Post apocalypse...post your tips here

Cianos

After Kess made this point in the other thread, I think it's a good idea to think about the best ways to survive from the later stages of the apocalypse. The threat from other humans will gradually become far greater than the threat from zombies. There's no point in optimising your survival plans to avoid death from a Z, just to be shot in the back by some hungry fellow survivor.

My plan would be to keep my group size to an absolute minimum. Myself and 2 or 3 others or thereabouts. A large group may appear attractive in a safety-in-numbers type way, but I think this is just going to attract too much unwanted attention from roaming gangs. It's a lot harder to hide 20 people than 3, and chances are most of those 20 are going to need protection rather than providing protection.

My final group member would be a well trained dog. It will need extra attention, food and water, that some may think is better off given to a human, but the advantages of having a dog are many. It'll be the first to hear other people creeping about, will smell food, and can do a surprise attack from behind when I'm being held at gunpoint.

Redhairedguy

Plus, the whole guard dog thing is a bonus. Loud barking upon the arrival of any unknown.

And, though unconfirmed, it appears that canines are more likely to attract, but considerably less likely to be attacked by zombies when accompanied by humans. Great for causing a diversion.

"Go Fido, Keep 'em busy!!!"

Riddle101

(1)Get a big Vehicle I.E mobile Home or a Bus(Preferbly a Double Decker)

(2)Zero Tolerence- I won't let emotions get in the way, if someone is bitten and is unable to keep going then it is only suitable that they be put our of their misery before turning. One common mistake I notice in Zombie movies is someone always ends up risking the lives of his/her comrads because his emotions get the better of him/her. I.E A boyfriend/girlfriend getting bitten.

(3)Routine Check Ups- Another common mistake in zombie movies is someone always gets bitten and then hides it from the rest of the group, thus compromising their safety as well. Just to make sure nobody is hiding any wounds or bites, a routine check up must be done on all members of the group

(4)A survival group should be a minimum of no more then 6 people. too much people leads to a lot of problem and to some extent mutiny. 6 people is enough to hold our ground until we find away to end the plague. Preferably the group should consist of 1 Driver for the vehicle. 2 Fighters, for keeping the zombies away. 1 for cooking and cleaning(Preferably a woman), a headquarters needs someone to clean it up and cook for the rest of the group, 1 Medic/Doctor for performing the check ups as well as providing first aid and 1 Technictian for repairs and maintanence.

(5)Although there will be two fighters, everybody should be able to fight as well. Just like the army. Every soldier is a soldier first and a duty man second

(6)Nessesities should be as listed
(1)Food/Rations
(2)First Aid Kit
(3)Weapons- Guns, Throwing weapons(Cocktail molotovs, fireworks and bangers and anything that is hard like bricks), melee weapon should comprise of Baseball bat, hurling sticks, Iron Bars, Cricket Bats, Crowbars and anything that can be used from a relatively safe distance
(4)Clothes- Optional
(5)Maps of places- Don't want to be getting lost
(6)Fuel and Petrol- Need to keep the petrol tank full
(7)Safety Gear- Optional. Helmets, pads, boots(preferbly steel toe capped) and gloves

These are my tips

Redhairedguy

Riddle101 wrote: »

1 for cooking and cleaning(Preferably a woman),

(4)Clothes- Optional

So you're a sexist nudist?



Sign me up! :pac:

ScumLord

I plan to have at least 100 survivors in my group. This will be made up of people I know well, and people that know the surrounding countryside like the back of their hands. All will be from the town I'm in now.

We will have 3 heavily fortified buildings 2 capable of maintaining vehicles in a protected environment, and manufacturing weapons. Other buildings will be keep for housing and watchtowers.

The major draw for zombies and ferals will be the supermarket which will be one of the heavily fortified buildings, although it's unlikely anything could make it to this building without us knowing it will be where we can engage any enemy that comes into town as they'll quickly be surrounded, it's car park is open ground surrounded by walls.

Cianos

ScumLord wrote: »

I plan to have at least 100 survivors in my group. This will be made up of people I know well, and people that know the surrounding countryside like the back of their hands. All will be from the town I'm in now.

We will have 3 heavily fortified buildings 2 capable of maintaining vehicles in a protected environment, and manufacturing weapons. Other buildings will be keep for housing and watchtowers.

The major draw for zombies and ferals will be the supermarket which will be one of the heavily fortified buildings, although it's unlikely anything could make it to this building without us knowing it will be where we can engage any enemy that comes into town as they'll quickly be surrounded, it's car park is open ground surrounded by walls.

