefer to do anything sexual with another guy. Everyone that I have told were shocked when I said it but none of them cared. Some family know too, but not my parents, again, no-one gave a damn. They only wanted whats best for me and as long as I was happy, then they were. You AREN'T happy in your current situation, and maybe telling people won't make you that much happier, but if you do tell someone then that's one less person to feel awkward around and you can chat to a bit more about subjects you wern't comfortable about before. The more you do that the less nervous you will feel. It ain't gonna happen overnight but if you don't at least try then you will be stuck in this self-hating state for a long time and you only have yourself to blame, and you WILL regret it if you never do anything about it or leave it until it's far too late...

Again, if you want to chat personally, feel free to PM me or ask for my MSN details and we can chat on there if you like.

Creadak

Okay, so my input stuffs....

*thinks of way to word it all...*

Let's start with my story.

I've been there, the whole, I'm gay but not attracted to anyone around me.
Somethings you should know about me are:
MY SEXUALITY IS FLUID
I'M 17, NEARLY 18
I'M A METAL LOVER
AND
I'M NOT STEREOTYPICAL



About 3 years ago I realised that I'm not straight, that was hard, as I'd been teased about it since I was 7 (just the usual schoolyard crap really). For two years I kept it inside, telling noone while I was still at school and then at college noone gave a ****. I just casually mention, "oh he's hot", or "she's quite pretty" and no one bats an eyelid.

But, in the two years that I spent hiding this thing away, I became more and more mentally unstable, to the point where I had to admit to myself, that, yes I was depressed and no, the 15 scars on my arms and one big one on my leg that says "LIES" were not just for fun. I had to fight the depression on my own because, was already hiding the scars from my parents, and I couldn't face the shame of telling them I was depressed. I forced myself into a circle of self degradation that has only leveled off in the last few months and for the first time in seventeen years, I am truly happy with m new friends in college, who accept me for me.

You may see the whole coming out thing as a bit scary, but even one person who had known how I was feeling could've helped me stop cutting earlier(its not easy to go swimming anymore without people seeing the scars ). Even the gay friend you talked about would more than likely be extremely helpful to you. Coming out isn't supposed to be a "I'm here, I'm queer etc...." thing, its supposed to be a gradual process to help you build a support network around yourself. My only regret about life so far is not building that network sooner.

On the subject of your gay friend, how did your other friends react when they found out, because then you know how they'll react if you were to come out. Its all about gradual stuff. I don't think anyone one here has said that it has to happen overnight.

Anyways, that's my bit of input. Sorry about the repeated mentions of coming out, but I see the same sort of thing in you that I saw in myself a few years back. And I really don't want anyone to go through what I went through if I can help in anyway.

Craig

Cabbage Brained

needhelpguy wrote: »

Cheesy question but how many gay people here have found love? Real love, not the "i want to bang you" love (i.e. lust).

Like The Trooper, I am having similar feelings and doubts. This is one of my main fears if I came out. One of the other main ones is if I was out, I cannot see myself ever really settling down forever with one person like traditional hetrosexual couples, because I simply haven't see many examples of it in gay couples. I don't want to be that sad 50 year old single guy prowling a gay bar looking for a bit of youth secretly knowing I'll probably die alone.

Ok bad example but you know what I mean. Another stereotype perhaps, but I have seen little evidence that homosexual couples are/can be as successful long term as straight couples.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055374921

You guys need to get out more, seriously. Life is short, you're a quarter of the way through it already. You're gay, and always will be. Deal with it or die unhappy.

Reflector

just a quick note on straight acting. How does one define this term. Someone who acts straight. But in reality what you claim is that you are masculine and a "real man". This term can mean many things but in my opinion maleness does not necessarily mean you don't prance around with a limp wrist and a lisp. Maleness involves being ambitious, self assured, confident, strong of body and or mind, cocky, independent.
Sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is not manly, it's self destructive and so many gay men waste time doing this. Spiralling into depression and sometimes even down the road of self harm. Everyone here is telling you to come out. they know what they are talking about as they have all been in a similar frame of mind before. It doesn't have to be to your parents. To a friend or even a councellor who is non-judgemental and is a professional. Be brave and begin the steps to acceptance. You already admit that you are gay so why not start on the path. Whatever you decide to do I hope that you find what you are looking for.

TheTrooper

Reflector wrote: »

just a quick note on straight acting. How does one define this term. Someone who acts straight. But in reality what you claim is that you are masculine and a "real man". This term can mean many things but in my opinion maleness does not necessarily mean you don't prance around with a limp wrist and a lisp. Maleness involves being ambitious, self assured, confident, strong of body and or mind, cocky, independent.

Well I would never have thought those to be male specific traits. Are you saying that you wouldn't associate abition, self assurance, confidence, independence etc. as traits women would have?

By straight acting I mean what you said: Not prancing around with a limp wrist and a lisp. So if a guy comes up to you, as camp as the day is long, wearing a dress and some make-up, yet had all the traits you described, you would still define that guy as manly?

Sort of straying from the topic at hand here though, sorry. I know what you guys are saying though. Coming out would relieve a load of stress, but you are right, I am afraid. Why shouldn't I be? Saying those three words "I am gay" would change my whole life. Now that sort of decision shouldn't be taken lightly!

If you knew what I was like, you'd know that I do not take risks, I have very little confidence and even thinking about coming out would probably drive me insane!

Maybe, if I take some of your advice, such as going to one of those meetings, or maybe PMing some of you, it might help me know where I fit in... eventually.

Rick_

Maybe it will, but you have to take the first step. No good everyone here telling you all this advice and then ignoring it or just saying "I can't".

YOU came here looking for help, no-one forced you - which shows that you do want to get out of the rut you're currently in, so any feelings of "I can't" or "I'm afraid" are just knee-jerk reactions due to pre-conceived notions you already have in your head. You might not have the confidence now, but in time you will. You just need to take the first step. You can PM me anytime and chat if you like.

All it takes is the first step....

Reflector

TheTrooper wrote: »

Well I would never have thought those to be male specific traits. Are you saying that you wouldn't associate abition, self assurance, confidence, independence etc. as traits women would have?

By straight acting I mean what you said: Not prancing around with a limp wrist and a lisp. So if a guy comes up to you, as camp as the day is long, wearing a dress and some make-up, yet had all the traits you described, you would still define that guy as manly?

They are not male specific but to me they are definitely swayed more towards the male side. competitiveness is another one. Woman do have these charateristics as well but you may find that woman also have charateristics that men don't have quite in such abundance, empathy, compassion etc. But these are just cliches but it is also the same for gay men, all are different. Some are as you describe manly others are girly but this is just a superficial assesment of the person.

I have female friends who are very feminine in manner and dress yet their sense of humour and beer drinking ability is very manly. I think the more I learnt about myself I stopped defining people as much and I certainly blew away any stereotypes I had about gay men. Some of my friends are "camp" but this isn't something that I focus on. I focus on how kind, funny smart they are and that's how I judge them to be my friend.

The Trooper, you need to start helping yourself. Sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is not doing any good. Take control of your life. Learn to love the person you are. Being gay is irrevelant. It is just a small part of the pieces of your personality. You are not some character in a movie you have 20 years of life and experiences which make you the person you are today. Now I don't suggest to anyone that they launch themselves out of the closet with no thought.

How about you focus on getting yourself in a situation to be independant. Are you loving at home for examnple. One thing that really helped me was finishing college and becoming independant. Earning my own money and moving into a house with noone to answer to but myself. Try not to let being gay upset any of your ambitions. You have the right to anything you want to do as much as anyone else.


Also about coming out, I came out to my two oldest friends on a snowy new years eve when I was 17. I was ****ting it. But it started something I have never once regretted. I didn't post it in the local papers after that in fact I kept in under wraps still as I hadn't accepted it myself, but it did break that boundary.

Good Luck

superboy

OMG Brad Pitt is 45????? Jeez he's been around forever, I thought he was at least 60!!!
anyhoo, I am in a similar situation to the original poster. I am awfully "confused", and you know what, its Fantastic!!! I haven't a clue what i want, (or whom)!! I have kind of come out to a few friends lately. Its taken me a long while to get to this point. I wouldn't recommend coming out or whatever, with a big bang, but you must find a way to "break through" gradually. Try to find out if you really like what you think you like, or really don't like what you think you don't like.
There are loads in the same boat, trust me. Anyway, real friends will not treat you badly or desert you because of who you are. But i can understand your reluctance to "come out". I don't even know why i told my friends - Its none of their damn business who i fancy!!!

Don't know if this will help, or if i sound all weird??!!! anyway, here's a kiss for everyone! X Because ye are all wonderful!!

LegacyUser

I undersand the situation you find yourself in. However, you appear to view it in almost
entirely negative terms: e.g. 'I'm NOT like this. I DON'T like that, I CAN'T stand this or that', etc. And of course all this negativity seems to be directed to people you don't approve of. You say you don't fit in, yet you criticise other people who. I presume, don't feel they fit in either!
This show a lack of tolerance, I think. But it also shows what I believe to be to be two equally contradictory conditions in western society: a deep desire to fit into the social structure and an equally deep desire to be true to oneself. How you square this circle will depend on the choices you make in life. Good luck!