I don't think it's realistic to expect to be able to stay in the same place indefinitely. Eventually all food is going to run out, and feeding 100 people is a massive task. Unless you have means to grow crops a plenty and have a supply of fresh uncontaminated water, I don't see how a camp of 100 people can survive very long. There is the option of sending scouting groups out (who have to be screened air-lock style upon their return) to find supplies, but eventually the travelling distance required (and in turn the risk involved) will get greater and greater as time goes by.

Kromdar

i'll have to agree with scumlord there. an army, albeit resource hungry, is the best defense. of course your fortress will have to match the size of your army, and i daresay most country villages could be held by 100 or so people. [divide the actual population by 20? 2000/20=100?]

anyway. some thoughts:

- on average, the bigger your group the more skills you accumulate, and hence can work towards reclaiming rather than just surviving

-finding followers will be difficult, especially given the 'i only want a team of 4' mentality. realistically, the 'left4dead' apporach will only get you to safety: who is actually going to provide that safety? an army you say? like my army? :pac:

- like any properly organised army, rationing and resource management will be vital. with the global economy gone, factories and farms inoperable, there will be a limited amount of anything anywhere. in the opening days/weeks we'll probably realise that on a 100 zombies to 1 survivor ratio, that there's tons of supplies and equipment going unused. but waste them too quickly and it'll be back to eating moss and using sharp sticks.

-the pro-survivor mentality has to be taken into account. as far as i know, the irish army has 3 planes, and about a dozen helicopters. assuming that the rest of the world is going through the same ordeal, we're not getting an airlift any time soon, so reclamation is the best outcome. a pro-survivor group will have to establish a base somewhere and keep it secure.

tl:dr: we need an army.

ScumLord

See my town (parish pop 900) is slightly off the beaten track. We will have some amount of time to prepare and with scumlords plan for victory all ready thought out it will just be a matter of putting it into action. The town is surrounded by farmland. Cattle, sheep and even a few vegetable farmers. All these farms are also a vast network of reserve fuel supplys. One of the heavy fortified buildings I mentioned has a natural spring nearby. Local farmers know of many more.

We should avoid a major outbreak like in the cities. As long as everyone stays in doors a local militia could patrol and possibly block off roads into the town. Buildings could be prepared, food sources controlled and rationed. Eventually hordes of zombies would make their ways out of the city but if they're all tied up trying to get into noisy, smelly hideouts in the major cities we could have months.

If we had months we could think out ways of effectively dealing with hundreds of slow moving, half dead people in an efficient way.

Redhairedguy

Defense is often the best offense...

Gimme a rifle, a perch and plenty of ammo. I'll guard your damn cattle and hens.

GavRedKing

The only problem I can see with all this is the fact that when an outbreak occurs your probably going to be far from your possible defensive locations. I for one would love to gather a group as much as possible that were willing to work and put in the effort it would take to survive, because realistically unless you live in a castle, with farm animals and the ability to grow crops and have a source of water you will have to travel.

I would like to fortify 2 buildings in close proximity to each other so if one was one was to be breached we would have second fall back option to get our bearings and decide a course of action. My ideal group would be 10 people that understood what it would take and have the mentality to get out of this situation.

Every team member would have a roll, even if somebody wasnt skilled, everybody needs to understand what they have to do. Living in the suburbs of Cork City getting to someplace to hide and setup s survivor group would be difficult unless you were organised within the first 12 hours max of the outbreak.

Redhairedguy

You'd have to work very fast to get your group together as most likely phone services would cease 4 hours into a major outbreak depending on how many truck drivers accidentally crash into pylons.

Jonsb22

I say kill um all......Even yourself just to be on the safe side!

Jonsb22

Always keep a fat guy in the group . . . .just in case ya need too push someone over to get away.

Redhairedguy

Jonsb22 wrote: »

Always keep a fat guy in the group . . .

Or an 'alternatively ethnic' person. Always the first to die in horror movies...;)

Kess73

Redhairedguy wrote: »

Or an 'alternatively ethnic' person. Always the first to die in horror movies...;)

Or a Star Trek extra wearing the red uniform top.

S.I.R

like most everything in life i work best alone, screw a group, dogs etc, just a waste of time....


no guns needed, somethign heavy and blunt is all ill ever need.

Unsinnig

I'd have to say that a bloody large machete is always the thing to put at the top of any "must have" list. Your man Ray Mears always has one to cut things up, chop things down and build stuff up, and I'd trust his advice over that of Bear Grylls.

That said, it's also a great weapon to defend yourself with. Before the zombies even get near you, I guarantee you'll have every skanger in your area trying to nick all your gear from you (they tend to try, even without zombie infestations). As with dealing with zombies, there are basic steps you can take to ascertain whether to attack or not. I follow the formula "Hoodie+White Trainers+Excelsior+'Wassa Storeeeeeeee???'=Skanger", therefore I hack your man's head off before he tries to steal my stash of cheap dutch lager in a gold can. Very similar in demeanour to a zombie, as you can well see. Ahem... moving on

degrassinoel

hoarding and looting will cause massive problems long term, especially with medicinal supplies.

Tinned foods usually have an extremely long shelf life, expect factories and warehouses to be raided within one week as most other foods will have gone off by then.

Farms and rural areas would seem like the safest areas to survive in, however this could also be a common thought of those in cities and suburban areas, mass migrations could cause another minor Z outbreak. If not an outbreak, infighting or banditry could be a major concern for those fleeing the cities.

Within a month of the emergency most if not all shops/chemists/factories will have been raided or fortified by the military or whatever is left of civilization.
(wars over cans of dogfood. (cant remember what thats from?)
Black-Market trading and bartering will be common and quickly seen as fairtrading.

If a national government is still established, rebellion, rioting, and coups(sp?) will all be commonplace, the country will be fragmented in survivor pockets most likely with their own form of governments or working through a spokesman for the national government.

Small Local governments will generally work provided there is a council or single strong leader. This could also be completely disaterous if bad survival decisions are made and no longterm survival strategy is taken.

Large groups of bandits/raiders/etc.. will work in the same fashion albeit with less or no regard for other living humans -survival of the fittest.
Expect these groups to be very large and well armed.

Also, dont expect a madmax style of road warrior(s), as all the petrol and diesel will have run out or been hoarded by the end of the first month.
Petrol and diesel generators will have way more priority than vehicles.
No cars, no trucks, no buses.
Lots of bicycles though

Mahatma coat

Diesel is a rather interesting problem, its reasonably easy to make yer own diesel, as in Process vegetable oild so tht it dosent Feck yer engine after prolonged useage, Thats what I'll be doing, We'll save the Petrol for the chainsaws, everything else is Diesel at the Farm

Sticky_Fingers

I plan to have at least 100 survivors in my group. This will be made up of people I know well, and people that know the surrounding countryside like the back of their hands. All will be from the town I'm in now.

With a large group like that comes the danger of infighting which could be disastrous. Also who is going to be in charge, sorry but with such a group it probably won't be you and if it is, you have to put up with all the wasteful effort people will put into toppling you or jockeying for position. You may set up some sort of counsel but this will be pretty weak since it will only be able to govern by consensus and compromise, two things you don't want in an emergency.

What happens if the council decided that they should let in friends that could possibly be infected or even if they are not they will probably be a drain on your meager resources. You know that it's insane to risk the whole group in order to save a few but the councilors may not be willing or hardhearted enough to make the tough calls. You at least need a strongman type leader and this could be dangerous in such a large group since it would more than likely lead to corruption, favoritism and abuse of power.

I feel the optimal group would be tight knit group of about 20, with a strong leader who is respected but who also shows respect.

Diesel is a rather interesting problem, its reasonably easy to make yer own diesel, as in Process vegetable oild so tht it dosent Feck yer engine after prolonged useage, Thats what I'll be doing, We'll save the Petrol for the chainsaws, everything else is Diesel at the Farm Today 02:31

A valid point but the more concerning aspect of fuel is that petrol will eventually go bad and fairly quickly too. The petrol in your cars tank is only good for about a year to 18 months and after that it will more than likely be useless, fixing agents are available though that prolongs its life for a bit longer.

Diesel is the only way to go when considering generators or vehicles post TSHTF. It lasts longer than petrol, gives better MPG and as stated you can make it yourself with vegetable oil and a bit of lye.

Mahatma coat

Ah but it wouldnt be One large group it would be 4-6 Small groups, with a fair bit of overlap between them to avoid extreme factions, there would be Family units, and neighbouring households.

scumlord is right about larger numbers, at 100+ there is a community, food security being the only limitation, but Hey We'll be at My farm, in one of the more fertile regions of Australia, in the 19th century when there was a Much bigger Logging industry this area could sustain thousands of people in relativley small areas.

In my opinion the danger point in numbers would be between 30 and 70 this would be the scenario most likely to fracture and turn on itself.

Also think about it for a sec Lads, your Colony may well end up being the last outpost of humanity, AFAIK you need a minimum of 32 seperate Genetic paterns to avoid the problems asscossiated with inbreeding poppin up a few Generations later.

wouldnt you be fair Pissed off if you went to all that effort lived to be a Grandparent and then discovered that the next generation had serious congenital diseases due to your lack of foresight

Scrambled egg

An interesting thread.

Tbh I have no clue of what ill do. With a bit of luck I might try and hook up with a group of survivors. Its unlikely I will be the leader , due to my youth and naivety, but ill follow orders.

Travel in convoy through towns and cities looking for other survivors with peaceful intentions. Encourage unity amongst the survivors and get some system of law and order established among a walled community , such as the Phoenix Park etc , plenty of land with the potential of farming and choke points for defense , such as gate ways. Then as the community grows , send out people as emissary to other groups of survivors encouraging unity for the common good.

Supplies will need to be gotten by any means necessary. All are welcome to join the effort to re-establish order and to re-claim the island. They will merge with us and pull their weight in the community. Any group of survivors who refuse to join our community and stand in the way of progress will be destroyed and their supplies requisitioned. Harsh but fair IMO , we're trying to rebuild the country , we can't have people getting in the way of progress for petty reasons in the grand scheme of things.

All who join the community are entitled to food , water and safety. Dissent will not be tolerated and neither will crime of any sort. This is starting to sound like communism , am I a communist at heart I wonder ?:o

Anyhows , thats it , feel free to rip it to shreds if you want

messymess

ScumLord wrote: »

I plan to have at least 100 survivors in my group. This will be made up of people I know well, and people that know the surrounding countryside like the back of their hands. All will be from the town I'm in now.

We will have 3 heavily fortified buildings 2 capable of maintaining vehicles in a protected environment, and manufacturing weapons. Other buildings will be keep for housing and watchtowers.

The major draw for zombies and ferals will be the supermarket which will be one of the heavily fortified buildings, although it's unlikely anything could make it to this building without us knowing it will be where we can engage any enemy that comes into town as they'll quickly be surrounded, it's car park is open ground surrounded by walls.

Supermarket! Great idea! Someone should make a zombile film about that




I think the dog is a crazy idea. Picture this ... one Z is close enough to your residence ... dog barks ... more Z's ... more issues! Quietness is your friend! You shouldn't need someone to watch your back, that's the idea of a group!

I'd prefer to survive on my own to be honest. But maybe 2 - 3 max if it had to be that way.

Nemi

I am, of course, already forming my group for the post apocalpyse period. The ideal group size is about 30, which I believe is about the minimum you need to sustain a gene pool.

You need a strategy. I recommend Sun Tzu. In particular, I think you need to be guided by his principles that a small army is but booty for a large army if it fights recklessly and that the victorious army is the one where the commander applies rewards and punishments fairly.

Why am I telling you all this? Because I think its important that we share common understandings, so that we can broker agreements between our groups. Because trust will be a problem. Small groups will fear being enslaved by large groups. And that's a legitimate fear. Large groups may give in to the temptation to bully and dominate, and not see where their longer term interest lies.

There's more important stuff to be done right now. But I do recommend that, during the months when we'll all be besieged by the Zombie hordes, we read up on how States come into being. I'm not a great fan of Bobbitt's "Shield of Achilles". But he at least makes a reasonable stab of explaining how States emerge initially from strong individuals exerting power over groups in exchange for protection, right up to the impersonal legal entities that we know today (but will shortly be dissolving in the face of supernatural invasions). I recommend that, if you cannot stomach the full 900 pages, you at least print off the linked article and put it away to be read during a lull in your relentless struggles with the undead.

ScumLord

Mahatma coat wrote: »

In my opinion the danger point in numbers would be between 30 and 70 this would be the scenario most likely to fracture and turn on itself.

There have been studies into group sizes in primates depending on brain size. That study showed that the ideal/natural size of a human group would be 150. If you look at tribes and the likes of the Mormons in the states they naturally stay at around 150 people.

A natural mortality rate brought back by the lack of modern medicine would keep numbers in check.

helimachoptor

Nemi wrote: »

I am, of course, already forming my group for the post apocalpyse period. The ideal group size is about 30, which I believe is about the minimum you need to sustain a gene pool.

I thought i read somewhere before that anything under 250 will ultimately lead to mutations a few generations down the road but i may be wrong.